After seeing a few threads...

I haven't read the articles but from my understanding of physiology, in regard to muscle/bone/cartilage/tendon etc work i.e. impact and stretching is good for building density and strength. The same applies to humans. However hard work, or that that is seen in yearling/2 year old racehorses probably could be considered to be too intense, however I think it all depends upon the individual you consider. For example the wonderful Yeats ran and won as a 2 year old and went on to have an illustrious and as far as I know injury free career before beginning stud duties. You have to also look at Kauto Star, he was running over hurdles in the March of his 3 year old year (just turned 3 so would have been in training as a 2 year old), and now age 11 has won his 15th Grade 1 and has his sights set an another Gold Cup this spring. Food for thought.
 
Laura_Grey said:
I haven't read the articles but from my understanding of physiology, in regard to muscle/bone/cartilage/tendon etc work i.e. impact and stretching is good for building density and strength. The same applies to humans. However hard work, or that that is seen in yearling/2 year old racehorses probably could be considered to be too intense, however I think it all depends upon the individual you consider. For example the wonderful Yeats ran and won as a 2 year old and went on to have an illustrious and as far as I know injury free career before beginning stud duties. You have to also look at Kauto Star, he was running over hurdles in the March of his 3 year old year (just turned 3 so would have been in training as a 2 year old), and now age 11 has won his 15th Grade 1 and has his sights set an another Gold Cup this spring. Food for thought.
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Yes that is very true about the physiology and how exercise/loading etc aid adaptations-good or bad. Micro-cracking is basically seen to be extremely beneficial to horses bone, but macro-cracking can actually end a career as it can lead to more serious injuries (I should have those the right way round-I even just did an assignment on this :eek: ha! Feel free to correct me if I have it the wrong way round). But obviously excessive over loading of any part of the horses body can be career ending at a very young age or any age really.
 
Spring Feather said:
I have PMs switched off. Are you able to paste it on here?
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I'm not sure if it is legal (under copyright laws) to copy and paste it onto here :confused:? It's a very long and in depth study as well, and a lot of it you have to refer to the other studies included to get the whole picture of what it says.

If you type the title into google then it does give you the abstract of the study and I think on some of the abstracts even a few results if that's of any use?
 
Basic summary is -

foals and older young stock MUST be turned out.

Exercise, as long as it is less than the maximum that the joints/tendons/bone can stand, is very beneficial to later strength of those structures in the adult horse.

Foals not allowed exercise cannot always catch up development, there are "windows" of opportunity up to 6 months for soft tissue/cartilage and 1-2 years in bone density.

I could find nothing about arthritis but I did speed read and might have missed it. There is no study on longevity of working life either, I think.

Conclusion was basically that - provided the horse is properly prepared and not over-stretched (BIG proviso,that) - there are probably benefits to introducing as early as possible the kind of work that you intend the horse to do as an adult. EG start lateral work early in a dressage horse, loose jump eventers/showjumpers as 2 or 3 year olds etc.
 
Laura_Grey said:
You have to also look at Kauto Star, he was running over hurdles in the March of his 3 year old year (just turned 3 so would have been in training as a 2 year old), and now age 11 has won his 15th Grade 1 and has his sights set an another Gold Cup this spring. Food for thought.
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Yes but if you look for a similar unique individual amongst eventers who don't start serious work until they are five under BE rules, you would find 18 year olds and maybe even older still competing seriously at Badminton and sometimes winning (Horton Point was 16 when he won and put down at 32, Stand by Me evented at 20 in the 2010 World Equestrain games).

Surely you'll never see a 20 year old competing in a National Hunt race???


I think we need studies of longevity before we can really tell what is going on.
 
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cptrayes said:
Basic summary is -

foals and older young stock MUST be turned out.

Exercise, as long as it is less than the maximum that the joints/tendons/bone can stand, is very beneficial to later strength of those structures in the adult horse.

Foals not allowed exercise cannot always catch up development, there are "windows" of opportunity up to 6 months for soft tissue/cartilage and 1-2 years in bone density.

I could find nothing about arthritis but I did speed read and might have missed it. There is no study on longevity of working life either, I think.

Conclusion was basically that - provided the horse is properly prepared and not over-stretched (BIG proviso,that) - there are probably benefits to introducing as early as possible the kind of work that you intend the horse to do as an adult. EG start lateral work early in a dressage horse, loose jump eventers/showjumpers as 2 or 3 year olds etc.
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As I'd said, some of the information is in the other studies which are referenced (such as the arthritis and what time period these horses were studied over). Not all is in that study, but the majority of the information is. Thanks for summarising for others though :)
 
Santa Paws said:
Basic summary is -

foals and older young stock MUST be turned out.

Exercise, as long as it is less than the maximum that the joints/tendons/bone can stand, is very beneficial to later strength of those structures in the adult horse.

Foals not allowed exercise cannot always catch up development, there are "windows" of opportunity up to 6 months for soft tissue/cartilage and 1-2 years in bone density.

I could find nothing about arthritis but I did speed read and might have missed it. There is no study on longevity of working life either, I think.

Conclusion was basically that - provided the horse is properly prepared and not over-stretched (BIG proviso,that) - there are probably benefits to introducing as early as possible the kind of work that you intend the horse to do as an adult. EG start lateral work early in a dressage horse, loose jump eventers/showjumpers as 2 or 3 year olds etc.
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A couple of questions (sorry). :o

RE turnout. Did they mean 24/7 turnout or is just a few hours a day enough?

RE early work. Does in-hand work count or were they just looking into ridden work?
 
Meowy Catmas said:
A couple of questions (sorry). :o

RE turnout. Did they mean 24/7 turnout or is just a few hours a day enough?

RE early work. Does in-hand work count or were they just looking into ridden work?
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Basically the turn out is as much as possible. The more turn out a horse has the more beneficial it is to them.

Regarding the work-it can be inhand (ground work lunging, long reining etc, but not really leading) or ridden work. A lot that was focused on was ridden work, but the other studies references do also relate to ground work as well. In hand work (if you mean leading etc, not sure if you also mean lunging and long reining) will be beneficial to a horse in some respects, but not as beneficial as ground work or ridden work
 
A few hours a day was not enough. It needed to be full time. They tested restricted exercise versus full time turnout and it was necessary for optimum strength for the youngsters to be gambolling in a paddock. They came to the conclusion that young horse play behaviour with sudden spurts, stops, turns etc was needed to develope the bones, tendons and cartilage. The horse did not need to be ridden at that stage, the exercise loose was enough.

In hand counts. What they reckoned was that, for example, if you want a dressage horse to do shoulder in at four or five, then you would start doing shoulder in very young in hand to create the muscles, tendons and the joint development which the older horse will need to do that exercise. This is my example, not theirs, but it's what I believe the article to mean.

cptrayes
 
Santa Paws said:
A few hours a day was not enough. It needed to be full time. They tested restricted exercise versus full time turnout and it was necessary for optimum strength for the youngsters to be gambolling in a paddock. They came to the conclusion that young horse play behaviour with sudden spurts, stops, turns etc was needed to develope the bones, tendons and cartilage. The horse did not need to be ridden at that stage, the exercise loose was enough.

In hand counts. What they reckoned was that, for example, if you want a dressage horse to do shoulder in at four or five, then you would start doing shoulder in very young in hand to create the muscles, tendons and the joint development which the older horse will need to do that exercise. This is my example, not theirs, but it's what I believe the article to mean.

cptrayes
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Good example of how the in hand work can be used. Information I have taken from these studies is more related to the racing and show jumping aspects and not a great deal can be done there inhand as such.
 
That's interesting. My gelding was stabled at night before I got him at 16 months old. He's now turned out 24/7 and I walk him out in hand down the lanes regularly.

I was just wondering whether the nightly stabling when he was young was a negative thing and whether his in-hand work counted as a positive in regards to his development.
 
Meowy Catmas said:
That's interesting. My gelding was stabled at night before I got him at 16 months old. He's now turned out 24/7 and I walk him out in hand down the lanes regularly.

I was just wondering whether the nightly stabling when he was young was a negative thing and whether his in-hand work counted as a positive in regards to his development.
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Walking down the lanes inhand (honestly thought you had meant mainly school work in hand:o) will have been beneficial in some respects as there will have been concussive forces through the limbs, which can lead to micro-cracking which in turn leads to new bone formation and strengthening of the bones. If some hill work was also involved (even if not massively steep hills) then this is also beneficial.

If he was stabled for the majority of the time before you got him, then it could have been detrimental to his development. As he was stabled at night, it probably would of had an effect on him but he may not have as much adaptations physiologically compared to a horse which was given 24/7 turn out.
 
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Meowy Catmas said:
Unfortunately there are lots of hills and most of them are very steep. :( ;)

Thanks for answering my questions. :)
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No problem! Didn't mean steep hill work has a negative impact by the way, it definitely is beneficial. But personally for young horses (and even if a study said the opposite) I wouldn't want to be walking and trotting babies up steep hills. A more gradual incline, IMO, would be more beneficial and then encourages everything to be built up slowly. This isn't the opinion of everyone though, just what my personal preference would be :)
 
I'm in Wales so the hills cannot be avoided.

I wrote 'unforunately' because I'm not fit enough yet despite lots of walks. The horses don't seem to tire in the same way that I do (I really thought that I would be fitter by now) infact I think that they speed up on the way home. There's no way that I could trot them up the hills as that would mean that I have to run! :p
 
Santa Paws said:
Yes but if you look for a similar unique individual amongst eventers who don't start serious work until they are five under BE rules, you would find 18 year olds and maybe even older still competing seriously at Badminton and sometimes winning (Horton Point was 16 when he won and put down at 32, Stand by Me evented at 20 in the 2010 World Equestrain games).

Surely you'll never see a 20 year old competing in a National Hunt race???


I think we need studies of longevity before we can really tell what is going on.
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I do agree with you but do all horses retire from racing because of injury or it because they have lost their speed? My 14 year old pointer is about to embark on his 9th season, he is (touchwood) injury free and as fresh as ever after 46 races. He will be retired after the season, not because he is injured but because he just doesn't have the speed that the 6/7 yo he is up against possess. He has many years as a eventer/jumper in him - because its not purely about speed.

It's a good point though!
 
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