Aggressive yearling filly? HELP!

[lastchancer]

Are you sure she's actually being grumpy and not just a timid filly trying to make friends with you? It's hard to imagine an unhandled youngster being confident enough to try to assert authority over you. No idea without seeing her, but a bossy, over confident yearling needs handling very firmly. On the other hand a timid shy one needs encouraging, certainly not frightening with flying buckets or blows to the shins(!)
Get them haltered asap,they won't get any smaller...
And for gods sake don't turn them out until they're handle-able and catch-able whilst in.

 

[vieshot]

Maybe it's just me but I think they need separating. They are so different that it will be hard to train one without a negative affect on the other. Growling and bucket throwing will probably destroy any confidence the little gelding may have.

What went wrong with separating them? They are bound to stress a bit, may attempt to jump out the box etc. we normally hammer another plank of wood above the box so they can't jump out but can still see out fine.

Don't turn them out until they are confident and want to come to you. If you turn them out now then you won't catch them again.

 

[AengusOg]

This horse is bullying you, and her behaviour will escalate into dangerous unless you give her some guidance in how she should behave around you.

It worries me that you say she will push against you and cause you to move away, as this will only give her confidence to be more invasive of your space.

I have a filly here whom I got from a man who fed her by hand thinking that was the best way to form a relationship with her. She started off as your filly is, walking straight into his face and laying her ears back, snaking her head, throwing her head at him, swishing her tail, turning her rear toward him, and he thought it best to keep feeding her. He made no attempt to push her away, or to be assertive, and he didn't see the danger he was putting himself in.

One day the filly launched at him, came right over the top of him, raked his chest with her teeth, and put him right over the fence. The next time he entered her field, she tried to double-barrel him.

That man's problem was similar to yours in that he had two fillies; the one above, and another who was quite nervous and stand-offish. They were giving him such a range of behaviours that he, as a novice, had really no idea what to do with them.

I brought the 'aggressive' filly home, and then put about twenty hours of work into the one he kept, and now the man is happily working away quietly with her and learning from her. His confidence is growing, and the filly is trusting of him.

The one I brought home spent a few days in the stable, where she learned that approaching humans in a non-aggressive manner was more rewarding than not. She was then turned out with my mare who kept her at arm's length for a few days, then with my other filly, then with both of them, then with the two geldings, and now she is no problem at all.

It's really important that you teach your filly that there are definite boundaries in her behaviour toward you. It is essential that you demonstrate to her that you will not yield space to her, so stepping toward her and raising your profile and energy is important. If she can cause you to move away, she will, so you must first stop her as she approaches you and, if she attempts to intimidate you, you must create some fear in her so that she stands off.

If she approaches you with a nice attitude, she can be allowed in, but if she lays her ears back and tries to bully you it is essential that you back her off. She will quickly learn that she will be allowed to approach for a rub or a groom if she is nice about it, but driven away as necessary if she attempts to bully you. Your long-term relationship will be better for a few sharp lessons now.

 

[HBM1]

Maybe it's just me but I think they need separating. They are so different that it will be hard to train one without a negative affect on the other. Growling and bucket throwing will probably destroy any confidence the little gelding may have.

What went wrong with separating them? They are bound to stress a bit, may attempt to jump out the box etc. we normally hammer another plank of wood above the box so they can't jump out but can still see out fine.

Don't turn them out until they are confident and want to come to you. If you turn them out now then you won't catch them again.

Sorry, but if a horse turns its backside to me with a view to kicking a short sharp lob of a rubber skip isn't going to hurt them but it may just shock them enough to stop them in their tracks. That cannot be allowed. There is no one more soppy towards their horses than me, and thankfully I have never had to deal with that sort of behaviour, but lashing out with feet is unacceptable.

I actually had two yearlings (bought as foals though), one female one gelding, they were both very different characters but both were incredibly inquisitive. I never hit them, I teach my horses with kindness and by going back a step or two if necessary. I did advocate being calm and consistent with them...but I will say again, and hope it is taken in the context it is intended..no horse must be allowed to turn to kick...ever...the gelding will see a short sharp reprimand, hopefully followed by kind care giving, which will teach the filly not to behave as she does. This is nothing more than he would see if an adult mare had reprimanded, except they do it with feet and teeth.

Edited to add I never advocated throwing a bucket either...a rubber skip is wholly different - nothing to get their feet caught in and softer.

 

[vieshot]

Sorry, but if a horse turns its backside to me with a view to kicking a short sharp lob of a rubber skip isn't going to hurt them but it may just shock them enough to stop them in their tracks. That cannot be allowed. There is no one more soppy towards their horses than me, and thankfully I have never had to deal with that sort of behaviour, but lashing out with feet is unacceptable.

I actually had two yearlings (bought as foals though), one female one gelding, they were both very different characters but both were incredibly inquisitive. I never hit them, I teach my horses with kindness and by going back a step or two if necessary. I did advocate being calm and consistent with them...but I will say again, and hope it is taken in the context it is intended..no horse must be allowed to turn to kick...ever...the gelding will see a short sharp reprimand, hopefully followed by kind care giving, which will teach the filly not to behave as she does. This is nothing more than he would see if an adult mare had reprimanded, except they do it with feet and teeth.

Edited to add I never advocated throwing a bucket either...a rubber skip is wholly different - nothing to get their feet caught in and softer.

Eh? I don't have an issue with lobbing a bucket at said filly, would probably get worse if it were mine! I merely think it would be better for the pair of them to learn separately.

 

[lastchancer]

Is the photo the OP posted the actual horse? I thought it was just one she'd used to demonstrate what her's was doing?

 

[Alyth]

I think you need to think about your body language as well....if she comes to you with ears back draw yourself up (like to attention - make yourself big!) and if she comes too close start doing jumping jacks (jumping and putting arms out and back!) stop as soon as she looks at you with ears forward!! You must remember to stop immediately!! You don't need to be aggressive to be assertive!!

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Did anyone not see a recent article about this? It was on my Facebook wall so will have to have a look to find it. Basically this was a learned behavoir in mares as this is how they were greeted by older members of the herd. It is a greeting so to speak.

I found it quite interesting. Not saying its right. But if you've ever watched a youngster that pushes bounds in a herd you will see exactly this.

From your first post the mare doesn't seem aggressive. She seems almost lacking in confidence due to the change in circumstance. And I think you really need to know which as in aggressive situation a bucket may be appropriate but for lacking in confidence you will most likely make her aggressive.

Anyway, separating them is going to stress them both. Giving out info on how exactly you deal with this situation with it possibly being misunderstood is tricky. Do they have head collars on? Have they been shut in prior to coming to you? Will they be together with no other horses? Once weather improves any chance of being able to spend 5 mins with each on their own for a brush?

Just trying to understand a bit more than her being ear pinney.

Terri

 

[ReadySaltedPeanuts]

Is the photo the OP posted the actual horse? I thought it was just one she'd used to demonstrate what her's was doing?

Its from google, just used to demonstrate what she is doing

 

[ReadySaltedPeanuts]

Did anyone not see a recent article about this? It was on my Facebook wall so will have to have a look to find it. Basically this was a learned behavoir in mares as this is how they were greeted by older members of the herd. It is a greeting so to speak.

I found it quite interesting. Not saying its right. But if you've ever watched a youngster that pushes bounds in a herd you will see exactly this.

From your first post the mare doesn't seem aggressive. She seems almost lacking in confidence due to the change in circumstance. And I think you really need to know which as in aggressive situation a bucket may be appropriate but for lacking in confidence you will most likely make her aggressive.
This is what now worries me, But i don't want her to think she can get away with standing, nipping and turning her rear on me..

Anyway, separating them is going to stress them both. Giving out info on how exactly you deal with this situation with it possibly being misunderstood is tricky. Do they have head collars on? Have they been shut in prior to coming to you? Will they be together with no other horses? Once weather improves any chance of being able to spend 5 mins with each on their own for a brush?

Seperating them is very stresful for both, they both have headcollars on, the filly is okay without one on all the time, but the gelding needs one on because he is so shy..
They will be turned out with my older horse (6) and i will be able to spend time brushing them seperatly each day in the summer!

Just trying to understand a bit more than her being ear pinney.

Terri

Thankyou all for your advice, even if they are all completly diffrent (Which is why I asked here, to get a wide range of other peoples advice and experiances!)

 

[Aarrghimpossiblepony]

Thankyou all for your advice, even if they are all completly diffrent (Which is why I asked here, to get a wide range of other peoples advice and experiances!)

Just remember you have had them for less than a week.
And in that short length of time as they are so young and are unsettled, nothing regarding their behaviour towards you should be taken as indicative as to how they will behave towards you longer term.

You know you are their new owner this is their new home, they don't.

 

[ReadySaltedPeanuts]

An update to you all, sort of...

Well today, the two went outside in the field for an hour or two while I fully cleaned out their stable area, I put headcollars on both (Just in case.) They had a trot around, abit of a snort and then it was heads down, and just acting like they had been there all their lives..
I think it did them the world of good to stretch their legs, explore, have some good old dr green (Not that theres much of it at the moment!) I brought them in, the filly is much easier to handle, the last day or two I've been explaining that she can't stand on me, and that when I'm skipping out/filling haynets etc. that she can't nip or get too close! Just by pushing her away gently!
Also, all treats are now banned, apart from when being led into/out of the field.. they are alot less nibbly now already, which is great!

I got them in from the field after a few hours out, while I cleaned their area and did bits and bobs around the yard, I popped the leadrope onto the filly's headcollar, gave her a bit of carrot, walked her to the gate and she walked beautifully, not ontop of me or ears back/barging/nipping! She stopped when I asked, we had a little diffrence in opinion on which direction we should go, and whether we should go and snort at the dog or not... But she was brilliant! As its our own private yard and the gelding is alot more timid I shut all gates etc and he followed the filly into the stable quietly behind which was fine. (Didn't want to risk putting a leadrope on and trying to lead him incase he panicked and had an image in my head of him galloping around the field with a leadrope wrapped round his fetlocks!)


Thankyou all so much for your advice, and like I said earlier, I'm sure I will be back here asking many more questions!



You have no idea how happy I am!!!!

 

[AengusOg]

Excellent! Good luck.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Handy bit of info for OP.

Don't let the gelding wander about following you loose. I had exactly the same problem with a young gelding - an amusing read of my journey is on the thread 'My next equine project'.

The getting loose with a rope attached is real problem and the horse will panic if it happens. Get an old lunge line, cut it into two and remove the snap clip. Simply thread the halved line through the headcollar and teach the yealing to lead in a small enclosed space at first. If the horse attempts to get free you will have enough length of line to have a chance of hanging on and turning him, or if you cannot just let go of one end of the line and let it slide free.

Wear gloves and have the line lay between thumb, third and fourth fingers as you would when riding in a double bridle.

It is also helpful, subject to your fencing being suitable, to tie 10/12 inch length of soft rope, (I used a worn out lead rope cut down) and tie it (not clip) to the soft leather headcollar. It will spook him to start with but he will get used to it swinging and accept it. Here is a picture of it on Ted, who was feral and petrified when I had him. Ted wore this headcollar and rope for 6 months, breaking it regularly and I repaired it with electrical tape. It taught him to accept pressure around his head, gave me something to grab to catch him during the period of time when he was too nervous to allow my hand above his head and the general flapping of the rope de-stressed him.

Under no circumstances use my method without a leather headcollar or if your fences are wire,

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Glad things are a bit better OP. It will get easier. Second the info Adorable Alice has given. We have to put these "catch me ropes" on the semi feral ones we get in and they work a treat. But yes caution is well advised. But having slip through ropes is also a good idea too. We always use slip through ropes with foals. They have delicate necks and so no pulling and if one were to get loose the rope comes off.

Terri

 

[riding_high]

sorry not read all the replies but just thought i'd put my thoughts over.

have these 2 always been together and never seperated or only seperated for short periods of time??
it could be that the filly is trying to either protect the gelding OR push him out to make sure she (and only her) gets the attention hence why she is forcing herself on you/in your space.
i had 2 colts and one of them was very much the same, both completely unhandled when i got them but once they realised i was a good person the one didn't want the other one being anywhere near me as he loved his scratches and the attention he got, he would walk over the top of me if i gave him the chance and if i told him to get out of my space he would put his ears back and shake his head before turning his bum on me as if he would to his mum in play.
i got fed up with it so would not go to him first when they were together, yes he would try and push his luck but it wasn't accepted (i'd either ignore him, growl at him or follow the other one if he was chased off) and he soon learnt that i could go and say hello to the other one before him.

 

[ReadySaltedPeanuts]

Update to anyone who is interested!

Filly is so much more calm, we have been doing alot of groundwork, now leads perfectly, she now backs up out of my space and is alot less in your face!

They haven't been turned out for a week or so now, been raining 3 days straight here and ground is sodden again

The gleding is much friendlier, he now leads almost perfectly and both of them enjoy a good groom, the gelding has realised brushes are not scary and wont hurt him, and that actually they are quite nice!

Thankyou everyone for all your advice! Sorry I didn't reply to each post individually, but there were alot, although I have read all of your posts!

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Glad things are going so well. It takes time and patience as well as consistency. Most horses really just want and need to know what's expected of them. That's happening now.

Terri

 

[Strawbz]

Aww, I just read this for the first time and it's lovely to get to the end and read the progress you've made. Good luck OP, they sound a pair of little crackers Have you named them yet?

 

[ReadySaltedPeanuts]

They are in my signature! Two on the left :')