AES GRADING FOR STALLIONS

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or have had them overstamped by one of these stud books, so if that's not active support I do not know what is

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I am a little confused by this statement......how does this help Stud Books. So basically I could take in a horse bred on the Continent, have it overstamped with a UK society and then put it forward for the YHES/BEF Futurity
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And this promotes the UK Studbooks........
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I am not doubting the logic........just curious to know the thought process.........

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Your rush to judgement missed out the key phrase British bred. YHEs and the Futurity are now *strictly limited to BRITISH BRED animals*, precisely to stop this happening. Under EU competitiveness laws it is illegal to forbid any breeder of a foal born in the UK from registering it with any stud book approved in the EU, but by ensuring that animals with (or in the case of foals, destined for) KWPN, Oldenburg or now ZfDP papers have to have them overstamped by a British studbook before they can take part in the series, the Uk studbooks concerned )of which actually SSH is one) gets some money from it and the studbook in turn uploads the verified breeding data onto NED. IOW, it *should* be a loop-hole free system that actually generates money for the studbooks that you say that the BEF does not support in any way.

As regards the judges perhaps you should inform Jan Rogers of exactly who it was people were objecting to and why, especially as the panel is drawn fron a small, highly trained, number of people who shared the duties across the entire UK -- and whose results certainly seem in tune with quite a number of posters to this board.

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I know that the Association in Scotland has asked for funding from the BEF regarding gradings, in particular the Stallion grading, but nothing ever came back regardless of communications.............it was conveniently ignored...........

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How do you know it was conveniently ignored? Perhaps the problem lies with the SEA which insists that all things Scots should come through them and now (by its own request) represents *all Scottish organisations* on the BEF Board, I'm sure Muriel Colquhoun will explain it all if you ask her. Also, the BEF currently has only very limited funding for breeding at the moment (so much so that even the Futurity YHE series has to be entirely self-funding in all respects based on entries etc) so is certainly not able to provide financial support for gradings for any stud book anywhere. Perhaps the Scottish Dept of Agriculture or the Horserace Betting Levy Board would have been a better bet, or perhaps asking advice from the BWBS or SHBGB, two UK mother stduboks that seem to manage to fund well-run gradings at good venues without a huge number of entries.

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The same goes for the "Lead Body for Sports Horse Breeding".............we were also informed that this did not include Scotland as such..............so hardly supportive when we are really all part of the same ountry...........
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I agree we are, but since devolution everything in Scotland, including agricultural affairs, have to go a separate (but usually parallel) route. Hence the BHIC/BEF Strategy for the Horse was limited BY LAW to England and Wales only and Scotland was charged with producing its own strategy. Crazy I know (and I don't know whether it has come out yet) but perhaps this is something you should lay at Alex Salmond's feet not the BEF who (I think) would have loved to have a comprehensive strategy for the whole of the UK, especially with the 2012, where hopefully we will still have a united team!

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I thought the UKWPN was already set up, but that the running had moved back to Holland again.............but this was not what I was really getting at............
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I am very much an outsider here, but I gather (partly from reports of conversations with Johann Knapp and partly from what Pat Ruck has told me) control was taken back after the Solland fiasco and no daughter stud book (whose standards, grading judges etc must by EU law be identical -- and fed into -- that of the mother stud book) was considered until now becuase (for reasons of their own) Solland etc said a daughter society was totally unnecessary in the UK, which is not the case. The Dutch are now seriously reconsidering this, having realised that their sources of information were incorrect and this is why things may well now be taking the daughter society route.

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Dont get me wrong I am far from being one of those people who says you must buy British...........but I would like to see far more done by the industry to help support its British Breeders............instead of always promoting the foreign Studbooks in whatever forms...........IMHO

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See my answer to the first quote -- and also look at the current rules for the Futurity YHEs before you assume the worst. Also, support is a two-way thing. The Futurity/YHEs in particular is a very open organisation and if you feel that there is a way in which their evaluations can be held in Scotland in a way that guarntees support and makes its approved evaluators welcome, then do please contact Jan Rogers directly about this as 2008 venues and dates are in the process of being set up at the moment. IOW the remedy to your complaints is in your hands! Also, the more animals that participate, the more robust the statistics are that will feed into the EBVs and it is on this point in particular that the long established Scottish system now falls down in comparison with the BEF one. However, if the SSH uploads the results of their evaluations into NED they will form part of the relevant data, but as a stallion owner I know you will be aware that the larger the cohort the better and more accurate the result.

Hope that helps and clarifies things a little.
 
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Your rush to judgement missed out the key phrase British bred. YHEs and the Futurity are now *strictly limited to BRITISH BRED animals*, precisely to stop this happening. Under EU competitiveness laws it is illegal to forbid any breeder of a foal born in the UK from registering it with any stud book approved in the EU, but by ensuring that animals with (or in the case of foals, destined for) KWPN, Oldenburg or now ZfDP papers have to have them overstamped by a British studbook before they can take part in the series, the Uk studbooks concerned )of which actually SSH is one) gets some money from it and the studbook in turn uploads the verified breeding data onto NED. IOW, it *should* be a loop-hole free system that actually generates money for the studbooks that you say that the BEF does not support in any way.

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So what you are saying is that a foal born in the UK but passported under the KWPN, Hanoveria, or Oldenburg brand name can come forward, but those who have been purchased abroad but are still under those brand names are not eligible?

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As regards the judges perhaps you should inform Jan Rogers of exactly who it was people were objecting to and why, especially as the panel is drawn fron a small, highly trained, number of people who shared the duties across the entire UK -- and whose results certainly seem in tune with quite a number of posters to this board

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Why would people object?? It is like showing..........if they dont rate a judge then they simply dont enter............they dont then contact the show organiser and say they object to the judge.

Also I know that there is a person within the BEF organisation that may be "highly trained" (to the BEF) but has been quite detrimental to one UK Studbook......however, this is not the place for a discussion such as that, but am sure Jan would know.

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How do you know it was conveniently ignored?

[/ QUOTE ] Because an email was sent direct to the BEF (it had nothing to do with the SEA) and follow up phonecalls to this person were never returned....

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Perhaps the Scottish Dept of Agriculture or the Horserace Betting Levy Board would have been a better bet, or perhaps asking advice from the BWBS or SHBGB, two UK mother stduboks that seem to manage to fund well-run gradings at good venues without a huge number of entries

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This was not was I was referring to in any way, gradings held North of the border are very self sufficient, and gain great support from breeders because the graders go to several local venues, not just one for the whole country, and entries always reach well over the 100 mark.

I was actually regarding a new direction that was introduced this year which the powers that be at the BEF said was a great way forward, and was then asked to put their money where their mouth was.........
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IOW the remedy to your complaints is in your hands

[/ QUOTE ] .........not complaints............just observations, which on some fronts you have cleared up.

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if the SSH uploads the results of their evaluations into NED they will form part of the relevant data

[/ QUOTE ] - this I can certainly pass onto the SSH,as I too think it should be done.
 
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So what you are saying is that a foal born in the UK but passported under the KWPN, Hanoverian, or Oldenburg brand name can come forward, but those who have been purchased abroad but are still under those brand names are not eligible?

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Hannoverian foals born in the UK are eligible anyway as the BHHS is a fully approved stud book PIO in the UK as well as being a daughter society of the Hannoverian Verband. Animals born in the UK whose owners choose to have them passported by a studbook without an official DEFRA-listed daughter society presence here (eg KWPN, Oldenburg, ZfDP, Dansk Varmblod, Westf) must provide proof of overstamping by a DEFRA-listed UK studbook PIO (these include daughter studbooks such as the TBF and BHHS as wella smother stuidbooks such as AES, BWBS and SHBGB) before they can take part -- or in the case of foals be awarded any finacial premiums due to them. In this way UK studbooks gain income that they would not otherwise have and NED gains breeding datathat it woukl not otherwise have.

As far as animals born abroad are concerned (unless the dam is usually based in the UK but is temporarily abroad for covering purposes at the time of birth) none is allowed to take part in the Futurity and they are now also prohibiited entry to the ridden part for 4 year olds and above.

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How do you know it was conveniently ignored?

[/ QUOTE ] Because an email was sent direct to the BEF (it had nothing to do with the SEA) and follow up phonecalls to this person were never returned....

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But as I said the SEA has a very 'we are the ones that speak for Scotland' attitude and in the face of that, this is almost certainly why you received no answer, especially -- as I say -- becuase for a Scottish stud book such as the SSH the Strategy and funding (if any) should come from the Scottish Strategy initiatives not (sadly, and not of their choosing) from anything organised or sourced by the BEF :-(. Alex Salmond (and Muriel!) again I am afraid. However, if you PM me the name of the person who was contacted in the BEF I will try to find out from Jan exactly why no answer was ever received. I rather suspect that it was passed back to Muriel for action becuase of the above so it is still going the rounds!

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I was actually regarding a new direction that was introduced this year which the powers that be at the BEF said was a great way forward, and was then asked to put their money where their mouth was.........
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As I said before, sadly there is very little money for any of it as yet (although there may well be some later) and especially not ATM for an area that has chosen to have its own strategy.

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IOW the remedy to your complaints is in your hands

[/ QUOTE ] .........not complaints............just observations, which on some fronts you have cleared up.

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That's good to know; but I do sometimes think that the BEF gets blamed for matters over which it has no control -- and the effect of Scottish Devolution on Equine sport and breeding is sadly one of these.

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if the SSH uploads the results of their evaluations into NED they will form part of the relevant data

[/ QUOTE ] - this I can certainly pass onto the SSH,as I too think it should be done.

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Again, very good news :-)
 
I have sent 5 emails and been calling them for the last 3 weeks (virtually everyday but all I get is either the office is closed for a week! or the lines are busy and no one to answer!) I am absolutley gobsmacked that they can run like this. I have had not one message or email answered so have given up as a lost cause.
 
im getting worried now as i was going to send my stallion for grading next year with the aes, may try the sf one instead now!! he is by a french stallion, might be a better line for me to take
 
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