After my tb awful pics off feet, shoes are off!!

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thatsmygirl

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The farrier came today and took his front shoes off, I wouldn't let him trim up his back feet as I'm happy how he's walking but he argued a bit about the fact he had sole calous!! ( can't spell sorry) and that it needs to be cut off and really he should be lame!!! But he's sound and walking over stones fine so I said a big no.( backs in the end were left un touched) How ever
he did trim the sides off his front frogs
and cut a lot off his sole and only stopped when I asked him not to cut any more sole off, is this going to put him back a bit? He walked over the concrete yard afterward nicely so iv need got my fingers xd big time.
 
Exciting times! I've not experienced a time when ours would be improved by having sole or frog trimmed so can't offer help on that really. If your boy is still sound then all is good, though I must admit I would be nervous about anyone trimming sole or frog tbh. Our farrier is ace and takes a look for me, and does a conservative trim if needed, never touching frog or sole (though he obv wanted to 'tidy' up the frog and has to battle himself not to!). Ours are now self trimming nad haven't needed anything doing for over 3 months now. They are better for it tbh.
 
Iv got 1 self trimming and the farrier looked at him tonight and I said " don't you dare" so excited about how it's going to go but scared as well in case I get to many problems
 
Sounds good! Even if you do get niggles I'm sure you'll be able to work through them! Have you popped into UKNHCP forums? They are fab for help too - you can guarrantee that someone in there will have had the same prob at some point and got through it, a real mine of info and support. Don't forget to keep taking pics, just amazing the changes they go through!
 
My tb is very sensitive to sole and frog trimming and I've ditched 2 farriers for this reason.

But he is clearly sore immediately after on stoney ground so hopefully yours is OK.
 
Well done for taking that big step in having them off :D

Now tell your farrier to put the knives down and back away slowly from the sensitive feet!!! In all seriousness unless they have been neglected and stood in soft squishy mud for 6 months they shouldnt be so overgrown his soles needs massively trimming back.

Exfoliation in a sand school would do a far better job than him hacking into live tissue with a knife. Once you are sure he is comfy get him going across as many different surfaces as possible to stimulate and self trim!
 
Thanks tigertails, iv got a sand round pen which I can use. Oberon suggested to me about walking him round the concrete stable yard to help which iv been doing. My farrier wasn't happy at leaving his back feet but I was pretty firm on that one but neally cried when he cut his front soles off.
What's best to tidy up chips? Is it going to hurt if I buy a rasp just to take the chips off?
 
Oh I was also told by my farrier that my lad is weigh bearing on his soles behind and should be lame? Hence why he wanted to cut them down
 
Congratualtions:)

I posted this earlier in the evening and I'm too lazy to do much than copy and paste for you:)

The weight bearing surfaces of the shod hoof are the walls (and sometimes the heel buttress). This is how we traditionally thought horses should be and it may make sense when the horse is stood still. But horses weren't designed to stand still, they're designed to move.

Studies on wild horse hooves (yes, I know our horses aren't wild but their A&P is the same) shows us that the correct weight bearing surfaces of the hoof are supposed to be the heels, frog, toe callous and wall with variances in load during movement.

The toe callous is padding under the coffin bone - so you can imagine how unwise it is to thin this area. It is extremely rare to need to trim sole in a bare hoof - and those times when it's required is only a one-off due to previous hoof pathology. In fact - the walls are usually the only part of the hoof that need trimming regularly, everything else self maintains.

My horse kicked me a few days ago - you can clearly see in the bruising the imprint of wall and a lovely toe callous in my leg - proving it is weight bearing;)

Not trimming the frog and sole will NOT make your horse lame.
Trimming the frog and sole WILL make your horse sore/lame.

When someone says "I tried barefoot and my horse just couldn't manage" now you know one of the reasons why - it's never the horse's fault:(

These pics are interesting to show the differences in weight bearing surface.

A shod hoof
hoofshodsnow.jpg


And bare
baresnow.jpg

Can you see the sole callous?
 
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Thanks Oberon, very interesting pics. Hope your leg gets better soon, good job your horse was bare foot would off been a lot worse with a shoe :)
 
thatsmygirl said:
Thanks Oberon, very interesting pics. Hope your leg gets better soon, good job your horse was bare foot would off been a lot worse with a shoe :)
Click to expand...

The danger of picking the hooves out of your 25 year old Arab:p

Just goes to show how they can be born in Wigan, but still have wild instincts (and hoof bio mechanics);)
 
I hadn't seen the original thread till today and have just posted on it, personally I'd not be using your farrier. The "NB" job he did, plus the comment about how weight bearing on the sole is wrong...too many alarm bells for me. I'd seek out a good trimmer.
 
Amazingly informative post Oberon :D

OP unless you've got vertical cracks extending towards the coronet band do not worry about chips. Thats self trimming. As long as he isnt lame/sore dont panic about his feet not looking aesthetically pretty, theyre wearing themselves in the pattern they need to.

If you really feel the need to tidy up you would be safer with a sanding block, less chance of shredding your own hands and compromising his hoof wall. http://aepsupplies.co.uk/index.cfm?sid=21583&pid=330564&item=26481

DO NOT go nuts with it and end up over rasping the hoofwall too far up as when it starts to grow down you will then end up with said cracks.

Where abouts are you based roughly?
 
I tend to agree with sbloom re finding a good trimmer. What is it with many farriers and cutting sole off? It will thicken again TMG and hopefully he will not be sore. I wish you the best and good on you for taking steps to get your boy sorted. :)

For anyone wanting to learn more I recommend Pete Ramey's book and if you're flush his 10 DVD series "Under the Horse". The DVD series is imo well worth the money. http://www.hoofrehab.com/
"Feet first" by Nic Barker and Sarah Braithwaite is also worth investing in.

Ps. Yes, great post from Oberon.
 
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Book recommendations

The Horse Owners Guide To Natural Hoof Care by Jamie Jackson.

The Natural Horse by Jaime Jackson.

Paddock Paradise by Jaime Jackson.

Founder Prevention and Cure the Natural Way by Jaime Jackson.

Feet First - Barefoot Performance and Hoof Rehabilitation by Nic Barker and Sarah Braithwaite.

Making Natural Hoof Care Work For You by Pete Ramey.
 
Good reading here too http://www.barefoothorse.com/

How the typical "pasture trim" makes horses sore
-- The heels are left long; encourages contraction, toe-first landing, and "navicular" pain.
-- The toe callus is trimmed away; a thin sole doesn't protect the coffin bone.

-- The bottom of the wall is left flat, as if preparing for a shoe. This encourages flaring in the barefoot hoof. Flares are painful, like pulling really hard on your fingernail.

-- Farriers often ignore the forward-flared toe, leaving a stretched white line and poor coffin bone suspension, thus the horse is "sore on gravel" and on rocky trails.
Click to expand...

I am not discounting all farrier trims here, but the above are what many do, mine is trimmed by a farrier and in far better shape than when they were done by a DAEP so its all swings and roundabouts.
 
When I used a hoof trimmer she always cut away the sole, she was trying to create concavity, and I was always left with a long toes, no heel, no sole, trimmed frog horse, which did his navicular no good at all, I went back to a farrier ( a different one) and his lad who is brilliant trims them for me, taking back the toe balancing the foot and leaving him some heel that helps him with his aversion (sp?) to heel-toe landing, they can't walk heel- toe if the first part that can possibly land is only the toe! I still get a text every now and again from her asking why she never hears from me? Hmmmm let me think.....
 
I know!!! what was weird was that she would go to great lengths to discuss diet etc... and on the first visit explained to me that his concavity would improve in time, then all other trims were about hacking into the sole to 'create concavity' it never worked and he is so much sounder now with the farriers lad trimming him, that lad is going to be a great farrier one day, he has such a good eye for balance and is gentle with the horses, they seem to have great respect for him and appreciate his work. don't know about the name and shame PM if you want to know who to avoid!
 
Interesting thread. I have a tb that I would like to take fronts off but am worried as he is v sensitive to shoeing. My others are all barefoot now just fronts from my tb. Should I just go for it??
 
TigerTail said:
OP unless you've got vertical cracks extending towards the coronet band do not worry about chips. Thats self trimming. As long as he isnt lame/sore dont panic about his feet not looking aesthetically pretty, theyre wearing themselves in the pattern they need to.

If you really feel the need to tidy up you would be safer with a sanding block, less chance of shredding your own hands and compromising his hoof wall. http://aepsupplies.co.uk/index.cfm?sid=21583&pid=330564&item=26481
Click to expand...

This. :)

Oberon, you're wasted, are you going to go into nutrition or barefoot rehab? You should ;)
 
snopuma said:
I know!!! what was weird was that she would go to great lengths to discuss diet etc... and on the first visit explained to me that his concavity would improve in time, then all other trims were about hacking into the sole to 'create concavity' it never worked and he is so much sounder now with the farriers lad trimming him,
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This sounds a very similar experience to a friend who had a trimmer trained by Strasser. She didn't get a second trim in though. :mad: The owner felt very misled apart from lots of other emotions.
Everyone do beware this sole trimming despite the seemingly other good advice.
 
Milanesa said:
Interesting thread. I have a tb that I would like to take fronts off but am worried as he is v sensitive to shoeing. My others are all barefoot now just fronts from my tb. Should I just go for it??
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YES he will be sensitive to shoeing because it isnt doing him any good! Im trying to find an article iv read about shoeing recently Il post it when i do. The main thing is to get his diet right so make sure his feed doesnt contain mollases for starters and that YOU are well enough informed to take him there. Check out some of the books that have been recommended on this thread :)
 
I have only heard of one horse that has been taken the entire correct journey into barefoot and which cannot cope with barefoot for the whole year - the horse is massively metabolically challenged and spends part of the year shod and part barefoot. Most horses will thrive in time with the right conditioning which is highly like to require boots. If you think about it a horse that is sensitive being shod, or after being shod, or when shoes are taken off, does not have healthy feet. The shoes are a sticking plaster. It's not to say they can't be healthier with shoes on, but change is needed.
 
Milanesa said:
Interesting thread. I have a tb that I would like to take fronts off but am worried as he is v sensitive to shoeing. My others are all barefoot now just fronts from my tb. Should I just go for it??
Click to expand...

Go for it...when you have the right information on diet and trimming under your belt and you have a supportive hoof care professional and some hoof boots for him.

Not meaning to patronise you:) but would never want anyone to whip the shoes off without preparing how to keep the horse comfortable during the transitional phase.

Tb's often suffer from poor feet and my theory (as well as poor hoof care) is that they are very sensitive to sugar...much more than we realise. But they are often fed 'competition' or 'conditioning' feeds that are just poison to them and these symptoms are seen in the hooves with poor wall connection or crumbling walls....:(
 
Milanesa said:
Interesting thread. I have a tb that I would like to take fronts off but am worried as he is v sensitive to shoeing. My others are all barefoot now just fronts from my tb. Should I just go for it??
Click to expand...


This foot belonged to a horse who had to be shod one front foot at a time, because he could not stand on a bare foot to have the shoe put on the other one. He evented after 8 months, affiliated Novice, having been told by a young and an old farrier that he would not be able to go without shoes. He's been without them for 7 years now.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4xRQ_EewtyQ/TjMoVkLo71I/AAAAAAAAAt0/KB-4mdTCuFU/s1600/17SEP006.JPG
 
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