Aggressive cushings pony

[hellfire]

One of my shetlands has had cushings for about 4 years now and is on preds. Every year the dosage has to go up and every year his aggression follows.
I’m at the point where I’m feeling I can’t keep him anymore. He’s not aggressive with humans although can be grumpy and aloof.
Even his pair bond Sparky has started giving him a wide birth he’s that bad. My other mini Shetland is seriously lame because his bullying has become so bad kicking and lunging he’s been on box rest for weeks. Feed time is especially bad to the point I’ve now been kicked and knocked over a few times.
I do hay 4x a day as they are all natives and have one with IR. He runs down the field then whichever horse is closest launches a attack ears back mouth open runs to them swings around and kicks, he goes to every horse doing the same even if one is stood hand way down the field or having a pee!
The issue then is as I’m doing the first pile or net whoever is stood near me gets kicked and often I’m there in between them.
Bar separating him I’m at a loss.
Has anyone any recommendations on maybe supplements to help him? He often doesn’t want a feed and will walk away. He’s been challenging my big lad now who knocked me over tonight moving out Minstrels way. Dakota now won’t stand still at feed or hay time as expects a attack so has taken to circling me which Is making things worse and now he’s stressing.
As you can tell I’m at the end of the line now and it’s got to the point I can’t cope with him being so nasty to everyone. My poor mini Shetland who’s lowest in the pecking order is being driven from every bit of hay I put out and even if they are on grass driven around by minstrel. He’s now having a X-ray as he’s been lame too long.
They all used to be so close playing and grooming each other. Minstrels just turned into the play ground bully. I’m so saddened and the vet doesn’t know what to suggest.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I would separate him immediately, it's not fair on the others and could result in vets bills or even damage to you. I've done this with a bully.
Can you put him somewhere where he can be the other side of the fence to the others?
I'd then monitor how he is over a week to 10 days.
Has your vet run bloods to check for anything else apart from cushings levels?
Chat again to your vet. If his temperament is still very suspect after being separated a while, and there is nothing else medically wrong with him, there are worse things than pts of a potentially dangerous animal.
I hope you can resolve this but I cant help on any feeds or additives apart from sedatives that might help.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

This sounds like a management issue in the short term. I would separate him, at least at feeding time, or if you think he will still bully the others, all the time. If it only happens when you increase the Prascend dosage, this short-term solution might be sufficient and you could put them all back together. If it becomes a longer term issue, rather than keeping him separate, I would consider pts, in his and the herd's best interests.

 

[southerncomfort]

Agree with all the above and I think it would be worth having a chat with your vet about how well his cushings is now being controlled by the Prascend.

Unfortunately cushings is progressive and Prascend doesn't work forever sadly.

Also, sometimes the dose is so high that it causes horrible side effects and I have known people lower the dose in that situation at least in the short term.

 

[hellfire]

Thanks for the replies.
Every year the vet increases the dosage as his levels elevate.
I think I know the two options are the possible reality with separate or pts. There is no where I can put him where they can see each other where they currently are in their restricted ration field as I call it.
I tried electric fencing but he just goes through with a full whack from a Gemini 120 on It.
Ive already got a big vet bill from Angus being lame and if the xrays show its a break then the vet said he has to be pts as wont get any better. Bad enough I have to prepare for that possible scenario. Separating him at every feed time is not something I’m willing to do 4x a day with hay and once a day with bucket feeds so 5x a day. Plus the last lot of hay is at 10.00pm.
It would have to be permanently.
This has been going on for years and sadly the aggression is just getting worse and last year after the dose increase I found as his meds were increased so did his aggression. After a few months it subsided slightly then elevated again.
There seems to be a pattern in my mind and know his levels have risen before his blood tests as his aggression rises.
Then when the dosage is increased it rises again. So with that pattern I suspect he will be like this for months then a slight decrease, then elevation in aggression again, blood tests again to find his level has risen, increase of dosage, rise in aggression. Defiantly a pattern going on. Bar the aggression the only symptoms of cushings he ever showed was not shedding his winter coat properly (normal winter coat) and he became lethargic being ridden and driven when he’s always been a little rocket.
He still doesn’t shed so clip but he’s far from lethargic now to the point the young girl who rides him says he’s ignored her aids a few times as just wants to go like a bat out of hell and he’s kicked out at any horse behind him. Same with driving he’s become more difficult. He loves going out but if he becomes any more forward I won’t be driving him.
I’ll speak to the vet again see if there is another issue going on causing this. He’s had a full health check but not other bloods done.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

In that case OP, once every avenue is explored, if you have no joy then I'd be very inclined to take him off the meds, enjoy him for a week or so and let him go x

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

In that case OP, once every avenue is explored, if you have no joy then I'd be very inclined to take him off the meds, enjoy him for a week or so and let him go x

Just what I was thinking!

 

[deb_l222]

Prascend made my mare aggressive, not only with the other horses but with people as well. Her levels were never particularly high so I stopped the meds and she just lived the rest of her life un-medicated. I never had her tested again as there was little point if she wasn't going to go back on them. She went on another 3 years from initial diagnosis.

It was colic that got her in the end, which could have been cushings related but doubtful.

Could you not reduce his dose until he's a pleasant fellow again, then just let him live out his life until something dramatic happens, then let him go?

 

[hellfire]

Prascend made my mare aggressive, not only with the other horses but with people as well. Her levels were never particularly high so I stopped the meds and she just lived the rest of her life un-medicated. I never had her tested again as there was little point if she wasn't going to go back on them. She went on another 3 years from initial diagnosis.

It was colic that got her in the end, which could have been cushings related but doubtful.

Could you not reduce his dose until he's a pleasant fellow again, then just let him live out his life until something dramatic happens, then let him go?

It’s interesting to hear another persons story of a horse turning aggressive. My vets not encountered it before but has heard of it happening.
Yes colic could be due to many things. I think for me logically and for everyone’s sake reducing meds maybe the way to go and accept the consequences of possibly loosing him earlier. I just don’t want him to feel like crap and that’s what the vet is concerned about taking him off the meds.
In my eyes he can’t be feeling good being so aggressive surely. It’s a real concern if he goes to the next level of aggression towards people. As he is he’s not shown any to people but he’s become very aloof not wanting to be in contact with people or fussed. He used to always come over to anyone for a scratch and to see if they maybe had a tit bit. Now he just glares at a distance or if he does come over has a go at the other horses which means I can no longer have the kids in the field just encase!

 

[splashgirl45]

i would think the cushings is out of control if his levels increase every time he is tested. my 15.2 25yr old mare had cushings and at the end was on 4 prascend a day and the levels were still rising she was not aggressive but became a little pottery and i PTS before it turned into laminitis. your lad may be in pain and i would suggest that now is the time to let him go, he doesnt sound like a happy pony and may become dangerous to ride which is too much to risk

 

[paddy555]

It’s interesting to hear another persons story of a horse turning aggressive. My vets not encountered it before but has heard of it happening.

when my haflinger first went onto prascend he went crazy. Hyper, like the Jungle Bunny on speed. Totally trashed the place for 3 months. Fences, rails, anything that got in his way. After 3 months he settled down and became normal. I wouldn't have dared to ride him for those 3 months.


I think in your position I would try and separate him for safety on a temporary basis and then reduce the prascend by 1/4 tablet at a time. Say a quarter reduction every 2 weeks or so. Stabilise him on the new reduced dose and see if by doing that you can reach a level where he resorts to being an acceptable pony. If he gets ill with the cushings then so be it but that is no different than PTS now. OTOH you may get him to a level whereby he is driveable and he becomes more pleasant to the others and can carry on with his life. Could be worth a try.

 

[hellfire]

when my haflinger first went onto prascend he went crazy. Hyper, like the Jungle Bunny on speed. Totally trashed the place for 3 months. Fences, rails, anything that got in his way. After 3 months he settled down and became normal. I wouldn't have dared to ride him for those 3 months.


I think in your position I would try and separate him for safety on a temporary basis and then reduce the prascend by 1/4 tablet at a time. Say a quarter reduction every 2 weeks or so. Stabilise him on the new reduced dose and see if by doing that you can reach a level where he resorts to being an acceptable pony. If he gets ill with the cushings then so be it but that is no different than PTS now. OTOH you may get him to a level whereby he is driveable and he becomes more pleasant to the others and can carry on with his life. Could be worth a try.

I think that’s the best thing to do right now. I’ve left a message with the Vet saying I need to discus this dosage increase with her.
She done a full health check when she was last here and could find no signs of pain but I feel he is not happy in himself like he used to be. I’m not keen on this new vet and she also insisted I double his dose until his next test. I don’t think it’s any life for him or any of us with the way he is. Will see what the vet comes back with but I’m sure she will tell me not to stop the meds.
I think your correct and I should do that see what he’s like decreasing the dosage slightly over time.
He used to adore driving and has always been such a bombproof little guy with loads to give. He’s a shadow of his former self now.
Non medicated cushings comes with risks I know but I think as you say if he gets ill from having no meds and has to be pts at least I’ve tried and he wouldn’t of been pts for being dangerous and me not trying something.
Thank you all for the replies I’ll let you know how he goes and what my vet has to say about the whole thing. A few years ago when his behaviour first changed I was told it was rare to get aggression as a side effect and he will settle.
This has been getting worse for 4 years so I doubt that very much.

 

[Wheresthehoofpick]

We medicated a pony with Cushings. He had always been a grumpy sod. The meds made him worse. We took him off them. Still evil.
His previous owner who had "gifted" him to us decided that he had a brain tumour. No veterinary evidence to suggest that.
He was 28 and dangerous on a family yard with small children.
Maybe he did have a tumour. We had checked everything else. I knew that something awful was going to happen so much as we loved him we had him PTS
Truth is we never really know what is going on. But we do know when a situation becomes unsafe and untenable. Then we have to have the guts to act. And to forgive ourselves.

 

[hellfire]

Just wanted to update you on how mini is at the moment and our recent battles. I slowly reduced his meds down and did start to see a improvement with his behaviour.
The last week he’s been completely off his tablets and has made a good improvement in the fact the other horses will now stand with him, they’ve gone back to grooming each other, he’s coming over to me and others for a fuss, he wants to come in to be taken out in the woods etc, he’s no longer just charging at everyone for no reason and alone all the time.
All of that’s great.
Sadly he’s still aggressive at food time. No where near as bad as he was but he will still charge at the others to bite/kick them. I ended up with hooves 6” from my face the other night.
I’m hoping in time that will settle down.
I’ve started taking the lunge whip in when I do hay to keep them all back away from me until I’m well out the way.
I tried catching him up before every hay feed but this caused issues as they all knew it was hay time and he refused to be caught and tied up while I put the hay out.
I tried putting a hay net with him but the others were trying to muscle in on that and bringing him right in from the field is not a option 4x a day.
So this is where we are at right now. Cushings is not not being controlled at all which does concern me a lot but him and his herd mates are living peacefully again and he’s back to his old self bar when I actually take hay in the field. He still chases my mini Shetland from hay net to hay net but once he finally settles after 10mins it’s peaceful and he will once again share hay which he hasn’t for a long time. Just to clarify he doesn’t need to as there’s 4 horses with 8nets and 4 small piles.
So progress has been made.
I took this picture as this is the first time in a long time he’s stood close and had a doze with one of his friends which made me happy.