Agression towards field mates

Gropony

Gropony

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Full disclosure - this is not new behaviour, it has just been a while.

My pony has been in a small group of four for the last 18 months (he is the smallest but probably the strongest). This last two weeks he has started really agressively "playing" with the others. To the extent that if he weren't mine and I was one of the other owners I would not want him in with mine. He has always been rough, doesn't understand when the others want him to stop, barges all over them etc. He was like this at times in his last home, so they regularly put him with a herd of shetlands for a month, which calmed him right down, then he was allowed back with the others.

This last two weeks he has started the chasing. He will start playing bitey face, then start herding by going for the underside of the neck and pushing, then once they turn he will go at them with his teeth, grab the rug near the flank and they are galloping around with him hanging onto the rug pushing and pulling or cornering them. Eventually the other pony will turn and rear, mine going for his throat, they do this a bit and then start double barelling each other. The other pony is not playing, he is defending himself. One of the other ponies came in with a huge bite mark under the throat last week, yesterday he chased one so much it pulled a shoe. He never has his ears back, I honestly think he thinks he is playing. He also doesn't know how to do things like groom another horse, which I find strange. He either thinks they are biting or he licks their face like a dog....

If I am there and I see it, I can yell at him to stop and he will.

This summer he started but the others got fed up and retaliated. He had bite marks for a month (whever I saw, it was always him that started it), and then he started behaving himself, reading cues and all was calm until now. I can't change him into another herd because they are all full and I honestly think it would be dangerous as they are big horses in groups of 8-10. I also want to move him to another livery, but I am very worried that he will start this behaviour and I will end up being moved on.

Personally I worry that he is going to injure one of the others, or get himself injured. He has seen the vet, dentist, osteo and no problems. The only thing that has changed is that I have worked him less because of the weather (the arena was flooded and his hacking partner was off work). When he calmed down last summer I was working him six days a week because he put on a lot of weight. He is generally "pushy" and oblivious on the ground, ridden etc if I am not very strict and consistent (which I am). He will never be a meek pony, he has this sort of nervous energy all the time, but he is never, ever agressive, no matter what.

I don't know what to do. I am going to work him more this week but then I am away for two weeks and my sharer is looking after him, so he won't do much. Has anyone had this sort of behaviour and what did you do?
 
My littlest is like this - personality wise. It's little man syndrome in mine, and the fact that he is to clever for his own good and has a very busy mind. He also needs work to avoid weight issues and this time of year it just doesn't happen as it's so dark of an evening. He generally gets worse when the grass stops growing (so in the last couple of weeks) as he is very food driven and thinks about his belly 24/7.

I had a bale of hay that they all turned their nose up at so he was hungry (although not starved) which spiked the A-hole behaviour too. Now we have a new bale in the feeder he's calmed the attitude a bit.

Not sure what I'm trying to tell you with the above, but hope it helps knowing you are not alone. Luckily for me everyone in my field belong to me.

When you speak to potential new YO be very honest about his behaviour, they should be experienced with introducing new horses and solving problems like that. To me it sounds like he needs a strong matriarch mare to keep him in check. You know the ones that one need to look at another pony to make them behave.
 
foxy1 said:
As tricky as it is, he sounds like he really needs more work. Could you pay a freelancer to exercise him while you are away?
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I am going to ask the yard owner to lunge him (he is too big to ride him and we aren't allowed other professionals on site).
 
dorsetladette said:
My littlest is like this - personality wise. It's little man syndrome in mine, and the fact that he is to clever for his own good and has a very busy mind. He also needs work to avoid weight issues and this time of year it just doesn't happen as it's so dark of an evening. He generally gets worse when the grass stops growing (so in the last couple of weeks) as he is very food driven and thinks about his belly 24/7.

I had a bale of hay that they all turned their nose up at so he was hungry (although not starved) which spiked the A-hole behaviour too. Now we have a new bale in the feeder he's calmed the attitude a bit.

Not sure what I'm trying to tell you with the above, but hope it helps knowing you are not alone. Luckily for me everyone in my field belong to me.

When you speak to potential new YO be very honest about his behaviour, they should be experienced with introducing new horses and solving problems like that. To me it sounds like he needs a strong matriarch mare to keep him in check. You know the ones that one need to look at another pony to make them behave.
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Thank you. I think it is worse around food for sure. He was in a mixed herd with a strong mare in his last home (and the shetlands were run by a strong couple of mares), and he still behaved like this towards the other gelding, and he was awful to the submissive mare (although he wouldn't so much as stray near the dominant mare).
 
dorsetladette said:
To me it sounds like he needs a strong matriarch mare to keep him in check. You know the ones that one need to look at another pony to make them behave.
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He sounds strangely unsocialised - almost like he didn't grow up with other horses. My initial response would also be to put him in with a bossy-pants mare, ideally in a situation where neither / none of them is shod.

The other thing is that he might actually be better in with the bigger horses - he might not try it on so much? You'd need to be careful in trying that though so I can see why you're wary.
 
I think the herd the he is in there is probably no dominant pony or mare. Mares are masters of control and this sort of behaviour which is often because they do not feel safe so they are on guard all the time He would be better matched within something that is placid older but dominant, usually a scowl with put them in their place. As he is smaller he can dodge.
He fighting his way to the top and then is constantly on guard because he is anxious I had some Shetland brood mares as a liveries and they would keep a 16 hand gelding in his place.
 
Widgeon said:
He sounds strangely unsocialised - almost like he didn't grow up with other horses. My initial response would also be to put him in with a bossy-pants mare, ideally in a situation where neither / none of them is shod.

The other thing is that he might actually be better in with the bigger horses - he might not try it on so much? You'd need to be careful in trying that though so I can see why you're wary.
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I am pretty sure he didn't grow up with other horses until the age of at least 2. I am guessing this because I can see his online history (I am in France). The person registered as having bred him has only bred him, and his dam was a mare of 17 years old that had this one foal and no breeding registered. The owner has no other horses registered to them. The dam was then declared dead one year after his birth. He was with a location company being rented out to riiding schools and campsites at 2.5 years old (I know). So I assume he was with his Mum, who died at some point in his first year, then he was alone, then he went to a location place where he was in a stable for a bit and broken in etc, then a campsite (this I know) where he was probably in a small group, then the riding stables, where he was prior to me. They told me that when they got him he was very thin and had no idea how to be a horse, no idea of social rules, completely unable to read cues, very rough with the others (and the rest that I said above).

But he has been in a group from the age to 3 to 9, mainly with a dominant mare. And he hasn't changed much.
 
Jenko109 said:
If he were mine, he would either be in with one 'absolutely no nonsense' field mate who would shut that shit down.

Or he would be on individual turnout.

I wouldn't be subjecting other people's horses to this. It really isnt fair.
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I know, I don't feel that it is fair either. I am going to speak to the yard owner today to get their view.
 
There was one like that in my gelding's field a couple years ago. 13hh or so, and no 'off-switch' or social skills. He'd harass the other horses, wanting to play and play and ignore all requests to get lost.

Until the day my horse decided he'd had enough. Fin knows a thing or two from his wild pony days, living in a herd of 100 horses, including stallions. I turned him out with another gelding, and this pony ran up to them and started doing his thing, trying to start bitey face and chase them when they just wanted to graze. Fin grabbed the pony by the wither, put him on the ground, like stallions do, and held him there. Then when he let him up, spun around and gave him a double barrel for good measure. The pony left Fin and any horse he was hanging out with alone after that.
 
It’s one of those tricky potentially no win situations.

It’s really not fair on the other horses so I do think efforts do need to be made to sort him out. And it sounds like the dynamics in his current herd aren’t right.

Equally, it’s not great to be keeping a bright young playful boy alone for any great length of time.

If he was better in harder work, then it might be that you have to come up with a solution for that I’m afraid.

Regarding turnout companions, you want a matriarch mare in the mix. How you pluck one of those up on a livery yard dynamic, is a bit pot luck. Only you know the set up and the horses you could potentially mix him with. And there is a risk with the bigger ones, but if any are unshod that might be the starting point.
 
I have just been and spoken to the yard owner. Apparently the largest of the group, who.is generally the leader, has put him in his place this last two days.

It seems there is some sort of movement in the hierarchy that is playing out. The lead horse has become very dominant to handle on the ground as well. It could be because the old horse that was at the bottom of the pecking order suddenly decided to stand his ground, which left mine at the bottom For now, they are monitoring.

I will work my pony more and see how it goes for the next few days.
 
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