after todays flag incident at badminton......

there are already plastic/rubber flags about, my son plays rugby and they have to have these kinds of flags on the pitch, so they are readily avalaible, I hope a lesson will be learnt from today and someone reviews the use of wooden flags,
and hopefully this freak accident will never happen again,
 
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I was there, it was so awful. Those who were there, did you think it took a long time for the judges/stewards to react to us all srceaming for a vet?

It was definately a wooden flag, as someone picked it up and it had splintered etc. BE are trying to keep the horses saftey in mind, so why has no one ever thought of this?! well maybe they have but i would have thought that badmiton would have the best saftey ever!

it is aso very sad about skwal. RIP both horses and my thoughts are with the owners/riders/grooms etc.

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Agree with everything you have said......sadly
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I think a pole as used in skiing would be rather bad, they wip lash back and might hit the horse, which is so much longer than a skinny skier.
I have no idea how they fixed the flags and he poles, but plastik ties as they are used very often over here ( across the pond ) will very easily brake and let the flag drop, any kinde of PVC pole would be very bad they splinter into very sharp pieces, worse than would. A nylon type pole with a brake away tie, as those automotive plastic ties would be a good solution
 
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I was there, it was so awful. Those who were there, did you think it took a long time for the judges/stewards to react to us all srceaming for a vet?

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No. I was there as well and we were shouting for the stewards to call for a vet and they already had called the vet instantly. It just took a while for the vets to arrive but that is not the fault of the stewards.
 
It is very sad.
How many times did the flag get knocked down at huntsman's close at the corner. Nearly every rider had it down. Apparently they are just clipped on with plastic tie wraps.
I think that although noone probably considered this as a consequence before, something should certainly be done to improve the safety following this poor horse's tragic death although chances are it would never happen again.
It was horrific enough to watch on TV but for those of you who were there, I feel terrible.
Jo
 
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It was definately a wooden flag, as someone picked it up and it had splintered etc. BE are trying to keep the horses saftey in mind, so why has no one ever thought of this?! well maybe they have but i would have thought that badmiton would have the best saftey ever!

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It was not the fact that the pole broke that caused the injury. It was the bottom 'blunt' end of the flag pole that caused it. The pole only broke as the horse trod on it when he landed. the damage had already been done.
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I agree with everyone here-- it is very sad.

Many years ago I saw Mark Davies and his horse killed at Burghley. The images of the accident are still as fresh in my mind today as at the time it happened. So I do sympathise with all those who witnessed this dreadful accident first hand.

Without a doubt, something is bound to come out of it that will hopefully stop a similar accident. Do fence flags need to be pointed? Could you just havea circle of hardboard or whatever, cut in half, put the left half circle on the left flag post and the right half circle on the right flag post? In other words, design out sharp edges as much as possible.

I suspect and hope, that what ever is decided for future Badminton's will become the eventual standard for the sport.

There is and never will be such a thing as "absolute safety". Nor would it be desirable, as nobody would ever be able to do anything. But we do need to learn from and minimise the risk of this type of accident happening again in the future.
 
"This is a dangerous sport! Oh, unless we remove the flags and the jumps! "

Of course its a dangerous sport, anything we do involving horses and I am not for one minute suggesting we make rubber fences or something!!! I'm merely suggesting we eliminate risks that should really be there!
 
Yes i do think the design and materials should be revised, one accident is one too many, as mentioned, there is a high degree of risk with this sport and you cant get away from all the dangers, but there are so many things we can do, like change those bloody flags, i agree that although it was a freak accident, it was an accident waiting to happen at the same time
 
I dont think plastic is the answer, have you ever broken an electric fence post, its sharper then wood.
I would also be concerned about the ski poles springing back and hitting the horse.
Perhaps foam ones they if they broke would just crumble or be squished hence nothing to hit the horse and nothing sharp either!
 
I think foam is the way forward.....although it will have to be quiteheavy duty stuff not to blow about in the wind but if they are made from high density thick foam this shouldnt be a problem. I really do hope BE sort this out.....its been a bit of a concern of mine for a while evenr since batting my knee very hard on one and being in considerable pain afterwards! And obviously yesterdays sad tragedy just shows what can happen in certain circumstances
 
there was nothing wrong with the action taken b the stewards yesterday. We were opposite the judges and went running over. AFTER radioing for a vet, so to say they took their time isnt true. EVRYBODY did there best to save the horses life
 
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Yes i do think the design and materials should be revised, one accident is one too many, as mentioned, there is a high degree of risk with this sport and you cant get away from all the dangers, but there are so many things we can do, like change those bloody flags, i agree that although it was a freak accident, it was an accident waiting to happen at the same time

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I agree with these sentiments exactly. You cannot eliminate all risks but surely you could change the design/fabric of these flags fairly easily. An action which will hopefully prevent this kind of accident again. It is important to learn and make changes as required after such an incident. That is the least that can be done now in the honour of this horse. I was just a couple of jumps away when this happened - Had just seen this horse jump beautifully and alerty over skinny log a couple of fences beforehand. Having watched the footage on the TV I do feel very sad.
 
hollyjane and others- yes i do agree that it should be looked into and i dont doubt that.
i think that maybe looking at bendy poles is the way foward....i havent had time to read al of the posts but was it definatly a wooden pole or was it plastic...as i have heard conflicting results.


another thing is when i was walkin the course at keysoe today was that on a fence which i would have thought they would have had a velcro fastening to the post they had it clampled with a metal clip....
 
Having been there and actually walked that fence with lucinda green i would say honestly - a freak accident. Lucinda actually showed us how the flag is attached to the jump by velcro so it easily knocks off
A sad freak accident and my heart goes out to all involved, it was a horrible thing to happen
 
You are right sunflower, they are attached with a piece of velcro tape (one line on the fence, one on the flag, so not wrapped) so they fall easily.

Having seen the frame by frame of what happened yesterday, there is absolutely NO doubt this was a totally freak accident. I do not think you could come up with odds of what happened happening because so many factors were involved. The horse did not just glance off the pole, indeed if the tragedy had not have happened I think it would have been called as to whether the horse jumped true between the flags as I do not think it did because it skewiffed so much in the air.

I still think wood is good as it DOES break - these other ideas would also cost one hell of a lot to make. Some have been saying ski-type poles - the bendy ones - absolutely NOT going to work, the wind would make them sway too much - foam - ditto - wood is and always will be, more than likely, the first choice. I very much doubt another incident such as this will ever happen.
 
I havent managed to catch a re-run of the footage so didnt actually see him going over the jump...(i was nearer to the colt pond where he fell) but most people around seemed to conclude that it really was a bizarre accident.
 
We pay enough to register BE for them to look into ruber or alternative flags

How many times does afreak accident need to happen for something to be done about it??

When thinking about it at that fence it could have happened at any time loads vered off right
 
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We pay enough to register BE for them to look into ruber or alternative flags

How many times does afreak accident need to happen for something to be done about it??

When thinking about it at that fence it could have happened at any time loads vered off right

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Agree with your sentiments Holly Jane. One horse death is enough rationale for changing something that can easily be amended. Even if softer wood was used that breaks up easily. I don't have the exact answer, I don't design XC courses, but I DO believe that there should be a serious enquiry into the alternative structure/options regading flags. I don't want to see that on TV again - It made dreadful and saddening viewing. Why see this again if it can be avoided??? Also the next horse on the BBC viewing also tipped into the flag.....so it must be a fairly common occurence.....
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QR: not all the flags are on by velcro. Commentary team were discussing it as some have those plastic ties which snap under pressure

Think yesterday was a freak accident.
 
The article in H&H a couple of weeks ago on the vicarage vee showed the flag plainly in each one, and it was definitely attached by a tie wrap and not by velcro (though perhaps the velcro was used this year I don't know??).
I have been thinking about suitable materials, and my stable mats are made out of EVA type foam rubber. Even a thin strip of this is quite rigid, so that may be an option to make flag out of.
Even here in backward old Ireland, we have plastic poles, and velcro attachment for corner/skinny type fences, so I'm sure some sort of safe BE approved new flags can be introduced, would only be needed on certain types of fences so not a great expense.
(Can confirm that plastic poles can splinter though, OH's horse slid accross the back rail of a parallel and hit the plastic post, he had quite a nasty stifle wound).

Fiona
 
the flags were attached by velcro this year, you can see on this photo

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I really don't think having a plastic pole would have made any difference in this case.
 
Thanks for the pic, I was looking at last years when I said you could see the tie wraps.
But I still think that a shorter rubber/bendy plastic pole would have fallen away into the ditch.

Fiona
 
No Fiona it wouldn't. Sunflower has shared her images with me and the horse carries the flag and skews in the air continuing its (the flags) journey - it is hard to explain, but in this case the only thing that would have ensured no injury would have been no flag at all, which is not a possibility.
 
A rubber flag would not of caused injury. Or a flag made out of that thin wood that those little planes are made of. There is a 100% oportunity that could of been helped so for god sake I hope they learn from this and put something different on that fence and fences alike in future so that there isnt another death.

When something goes wrong let alone a fatality something has to be done or at least tried to be improved so that doesnt help again. This is a horses life for crying out loud, like a humans life, we would do anything to make ourselfs family safe so why not our horses when we invest so much money into them and to compete
 
I really think that any material rigid enough to 'stand up' as a flag pole would have caused a similar injury.
 
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