After 11 riding lessons

[RachelFerd]

Real world versus ideal world ?... so many of my horse thoughts are like this, these days.
If the learner is an adult, and can afford the greatly increased cost, the above is great.
Learning as a kid, on ponies, they quickly know how much control you have, and I am not sure you could prevent them realising it! Lesson plans that are boring for ponies and riders don't help, there is surely scope for some imagination here.
Maybe if beginner horses were all trained for lunging, the instructor's voice cues/lunge whip signals could also be used in ordinary lessons to assist the rider if the horse didn't respond to aids.
There's also a difference between sending a horse on with force compared to raising your intention/energy, voice, gesture, tapping the whip on your own boot, etc. We can teach that there are alternatives to hitting/kicking the horse, even when it's being sticky.
How do other countries do beginner lessons, are there other methods out there?

I agree that kids and ponies are a bit of a different thing. Although I still don't want anyone yelling 'kick' at a children. Can you imagine the outroar if we told people to kick their dogs to train them?

When I was trying to teach adults I did prefer teaching on the lunge, because if I can help control the horse's pace I can make sure that the rider is getting the right reward for the right aid. I also liked to spend a good chunk of time explaining pressure and release - how we use our leg aids correctly, how timing is more important than force, and that the timing of removing an aid is more important than the strength of the aid. I also used to demo that by jumping on board occasionally to show that 'kick kick kick' really isn't needed. But there were some horses that I taught with who were just so dulled by the whole process that you really couldn't teach anyone to ride nicely on them.

Does anyone remember, years ago, that TV series Faking It where Tim Stockdale taught someone to ride from scratch in one episode and they were jumping around a BS show by the end of it. He put her on a nice schoolmaster in lesson number 1 and went walk to canter of a voice aid within the first 5 minutes. She was sitting well straight away and able to sit the canter really well by the end of lesson 1. No kicking involved. Now, she was physically fit already because I think she was a dancer or something... but it always stuck with me that we rather over complicate the issues of learning to ride by teaching people on horses who are literally un-schooled.

It is also then a big problem when people want to move away from riding at a riding school into horse ownership - when they discover that most horses incline to being more go than whoa it often ends in injury and uncertain futures for horses and riders.

There are a small number of good riding schools out there getting it right. It always seems so strange to me that we leave the teaching of most beginner riders to the most junior and/or unqualified of instructors. It doesn't make much sense when you think about it.

 

[teapot]

I recall on another of your threads that a local person advised you that you were planning to learn at a riding school which they would not recommend. Perhaps check back and contact that person to ask where they suggest you learn.
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It was me because I know the standard of where OP is riding and foresaw a thread like this appearing, given the op's keeness to learn.

Yes beginners learn to ride on safe ploddy cobs because they're safe and forgiving (I'd rather be Saint Boy than a RS plod!) but the constant kicking does nothing for position, transitions, feel, and seat. That said, unless you're riding somewhere that has the ultimate schoolmaster that a) is safe b) is schooled and c) goes 100% well on the lunge, in the real world, the practicalities of this are very very hard. That's not to say your average rs cob shouldn't be off the leg. The problem is lot of these horses are tired and underschooled!

My original suggestions of Quob or Lavant would serve you very well, both horse wise, with responsive but safe horses, some of cobby build, but also bloody good coaching, which imho is just as important. Having three/four instructors for you as a beginner makes me twitch.

As for the aches op - welcome to riding. I still ache after a good session/lesson - it comes down to fitness, our sport is not easy.

 

[GreyMane]

I agree that kids and ponies are a bit of a different thing. Although I still don't want anyone yelling 'kick' at a children. Can you imagine the outroar if we told people to kick their dogs to train them?

When I was trying to teach adults I did prefer teaching on the lunge, because if I can help control the horse's pace I can make sure that the rider is getting the right reward for the right aid. I also liked to spend a good chunk of time explaining pressure and release - how we use our leg aids correctly, how timing is more important than force, and that the timing of removing an aid is more important than the strength of the aid. I also used to demo that by jumping on board occasionally to show that 'kick kick kick' really isn't needed. But there were some horses that I taught with who were just so dulled by the whole process that you really couldn't teach anyone to ride nicely on them.

Does anyone remember, years ago, that TV series Faking It where Tim Stockdale taught someone to ride from scratch in one episode and they were jumping around a BS show by the end of it. He put her on a nice schoolmaster in lesson number 1 and went walk to canter of a voice aid within the first 5 minutes. She was sitting well straight away and able to sit the canter really well by the end of lesson 1. No kicking involved. Now, she was physically fit already because I think she was a dancer or something... but it always stuck with me that we rather over complicate the issues of learning to ride by teaching people on horses who are literally un-schooled.

It is also then a big problem when people want to move away from riding at a riding school into horse ownership - when they discover that most horses incline to being more go than whoa it often ends in injury and uncertain futures for horses and riders.

There are a small number of good riding schools out there getting it right. It always seems so strange to me that we leave the teaching of most beginner riders to the most junior and/or unqualified of instructors. It doesn't make much sense when you think about it.

I do remember that TV programme. She was a nightclub podium dancer, and almost fainted when she had to muck out a stable! Although her fitness, balance and rhythm made her the ideal learner, the horse was golden, well schooled and in self carriage, and would have made anyone look good.

How many of our books say that beginner mounts must be regularly schooled and ridden by experienced riders so they don't get stale? And how many times does it actually happen...

It's been a while since I took a child to a lesson. Last time I did, near Dartmoor, I was shocked at how kids who were riding appallingly badly were not corrected at all. My niece had the same name as another rider and got given the nicest "go" pony by mistake; she cantered around happily in her very first lesson!

 

[Kaylum]

100%. It’s not only awful for the horse who’s learnt to zone out but counterproductive in many ways to the rider who will have to unlearn much of this as they advance. In an ideal world, beginners should have many lessons on a simulator horse before any ridden.

Yep the simulator is brilliant for this and lots of schools are now investing in them.

 

[paddy555]

No-one thinks it is an absolute tragedy that we've got riding schools out there teaching people that 'kicking and whipping' are how we train horses???

I taught in riding schools for years and years and the tragedy of teaching with half dead cobs is real - it doesn't teach people to ride well and it isn't a necessary stepping stone. It is absolutely appropriate to teach people to ride on forward going but well schooled horses in private lessons. This 'kick kick kick' teaching style makes it harder to teach people to ride correctly in the future and does nothing positive for the profile of our sport.

totally agree. I can't see what OP is learning. I would find somewhere with a mechanical horse where you can sit there, forget what the horse is going to do or if it is going to move and then you can concentrate on exactly what your body and balance are doing at all paces.
Then follow teapots suggestions. Find a school where you can go on the lunge where you will ache like mad but will be moving and have to learn to accommodate your body.

I think it is time to move up a gear.

 

[RachelFerd]

I do remember that TV programme. She was a nightclub podium dancer, and almost fainted when she had to muck out a stable! Although her fitness, balance and rhythm made her the ideal learner, the horse was golden, well schooled and in self carriage, and would have made anyone look good.

How many of our books say that beginner mounts must be regularly schooled and ridden by experienced riders so they don't get stale? And how many times does it actually happen...

It's been a while since I took a child to a lesson. Last time I did, near Dartmoor, I was shocked at how kids who were riding appallingly badly were not corrected at all. My niece had the same name as another rider and got given the nicest "go" pony by mistake; she cantered around happily in her very first lesson!

In my experience it is only the training centres with a good input of full-time training students who can keep the beginner horses properly tuned up. I used to train at Huntley (much missed) and you'd often find yourself in a stg 3 ride lesson riding one of the 'beginner horses' - but actually, it was an important skill for the stag3/4 riders to be able to keep those horses tuned up - and they could often produce a surprisingly good quality of work! My limited interactions with Ingestre suggest it is equally good at doing that.

But most riding schools don't have a regular influx of well educated students trying to progress through the stages.

I also used to do quite a bit of teaching at the British Racing School - albeit I did classroom teaching not teaching with the horses, but I knew the processes well. They are teaching total beginners, week in week out, on a group of forward going ex-racehorses and getting them to the point where they are industry ready in 12-18 weeks. A huge part of that success is in teaching people who are physically fit in the first place.

I suspect that army riding training is similar in style, and in that the recruits are physically fit.

I guess the message here is that it is all easier if you are phyiscally fit, and if you can find somewhere to learn which has at least moderately responsive reasonably schooled horses... and can provide consistent tuition from someone with genuine knowledge and desire to impart that knowledge.

 

[teapot]

In my experience it is only the training centres with a good input of full-time training students who can keep the beginner horses properly tuned up. I used to train at Huntley (much missed) and you'd often find yourself in a stg 3 ride lesson riding one of the 'beginner horses' - but actually, it was an important skill for the stag3/4 riders to be able to keep those horses tuned up - and they could often produce a surprisingly good quality of work! My limited interactions with Ingestre suggest it is equally good at doing that..

Wellington do too - one of the RDA horses does their I training! He's a cracker to ride, and knows far more than he lets on.

 

[RachelFerd]

Wellington do too - one of the RDA horses does their I training! He's a cracker to ride, and knows far more than he lets on.

These horses are worth their absolute weight in gold. But they wouldn't stay like that without the right continued work would they.

 

[teapot]

These horses are worth their absolute weight in gold. But they wouldn't stay like that without the right continued work would they.

Correct work and management, which may or may not include spending money. A very hard balancing act for a lot of yards, but in my experience what people can't seem to grasp is that if you take the time, effort, and money to do so, the horse(s) will repay you ten-fold.

 

[Lou27]

Yep the simulator is brilliant for this and lots of schools are now investing in them.

That’s great to hear and will have so many benefits. Hopefully, this will have a knock on effect and really raise the standard of instruction at many RS and in turn have better skilled riders from the get go and much happier horses.

 

[GreyMane]

That’s great to hear and will have so many benefits. Hopefully, this will have a knock on effect and really raise the standard of instruction at many RS and in turn have better skilled riders from the get go and much happier horses.

At last - a bit of modern technology that could spare the horses, and take riders quickly to a better starting point, making them happier too. Win-win.
I booked a simulator lesson, unfortunately didn't get it though as school couldn't find the key when I arrived !

 

[Lou27]

Exactly!

That sucks about the lost key, hope you didn’t have far to travel?! Better luck next time

 

[Pippity]

I do remember that TV programme. She was a nightclub podium dancer, and almost fainted when she had to muck out a stable! Although her fitness, balance and rhythm made her the ideal learner, the horse was golden, well schooled and in self carriage, and would have made anyone look good.

If I remember correctly, she was only spotted as the 'fake' because she called it a Foxhunters class, rather than Foxhunter, in the interview portion.

Strictly Come Dancing is another example of how much you can achieve in a short time with excellent, intensive instruction, and a good level of physical fitness. It also shows that you need a certain feel for whatever you're learning, too.

 

[Grajo]

There are many different establishments, offering very different services at different price points.

This place seems to have given you a grounding, in that you are still confident and wanting more.

If you are wanting a different service, I would first of all talk to them. They may be able to offer a more forward horse as a private lesson, or lunge lesson.

This will probably cost about 3X what a group lesson costs, sometimes for about half the time.

It is the way I prefer to teach, but many people are not willing to pay for the extra time and expertise this requires. Minute for minute, you are looking at 6X the cost of a basic group lesson.

If they are not able to offer what you require, and are not able to explain why to your satisfaction, and you still wish for a different service, then you could research a different place that does offer what you want. As a youngster, I would go on a weeklong riding holiday. In later life, I would go for a week's training. In essence it was the same thing, concentrated instruction on specialist horses.

I would, however, agree with others that, if the instructor got on, I bet the cobs would lift their skirts and go perfectly well. There is much to learn. I would also caution against a 'name and shame' approach, as it could sour your relationship with the riding school you have.

All of my lessons are PRIVATE (Not Group)

 

[oldie48]

I actually had a lesson today on a Spanish horse, trainer was very good and horse was a true schoolmaster in that he knew his job, was safe but although older and a bit stiff, once warmed up he was obliging although nowhere near as forward going as I am used to. I've not schooled a horse for a year now and I am lacking rider fitness so tbh I found him hard work but he was very good at showing up my riding faults and I shall go back for more lessons on him. Interestingly, trainer/owner said he was very forward going when he first arrived but he has become increasingly behind the leg. I do think he will teach me quite a lot but it's very difficult to keep horses motivated when they are used for lessons and adapt to less confident/competent riders. I'm going to look for somewhere to have lunge lessons. I had a lesson on a simulator a couple of years ago and though I found it interesting, loved playing around with tempis I found it rather too easy to ride as it keeps it's outline and momentum/rhythm without any rider input but I can see how useful it would be for a relative beginner. I am going to use the time when Rose is turned away to try to improve my riding and get fitter as I'm definitely not ready to hang up my boots!

 

[ester]

If I remember correctly, she was only spotted as the 'fake' because she called it a Foxhunters class, rather than Foxhunter, in the interview portion.

Yup! good memory.

 

[Grajo]

I’m also an adult beginner who’s had a similar number of lessons. For my first assessment lesson I got put on a safe, plodding cob - I struggled to get him to trot, and keep him in trot but he very kindly stopped when I lost my balance.

After that, I had several lunge lessons where I didn’t have to worry about keeping the horse going and could work on my position. I’ve been doing lots of no-stirrups and no reins and my lower leg is much more secure.

Last week I had the same cob as I’d had for the first lesson and it was like being on a different horse! His trot had so much energy and it was really good fun. My instructor said the horse hadn’t changed since my first lesson, but I had!

From reading your posts I suspect you have the advantage over me in being a lot younger, probably fitter and more confident (possibly too confident?). However I have the advantage of having watched my daughter’s lessons over the last ten or so years so I know how long it can take to become an effective rider and what it looks like when it’s being done well (there’s no kicking!).

I would really recommend lunge lessons and maybe ask your instructor to give you an achievable goal for each lesson so you feel you’re making progress.

I wasn't aware to have "lunge" lessons this early. I have already booked for the next 16 lessons (all private lessons, off course)

 

[ester]

I'm confused why you were asking if you need to go elsewhere then you have another 16 lessons already booked?

 

[Muddy unicorn]

At the start of learning to ride is the ideal time to have lunge lessons ...

 

[littleshetland]

I wasn't aware to have "lunge" lessons this early. I have already booked for the next 16 lessons (all private lessons, off course)

No one can say your not keen! Do you have any friends that own their own horse(s)?

 

[Grajo]

I've heard good things about Quob riding school
https://quobstables.com/
Try them if you think you're getting nowhere at Fort Widley.
There's also Pinkmead
https://www.pinkmead.co.uk/
And Lavant
https://lavantequestrian.co.uk/

Thank you. I've already aware of these 4 stables, but I've chosen Fort Widley for 3 reasons

1) They are the nearest - by distance and by means of public transport (20 minutes bus and then 15 minutes walk as I do not own a car). Pinkmead is my 2nd choice (5 minutes bus; 15 minutes train; 5 minutes walk). Both Qoub & Lavant are too far away without car

2) Fort Widley are the cheapest (not only the cost of private lessons but also cost of transport. I have bus pass (FREE). The others are around 50% extra cost. I would rather have 2 private lessons with Fort Widley a week than 1 from the others. Lavant would charge Stable Management the SAME price as their costly private lessons while Fort Widley only charges £10 for 1/2 hour Stable Management course which I am planning to start next month - before or after my usual riding lessons

3) FREE to use riding helmet (at least until I've purchase one)

I probably would check out Pinkmead (but keep Fort Widley too) but they are quite difficult to book private lessons though.

 

[Velcrobum]

Perhaps you could use one of the lessons on their trotting mechanical horse https://peterashleyactivitycentres.co.uk/mechanical-horses/

 

[Muddy unicorn]

I'd have thought going with the cheapest riding school is a false economy .. better to pay a bit more and learn a lot more surely?

 

[Grajo]

You should absolutely not be kicking a horse.

Change your riding school.

Its cause people have kicked them that they are like they are. Numb to the leg.

I hate schools like that.

Horses can be ploddy but responsive and safe.

One child was removed from one of our lessons and given a good talking to for bashing it's legs into the the side of the horse and that's how it should be.

I am not a bully. I, personally do not like keep on kicking horses. I would only like to kick once at a time. In my 1st ever sat on a horse during Polo Experience Day in Argentina 6 years ago, it took my ONE kick to make her run!!

 

[teapot]

Thank you. I've already aware of these 4 stables, but I've chosen Fort Widley for 3 reasons

1) They are the nearest - by distance and by means of public transport (20 minutes bus and then 15 minutes walk as I do not own a car). Pinkmead is my 2nd choice (5 minutes bus; 15 minutes train; 5 minutes walk). Both Qoub & Lavant are too far away without car

2) Fort Widley are the cheapest (not only the cost of private lessons but also cost of transport. I have bus pass (FREE). The others are around 50% extra cost. I would rather have 2 private lessons with Fort Widley a week than 1 from the others. Lavant would charge Stable Management the SAME price as their costly private lessons while Fort Widley only charges £10 for 1/2 hour Stable Management course which I am planning to start next month - before or after my usual riding lessons

3) FREE to use riding helmet (at least until I've purchase one)

I probably would check out Pinkmead (but keep Fort Widley too) but they are quite difficult to book private lessons though.

I wouldn't bother with Pinkmead if you want to improve long term. Appreciate the logistics/costs, and Quob is a pain to get to, but I am aware of people getting to Lavant by public transport. At the end of the day you get what you pay for. Part of what you'll pay for is better facilities, coaching, horses, environment, regular nature of lesson content, and the chance to do a lot more than you will have even considered.

Re costs of stable management, you'll rarely find somewhere that discounts it as much as Widey apparently does. It's still the instructor's time after all. They don't get paid less for teaching theory I'll stop myself from ranting about bad business management.

ETS: riding a polo pony is like getting in a Ferrari, rs cobs are your Nissan micras... They require different tools/aids.

 

[Grajo]

No one can say your not keen! Do you have any friends that own their own horse(s)?

No lol

 

[FinalCanter]

As most have stated, many riding schools have horses that are very dead/numb to leg aids (or they will take every opportunity to nap if you don't constantly urge them on). As someone who has been through the riding school system in different areas for five years now, you eventually learn and understand what makes each horse 'click', even on the ones numb to the leg. That said, after a few years--it does start to hinder your progress. When that time comes, ask to be put on more advance mounts if they have them. If the riding school does not have a horse that is more sensitive to the leg/more willing, you have three options: move to another riding school, lease/share a horse from someone, or buy a horse of your own. These are usually the routes individuals take going through riding schools for a few years. There's a limit on your advancement if the school does not have responsive mounts--but all that said, you are still quite new and it will benefit you in learning how to pilot school horses first. Learn their personalities, see what makes them go and don't give up!

 

[Grajo]

I wouldn't bother with Pinkmead if you want to improve long term. Appreciate the logistics/costs, and Quob is a pain to get to, but I am aware of people getting to Lavant by public transport. At the end of the day you get what you pay for. Part of what you'll pay for is better facilities, coaching, horses, environment, regular nature of lesson content, and the chance to do a lot more than you will have even considered.

Re costs of stable management, you'll rarely find somewhere that discounts it as much as Widey apparently does. It's still the instructor's time after all. They don't get paid less for teaching theory I'll stop myself from ranting about bad business management.

I didn't like Quob because they do not bother replying my query and also they had removed "12 weeks intensive course" that I was hoping to get it started. Wellingto does have 12 weeks intensive course but they are way too expensive and also accomodation very expensive too

 

[Grajo]

Re costs of stable management, you'll rarely find somewhere that discounts it as much as Widey apparently does. It's still the instructor's time after all. They don't get paid less for teaching theory I'll stop myself from ranting about bad business management.
.

I already asked to make sure that when comes to do Stable Management courses, I'll do actually in the stable - rather than on "theory" where I can read

 

[teapot]

I didn't like Quob because they do not bother replying my query and also they had removed "12 weeks intensive course" that I was hoping to get it started. Wellingto does have 12 weeks intensive course but they are way too expensive and also accomodation very expensive too

Wellington's three month course is aimed at those in the industry - it's done at a high intensity, and you'd need to be able of w,t,c at a minimum safely and securely.

I already asked to make sure that when comes to do Stable Management courses, I'll do actually in the stable - rather than on "theory" where I can read

Tacking up, grooming, boots - all 'theory' in the loosest sense