Ah damnit (question for fish people)

[Chinchilla]

So it looks as if Aries has fin rot again ??
Thought his fins didn't look quite right this morning then got home from essential shopping earlier and found a big chunk of caudle fin lying on the substrate. So started a regime of daily water changes and interpret anti fungal and external bacteria/ fin rot medication.

Not entirely sure what's caused it this time. Last time it was a nitrate spike but my last test results (as per API fresh water master test kit on Monday of this week) were
pH 6.8;
ammonia 0ppm;
nitrites 0ppm;
nitrates 5ppm;
temperature 25°c
Tank is 25 litres

Water is softened with botanicals and it's got driftwood and fluval stratum substrate. Lots of plants including 3 Java fern, countless dwarf water lettuce, Marimo moss balls, and 2 nymphoides hydrophylla var. 'taiwan'. Filtered with an all pond solutions HOB with once or twice weekly 80% water changes (I know, big.)
Oh and he's a royal blue butterfly half moon Betta. Not sure how old but got him in March?
Diet is quite varied; frozen bloodworm, white mosquito larvae, daphnia, brineshrimp and hikari saki bio gold Betta pellets.
No hate please.
But any ideas why this has happened again?! What can I do to prevent it? He hasn't had any trauma to his fins or anything although I did move his tank a few weeks ago from the downstairs animal room to the upstairs one.

 

[Chinchilla]

 

[Chinchilla]

The tank.
Also I ran out of IAL last week so normally there is two big IAL leaves in there too and tannins in the water. Would the comparative absence of tannins/tint this week be enough to make him susceptible to fin rot?

 

[Mynstrel]

My gut feeling would be frequency and volume of water changes are possibly stressing him, plus the tank isn't getting time to build a healthy load of good bacteria - with changing so much so often, it's never getting to settle. Small tanks are difficult to get right because it's so much harder to keep all the parameters stable in a small amount of water. Our smallest tank is our most troublesome one by a long way.

 

[cobgoblin]

Are there any sharp edges he could have snagged his fin on? They look very delicate.

 

[Chinchilla]

I don't think there's anything sharp but will double check tomorrow. I did wonder if he'd got a really small wound maybe and bacteria had got in.

Mynstrel - perhaps except the beneficial bacteria is in the filter media not the water column....? And the parameters are stable; except for the nitrate spike, it's tested 0-0-5 since it was set up....? The filter flow is on its lowest setting as well so there is no turbulence/low flow too.

The one thing I've heard is that it might be too cold for a Betta with long fins to ensure blood supply gets to the ends of the fins. It's hard because I've heard a range of anything from 24-28°c for them so I just plumped for something vaguely in the middle ??

Aaarrrrgghh .

You are right about small tanks though, they're incredibly pretty but such a pain ??? but then my big/frequent water change habit is mostly just a habit from the goldfish, who thrive the more/bigger water changes they get.

 

[PurBee]

He’s a very beautiful fish, wow, incredible ribbon-like fins.

i cant help - my dad had a large tank and with pathogens used a UV tube filter alongside his main filter.

Would he benefit from a friend? Are fish like horses and prefer company?

 

[Chinchilla]

Some fish are sociable but bettas are solitary, they can't live with others of their own kind as they fight. Some can live in community settings but it has to be large enough and I'm not sure I'd put any more than 1 fish in a tank this size, it's pretty small.
I probably get him a bigger tank.

 

[millikins]

I have read that bettas are not long lived fish (3-5 years) and most are at least 18 months old when purchased so he could perhaps have a weakened immune system due to age?

 

[Chinchilla]

Oh my god I hope not ? I can't think of him as 'old', I haven't even owned him a year

 

[millikins]

Oh my god I hope not ? I can't think of him as 'old', I haven't even owned him a year

I hope you find another, treatable cause, he's very handsome.

 

[Mynstrel]

The good bacteria is on every surface in the tank so each time you clean the tank you affect it, particularly if there's any chlorine left in the new water. That's why they say not to clean the whole tank or replace things in it at the same time you clean the filter if you can avoid it to minimise the effects so you don't effectively revert to a "new" tank that needs to be cycled every time you clean it.

My thoughts though would be that a massive water change twice a week would be causing him stress which affects the immune system and makes them susceptible to disease. A single Betta in a tank isn't anywhere near as dirty as a goldfish and if your water parameters are good I think I'd be going for a less is more approach. When we had Bettas I never took more than ten or twenty percent at a time unless we had problems that merited a bigger one. In the wild they live in effectively muddy puddles so they are quite tough and aren't big or dirty fish so a tank that size with a good filter should be ok for him.

The temp sounds ok for him and I doubt a friend would make much difference although you'd get away with a couple of small peaceful fish with him (they get on well with corys) to give him something to look at.

PS - if you have a maidenhead aquatics nearby they are usually quite knowledgeable and helpful, maybe give them a call, or your local fish shop.

 

[Chinchilla]

Okay. I don't think I'll drop my WC down as low as 10% yet but I'll try smaller ones and keep testing parameters and see. Thank you ? unfortunately my nearest Maidenhead aquatics is over an hour away but the LFS I got this boy from might be able to help, they're really good.
My Goldfish do get huge water changes - like 90% once a week then two smaller 50-60% changes. And apparently I'm a creature of habit lol, although it's partly because I have tap water with 30ppm nitrates and they destroy plants, which obviously Aries doesn't. (Everything in his tank grows insanely and the nitrate reading from his tank never exceeds 10ppm so I guess the plants handle it.)
He seems ok this morning though - no more fin has dropped off!! So hopefully caught it early this time around.

 

[Andrew657]

Some thoughts - having had parents that were serious fishkeepers for many years

When you're water changing are you standing the water (or treating for excess chlorine first) would recommend standing for at least 24 hours - possibly more depending where you on the water supply network. Also are you heating water to tank temperature prior to water change.

Are you just removing water with jug/ or siphoning substrate to remove dirt

Would also wonder if you're overfeeding and excess food is rotting in the tank - although water test parameters would suggest not.

Also are you cleaning your filters in removed tank water (tap water with chlorine will kill bacteria which will then pollute tank)

 

[Chinchilla]

Water isn't aged as my water is treated primarily with chloramine not chlorine, but it is temp matched to tank and treated with seachem prime before being added (breaks chloramine down into chlorine and ammonia then neutralises the chlorine). Substrate is syphoned every water change.
Generally I don't clean my filters until the flow is impeded (so not very often) but then it is always done in a bucket of tank water.
He's hand fed for the most part and I stop adding food when he stops taking it, so not sure overfeeding is likely.

 

[melamory]

So it looks as if Aries has fin rot again ??
Thought his fins didn't look quite right this morning then got home from essential shopping earlier and found a big chunk of caudle fin lying on the substrate. So started a regime of daily water changes and interpret anti fungal and external bacteria/ fin rot medication.

Not entirely sure what's caused it this time. Last time it was a nitrate spike but my last test results (as per API fresh water master test kit on Monday of this week) were
pH 6.8;
ammonia 0ppm;
nitrites 0ppm;
nitrates 5ppm;
temperature 25°c
Tank is 25 litres

Water is softened with botanicals and it's got driftwood and fluval stratum substrate. Lots of plants including 3 Java fern, countless dwarf water lettuce, Marimo moss balls, and 2 nymphoides hydrophylla var. 'taiwan'. Filtered with an all pond solutions HOB with once or twice weekly 80% water changes (I know, big.)
Oh and he's a royal blue butterfly half moon Betta. Not sure how old but got him in March?
Diet is quite varied; frozen bloodworm, white mosquito larvae, daphnia, brineshrimp and hikari saki bio gold Betta pellets.
No hate please.
But any ideas why this has happened again?! What can I do to prevent it? He hasn't had any trauma to his fins or anything although I did move his tank a few weeks ago from the downstairs animal room to the upstairs one.

What a wonderful guy you have. Sorry to hear about this situation.
It's happened to my fish before. Massive water change helped to improve the situation as well as a treatment, though I'm not sure it's rot. Usually fin rot in bettas will make the edges a little raggedy, with black or brown edges. For my betta I used malachite green. But what won't probably do any harm is to use some aquarium salt. If he's exhausted it might improve the situation as this treatment kills parasites and disenfects the tank (in case something is wrong with it).
I also know that it happens sometimes to fish under stress (poor water quality, small tank, etc.) or who are having difficulty swimming (can happen with older bettas and long-finned varieties). Maybe moving the tank to another floor caused it? Wishing your little Aries the best.