Agility people - 2x2 or Channel?

[Wildforestpony18]

I've started training my boy weaves (Oh joy) and we only have straight weaves for our older boy who can do the weaves. Have been running him through them as channels, but as they become closer, this is becoming a problem as they aren't designed to be channels. We have some channels BUT they're the old distance and I really don't want to be training him the wrong distance. Has been thinking about either buying new channels or buying some of the 2x2 weaves, Have some friends who swear by them but wondering what everyone else thinks. Baring in mind, Channels cost more and if we got 2x2 we could sell our straight and use the 2x2's as straight. But he has already started learning the channels as is, could you swap half way through training and do the 2x2's? So, 2x2's vs. channels, what has worked for you? Thanks

 

[blackcob]

I used Vs for my best dog so I'm not much help but if I was starting all over again with a new dog I'd go for 2x2. I find them more intuitive than channels - my 'speshul' dog couldn't handle channels or Vs but I'd got him well started on 2x2 because it could be broken down into tiny bits with an immediate reward, shame he couldn't cope with everything else.

Absolutely agree not to even try training on the old spacing, it was the thing that confused my dog most about moving from just for fun to competitive training, we'd been using a very ancient set previously. She didn't half shift quicker when she figured it out though.

It may be cheaper to have your existing ones adjusted depending what kind of base they're on?

 

[TurtleToo]

I would forget the channels and go 2x2 from the very start.

I trained my two girls on channels, thinking about introducing 2x2s with one as she has no drive and hasn't developed it with confidence as hoped. Have lightly trained one of my boys with 2x2s (just up to 6 weaves), gave him a break over winter but the drive was unbelievable (he's a very driven dog to begin with though) and am now going to pick up 2x2s this week with him and my new pup (6 months now and will obviously be taking things much slower with pup than with adult)!

Edited to say I bought my stick in the ground weaves from jessejump on ebay, very good quality and cheap, I believe she was selling 2x2 freestanding weaves at the same time although I haven't been on ebay in ages so don't even know if she's still selling!

 

[Wildforestpony18]

I used Vs for my best dog so I'm not much help but if I was starting all over again with a new dog I'd go for 2x2. I find them more intuitive than channels - my 'speshul' dog couldn't handle channels or Vs but I'd got him well started on 2x2 because it could be broken down into tiny bits with an immediate reward, shame he couldn't cope with everything else.

Absolutely agree not to even try training on the old spacing, it was the thing that confused my dog most about moving from just for fun to competitive training, we'd been using a very ancient set previously. She didn't half shift quicker when she figured it out though.

It may be cheaper to have your existing ones adjusted depending what kind of base they're on?

We could have them altered but last time we had weaves altered it took over 6 weeks to get back! We have found some 2x2's we are probably going to buy that will take 2-3 weeks to arrive.

Edited to say I bought my stick in the ground weaves from jessejump on ebay, very good quality and cheap, I believe she was selling 2x2 freestanding weaves at the same time although I haven't been on ebay in ages so don't even know if she's still selling!

Having a BC stick in the ground wouldn't work i don't think, would need a metal base. He is extremely high drive so I think we're going to go with 2x2s!

 

[Oenoke]

I like v-weaves, here's my youngest about her 2nd training session on weaves
[youtube]lKlu37rukVw[/youtube]

and this was her 1st comp, ok we got e'd running past a jump, but she's so happy and confident in her weaves, she's not got faulted once for weaves in the year she's been competing.
[youtube]qgXGGhiaMrg[/youtube]

I don't like channel weaves, taught my oldest this way and he struggled to get it when it was fully closed and ended up with really slow weaves.

I've heard good things with 2x2's, my friend's trained his youngest this way and she's got really good weaves.

But for me, I'm happy with v-weaves and will probably train my next 1 this way too.

 

[TurtleToo]

mine are border collies too but have a great sense of self preservation so stick in the ground weaves have done so far, I think when boy dog gets a little quicker we might have problems with them though!

 

[Henbug]

I'm going to go against the grain here, I trained my dog with channels, v's and 2x2 weaves. I think all of these have an their own advantage and by teaching all methods you have much more flexibility. So for me 2x2s give good drive, channels are great for teaching a dog to stay in weaves (and I have to say when taught correctly and not rushed for drive), v's for entry and exit. I taught all thoroughly before straight upright weaves were introduced. Her weaves are good, fast, driven and secure but to be fair she's a dog with high drive anyway. Having taught the v's and channel I can go back occasionally and open an end a bit either if she starts picking up a bad entry or coming out at the end or just as a preventative measure to reinforce the good behaviour. I think all have their place and I'm often pleased to be able to use all of them as training tools.

 

[Wildforestpony18]

I like v-weaves, here's my youngest about her 2nd training session on weaves
[youtube]lKlu37rukVw[/youtube]

and this was her 1st comp, ok we got e'd running past a jump, but she's so happy and confident in her weaves, she's not got faulted once for weaves in the year she's been competing.
[youtube]qgXGGhiaMrg[/youtube]

I don't like channel weaves, taught my oldest this way and he struggled to get it when it was fully closed and ended up with really slow weaves.

I've heard good things with 2x2's, my friend's trained his youngest this way and she's got really good weaves.

But for me, I'm happy with v-weaves and will probably train my next 1 this way too.

I've tryed them with other dogs, and they haven't worked, but everydog is different! Glad they worked for you

I'm going to go against the grain here, I trained my dog with channels, v's and 2x2 weaves. I think all of these have an their own advantage and by teaching all methods you have much more flexibility. So for me 2x2s give good drive, channels are great for teaching a dog to stay in weaves (and I have to say when taught correctly and not rushed for drive), v's for entry and exit. I taught all thoroughly before straight upright weaves were introduced. Her weaves are good, fast, driven and secure but to be fair she's a dog with high drive anyway. Having taught the v's and channel I can go back occasionally and open an end a bit either if she starts picking up a bad entry or coming out at the end or just as a preventative measure to reinforce the good behaviour. I think all have their place and I'm often pleased to be able to use all of them as training tools.

Never thought of using all of them! Good idea actually, it's just having money to buy each set I think i may stay with 2x2's and for now just keep running him through the makeshift channel's we have

 

[blackcob]

I think that the big advantage channels and Vs have over 2x2 is that they encourage the dog to stay in the weaves for the complete sequence - the behaviour isn't rewarded until the obstacle is wholly completed, whether it's 6 or 12.

I see a couple of dogs at training who were taught on 2x2 who will look for the slightest cue from the handler to drop out, thinking they're all done - it only takes the slightest misplaced 'yes' or 'good' or a step back and they step out.

Saying that, properly taught this shouldn't happen with any method so I think this is probably handler error rather than a big flaw in the method. I just felt that Vs left my dog more well equipped when we started working on independence and proofing the weaves.

2x2 does make for solid entries, I'll give it that.