After a disastrous morning, any tips to help my child jump?

Angelbones

Angelbones

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To cut a long story short we went to a clear round sj session this morning. My 10 yr old daughter has just moved onto the next size up pony (13.2). She is a generally competent rider but just has this hang up about jumping and she won't bend at the waist or move her hands forward over a jump. The old pony didn't object but the new one doesn't like it and he gives her a dreadful jump (quite rightly so!) when she doesn't give with her hands as he hates being pulled in the mouth. So, after one fall and then cutting the next round short due to her crying, me losing it, etc we came home.

So, please does anybody have any tips / exercises to get my child to at least lean forward over a jump, and at best to move her hands forward. She had a neck strap today to reach for / hold onto but that didn't help (she is VERY strong willed and any prompting from me just makes her worse).

A girl working for me at the mo is going to try some grids with her tomorrow, perhaps putting the pony on the lunge and getting the child to ride without reins etc. She knows the pony well, he isn't strong or stupid and will jump if not interfered with. She hunted him this past season. She just is nervous of jumping for some reason and tends to hang onto the reins like handle bars, although her balance is good and this is her 3rd pony so by now she should have cracked it. I just feel totally fed up, cross with myself for not having the patience the other mums seem to have, despairing of her, and am full of 'right, let's sell the pony then' which of course is not what I want at all.

HELP ME PLEASE!

ps she just moved off the little chestnut in my siggie to the bold looking grey (who isn't actually strong at all). You can see her hand position in the jumping shot.

thanks so much xx
 
how about getting her to stay in a forward light seat all the time for a while...so she approaches the jump in the 'jumping position' and has to maintain this till well after she has landed. that should cure the position issue...then the hands...see if you can get her to, whilst cantering round the arena in the forward light seat to release contact by moving hand slightly forwards and down, as she would over a jump, then take contact back, release again etc about 20 times! then perhaps try this over poles, for a few weeks/sessions, then build it up to over a jump
 
Do you stay and watch her lessons and comment? Obviously no offence intended but if you do why don't you let this girl who works for you work with her own her own with you somewhere close by incase it is the usual mum-daughter thing where u say black she says white?
 
Honestly? Send her to someone else for lessons! Children often won't do as their parents say in this situation but have a bit more respect for/are a bit more scared of another adult!

Things to try failing that though are - grid work with no reins - go from dropping the reins (knotted obviously) to something different over each fence - hands on head, hands out to the side, hands behind back etc.

Putting a plait in ponies mane with bright tape round it which she must at all costs grab over the fence.

Playing games with her like trying to touch his ears over the fence.

I start by having trot poles out, and getting them to do jump position over the poles - often it is incorrect stirrup length (too long, and I must confess your daughters look a couple of holes too long in that pic in your sig) and a lack of balance. Until they can do the whole line of poles in jump position and move their hands up and down the neck, you have no hope of getting them to do it over a fence!

Then graduate to cross poles - tiny ones - at the end of the poles so the line of poles can be done in jump position without it phazing the pony that they are forward into the fence. Then gradually reduce the number of poles they do jump position over until it clicks about how to fold!
 
this might work set up a course of jumps, wings etc but only have the poles on the ground, get her to walk trot and canter round this course. all she has to do is to count three, two, one strides and then the pony is over the pole. then ask her to lean as she approaches on the one count and sit up again keep practising its fun. once she is confident and has her eye in, she will relax more then you can put the poles up, a small amount at a time
 
Does the pony stop when she has fixed her hands? Does he travel forward to the jump (if you get my meaning!)?

If so, then it could be a fear mechanism. Does she do it with other horses, because chances are it comes down to her fear of getting bad jumps! So when she goes down towards a jump she will naturally tense up, the pony will feel this and thus prepare to protect himself by jumping badly! However, the first few jumps when she does give with her hands he will still jump awkwardly in anticipation which doesn't help.
 
I would echo letting someone else teach her without you there and see i that helps. When I was younger I was useless at giving with my hands, one instructor put a section of pony's mane in a bunch and had me reach for it which worked, maybe a bunch of mane held with a brightly coloured scrunchie or something that will catch her attention might help - and get someone else to introduce it to her so it doesn't come accross as "mum's idea"!
 
I try very hard not to be there when she has lessons and very very hard to keep my mouth shut! but it is so hard to watch her do something I know she is aware is incorrect, and that upsets / is unfair on the pony, without saying something (bad mummy I know)!

She is in the PC and I really don't feel they are doing anything to help her (not just me but other mums too also feel this about their own kids) as they seem to be happy to see them get over the jumps without worrying about how they do it so I've been taking her elsewhere for sessions in grid work, combined training, dressage etc.

We've been through several instructors over the past few years, most of whom were fab and had great patience but once she gets familiar with them then she starts to make excuses (she is full of them), gets a bit cheeky, etc. I do know her well enough by now to know that this all starts when the nerves kick in, but she also knows that she has nothing to be nervous about on this pony which makes it all so frustrating. I mean't to say also that she did the first 8 jumps this morning relatively well, not leaning forward much but trying with the hands, and it all went wrong when the pony stopped and she fell off. He stopped because she thought the fence was a scary one (she started twittering about it when walking the course) and I could see her tightening up on him as she approached the fence and she basically rode for a stop, if that makes any sense.

Having read the answers (thanks guys) I think I'm seeing more clearly that the exercises suggested would help with her confidence and her position and that she needs both to be effective at the end of the day.

I will stay well away tomorrow and let them get on with it and promise not to shout down the yard at them (gonna bite down on an old stirrup leather to stop me). She's only off school for one more week and then we've got a tiny xc pairs thing on the 26th, but that may have to go on hold...ho hum.

Many thanks for all the replies, I'll print them off and take them with me tomorrow....
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Can I ask what you said when she started twittering about the scary fence? I have helped a few people like this, and I have found the most effective thing is not to just say 'it's not scary' (which of course is the right thing to say), but to take them back to the fence before and then walk them through exactly what they will do between that fence and the scary one - where they will turn, what they will be looking at, where they will kick, what they will shout at the pony, how many seconds to count etc. This is effective because it not only takes their mind off the fence, but you've given them a strategy to get over the problem.

So say scary one is fence 5. Come over fence 4, ride straight until the blue banner on the arena then turn by the green jump. Look at the tree on the hill, when passing the purple jump start kicking and shout 'go go go' at pony. The shouting bit is for rider not horse BTW - forces her to breathe and makes her feel more determined! You can shout anything - I personally use 'geeeeet on' at my horse when I am having a daft moment. He couldn't care less but it stops me freezing.

So having done that, you can then get them to walk the line with you telling you what they will do and where, then go through again just before they go in. Works for XC too - you can say sit up as you pass the telegraph pole, start kicking, aim for the funny coloured bit on the rail, yell a lot at pony from passing fence judge's car.
 
As a mother who has managed to be part of the reason one daughter has given up riding
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, my very (very!) strong advice would be to stay away from her lessons and tie gaffer tape round your jaw when she's jumping
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Sorry, sounds blunt, but really don't want others to make the mistake I did
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.

Boo hoo.
 
The pony doesn't mind being ridden with a firm contact / fixed contact or indeed a very loose one (he is very easy all in all) he just hates jumping like that. When we got him he'd had a standing martingale on for 4 years, had an upside down neck etc, and I've spent the past year sorting him out. He now goes in a lovely outline, moves beautifully etc, just hates being pulled in the mouth / head being yanked over jumps.

After the disaster this morning I put my girl on him for a round and she sat there, let him do it, didn't interfere with his mouth and he did a foot perfect round so I know why he is getting upset with my daughter.

When she does it to him he obviously lifts his head up, drops his back and is likely to hit the fence behind, and the child gets a horrible hollow jump which bounces her up very high. He is so genuine that so far he seems to treat each jump separately and gives her a clean slate each time. He isn't strong, doesn't rush his fences, would pull up after one stride either before or after a fence. He would walk between fences if she asked, and trot or canter into them when told to. The truth is he takes pretty much no riding at all so I know he isn't too much for her, and he does seem to want to look after her too. What I don't want is him unlearning what he does correctly and taking on bad jumping all the time as he starts to predict what is coming, as you rightly say.

And yes she has always had a tendency to do this, probably through nerves and the desire to 'keep hold' over a jump to feel in control. Even if her reins aren't short, she still won't give with the hands. Strangely enough when not jumping we have the other problem of reins so long you could hang your knickers on them!
 
putting the scrunchie in the mane at about 3rd plait position is a good one, if she touches it in midair in canter and then brings hands back, again and again, she'll get used to the feeling. how about bribery - if she does it over 5 fences in a row, she gets a present/£5, whatever! got to be worth it for the pony's sake... he'll soon chuck the towel in otherwise, which will help her confidence even less.
tbh i'd prob leave jumping for a while completely, let her get used to the new pony without the pressure of jumping, just do trot poles maybe, with crest release over that, to get her used to it.
 
Would it benefit the pony if you used some of the elastic rein inserts?

They Might just stop him being pulled in the mouth as much. I know it's not going to solve the problem with your daughter but the pony might jump better if he isn't getting pulled so much which may improve your daughters confidence.
 
Well I thought we'd walked the course successfully - she did the kid thing of running the course jumping herself over the fences (we are talking 1'6), saying where to go wide round the corner and not cut in too tight etc but when we got to the last one, which really wasn't any different to the others except it was orange and black (how dare they?!) she said 'ooh he won't like that one'. I said that he wouldn't mind the colour, that it was no bigger or wider than the others, asked what side he would run out on if he did and she said the left and that she'd have to use more left leg, more right rein, so I thought that would be find. What I didn't do, and what sounds a great idea, is the 'point spotting' you said about; picking a point around the tract to aim for, etc. I do think that might help her, kind of like a list to tick off and to give her something else to think about. Many thanks for that Spotted Cat.
 
Now you are talking her language! Money is about the only vocab we have in common
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I lost £10 getting her to do a sitting canter nicely for showing classes by wedging it under her bum and telling her that if she kept it there for 2 circuits of the school she could have it. Did the trick but set a dangerous precendent!
 
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I lost £10 getting her to do a sitting canter nicely for showing classes by wedging it under her bum and telling her that if she kept it there for 2 circuits of the school she could have it. Did the trick but set a dangerous precendent!

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LOL, That is such a good idea!! I look after / teach a little girl that has trouble sitting to canter. Will have to try that trick, I am sure she would learn to sit in canter very quickly!
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I dont have any other advice to add that others havent said. But just like to say that your pony sounds so lovely and genuine! Wish my mum had bought me a pony like that when I was little!
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I wonder whose ambition is it for your daughter to jump, hers or yours? Do you ride yourself?

I have stewarded many a WH class where obviously nervous children have been shouted at by parents/burst into tears/fallen off etc and I often think the parents (many of whom have never sat on a horse) would do better if they stopped pushing their children to do things they are not ready for.

Riding is supposed to be enjoyable and as Mrs Mozart says it is very easy to put children off.

If your daughter does want to jump then,I'm afraid that I do NOT think the correct response to "that jump is scary" is "no it's not" , because it obviously is to the child, but "why what makes it scary?, Right , now what can we do to make it less scary?" and follow up with some of the ideas given above.
 
Hi there, loads of great advice on here already but just wanted to say that Mum was always quicker with a correction than she was with praise, and it took many years to realise she meant well and only ever wanted the best for me
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Just remember that kids only ever want to make their parents proud so make sure she knows it
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On a practical level I would suggest exercises that get her familiar with moving about on the horse (especially because he sounds like such an affable chap!) For example Simon Says touch his ears/girth/tail/your hat/knees etc. then move up the pace so she is happy doing it in trot and canter too. It will be great for her balance and her confidence.

Hope this helps x
 
Pearlsasinger, thanks for replying.

I can assure you that from the very first pony, a 36" shetland, it was always my daughter's ambition to ride and jump, she even spent her birthday money on a new set of polyjumps and 'scary' filler to help herself.

She chooses to go to shows and what classes she enters, my only proviso is that she puts the work in before the day, gets the pony fit and does what she considers to be her best.

We pulled out of a dressage comp last week because she said she didn't think her 20m circles were accurate enough in canter. Whether that was an excuse not to go or not, it was her decision. She hunts with me every Saturday during the season (her decision, not mine), and she sometimes stays with the 'non jumpers' at the back and sometimes comes on with me.

Yes I ride, as do her cousins who have their ponies at my yard, but the emphasis is always on fun. Her grandad has a racing yard and we wanted our yard to be the relaxed fun one rather than the career oriented one.

My ambition is not for her to jump per se but to jump properly, simple as that, for both her and the pony's benefit. The point of my post was not that I couldn't "make my child jump" at all, but that she has a problem with technique which is bothering the pony and consequently affecting her confidence.
 
TBH, your whole demeanour does seem to be quite unsympathetic... 'the child', 'twittering' etc. I really wouldn't want to be her at all.

If she doesn't want to jump, let her 'retire' to dressage for now. If she *does* want to jump, find her a sympathetic instructor, and let them get on with it... and pay the instructor to take her to shows so the poor girl isn't getting any negative vibes.
 
JustHelen, wouldn't that just be an ideal solution?! Believe me I have suggested it but she says she wants to jump, do the hedges out hunting etc, and she just isn't disciplined enough to do dressage properly although ironically the pony who has never done anything but hunting, has turned out to be a dressage whizz (yes it's been a long year of learning since be got him) and was due to go to Hickstead this week with another rider, but my daughter wanted to do the show jumping instead! Aarrggh.....!
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Catembi: I simply called her the child to cut down on the possibility of confusing pronouns such as her for the girl who works for me, her for the child etc, and to avoid using her actual name, simple as that.

Twittering was a word that seemed preferential to whinging or whining.

I don't pretend to be the most patient mother in the world, and perhaps after 6 years of trying my best to help my daughter ride with enjoyment and a certain level of skill, but often failing, I quite possibly do come across on this forum as unsympathetic but there again, I am on here asking for suggestions to help her, so perhaps not quite that dastardly after all? I use up more energy than the pony does just keeping up the most upbeat, smiley, relaxed persona as I can when my daughter starts to wobble or lose it, and to put a positive spin on things when they don't go as she would have liked. She's not the world's most confident child on any level and would very rarely see an unsympathic side from me on a riding front unless she deserved it and then she would normally take it on the chin, dust herself off and have another go, today was just a particularly bad day which why I have come onto the forum, once again to ask for help for her.
 
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