Ahhhhhhh, head desk!!!!!!

[EAST KENT]

However, Otto was a bit of a special case a) he was a loon and we hoped it might calm him down, b) he came with aggression issues and we hoped it might help ![/QUOTE]

And did it? Springers are completely divided into the small ,active worker,usually pretty light boned and often a bit bow fronted,and the KC show type..really quite a big dog with loads more hair and bone ,bigger ears too. It`s the same in labs,the workers are slighter ,more active and biddable..but very fast, the show ones are very stocky ,heavy and much more power to their heads .I would like to achieve a middle road in ones I breed,getting the KC show looks a bit more but retaining the work drive and stamina.

 

[CAYLA]

Im still of the opinion that small to medium dogs can definately be spayed around the 6-9 month mark and only the larger breeds waiting till the year, I have also with the many hundreds I have owned never had an incontinent bitch and my longest surviving bitch who was meduim sized whippet x grey lived till 17 years and she was never treat for any ailment or illness in her entire life and no incontinence even at 17, she was spayed at 6 months of age.

I also have a 13, nearly 14 year old deerhound also neutered at 9 months, which now I would probably wait till he was a year given he is a large breed, he has also never suffered an illness or ailment in his life, and his breed is prone to cancers and they seldom live to the age he is now and he is fit as a fiddle and exercises the same as my other dogs.

You would be suprised to know incontinence is actually pretty common in large breed bitches regardless of neutering or not, sure I have mentioned this before but we have more bitches at out practice on propalin that are entire than there are spayed.

I absouloutely do not believe eutering younger leaves a dog in puppy limbo either, it actually makes me laugh when I hear that (not mentioned in this psot, but has been before)

So for the health benefits Im still saying small to meduim between 6 and 9 months and large breeds 1 year to 14 months.

 

[kirstyhen]

And did it? Springers are completely divided into the small ,active worker,usually pretty light boned and often a bit bow fronted,and the KC show type..really quite a big dog with loads more hair and bone ,bigger ears too. It`s the same in labs,the workers are slighter ,more active and biddable..but very fast, the show ones are very stocky ,heavy and much more power to their heads .I would like to achieve a middle road in ones I breed,getting the KC show looks a bit more but retaining the work drive and stamina.

Otto is a is a proper working bred Springer, I doubt his breeders had ever heard of a dog show. They bred 'proper' Springers, not ones so small they would be classed as Cockers if Spaniels were still classed according to height. Our last Springer was the same, solid, plenty of bone and working bred through and through.

All Otto's problems stem from learning behaviours before we got him. The castration was done on the basis that every little helps and although it hasn't 'cured' him (and I never expected it would) it has made a difference. It certainly hasn't made him worse!!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Issues with other dogs are down to socialization and training in my opinion; Good owners contain their dogs,so multitudes of mongrel pups don`t happen as an everyday thing now.

So clearly I'm not a good owner? Because other dogs attack my entire dog? 2 dogs do it persistently and according to other people who know them, the dogs do it to all other dogs-hardly my fault! My (entire) dogs have always been 'contained', never unsupervised and have never been allowed to breed indiscriminately. I work damned hard to ensure my dogs are socialised and trained, as well as healthy and happy.

Otto isn't out-sized though, he is bang on the breed standard for height, he is just a big, butch dog. Given that he has always been a big, butch dog (he had a huge chest as a scrawny pup) I don't think he has grown bigger than he would had he not been castrated.

Just to say, I'm not against entire dogs at all

Brig's still entire and is what I consider a 'smallish' Springer. I think Bear's going to be huge, regardless of when he's neutered and Zak is never going to be big, looking at his skull size.

If my vet considers that 6 months is too early, then fine. I'm afraid I won't be swayed by some random person on a forum, though.

 

[EAST KENT]

Oh please do calm down Dear! It could be though that neutering your boy will get him pecked on even more.Sounds like those two errant dogs need containing. Chill

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Oh please do calm down Dear! It could be though that neutering your boy will get him pecked on even more.Sounds like those two errant dogs need containing. Chill

Cor, could you be any more patronising? I have not mentioned neutering my older dog: I see little point in that at his age.

The two errant dogs do need containing, although I spoke to the owner of one today and he admitted that one of his dogs is particularly foul to Brig. I just check the car park for the car and go elsewhere if his car is there: good job I saw him today-new car.

I'm super chill: had the most gorgeous walk with all three dogs today, no problems, all very social and nice, mainly because I just strolled past any potential issues.

 

[EAST KENT]

Glad you may be sorting out those horrid dogs,it`s not nice for you.Patronising,well I did`nt mean to be,but after fifty years of being involved in all sorts of show dogs/working dogs/racers and foxhounds..well sometimes it`s hard not to come over as such. And of course working in a good vets gives you an awful lot of "behind the counter" knowledge.Once upon a time,when I was young and just starting out in my breed ,there was a wonderful lady in bul terriers called Eva Weatherill,she taught me a Hell of a lot about my breed and dogs in general. Certainly no one resented her great fund of knowledge,in fact we all benefitted hugely by it.

Nothing much gets me all over excited any more,and certainly have long since stopped seeing criticism where there is none.

No doubt you find that patronising as well!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Not at all, no. TBH, the main reason I'm on this forum is to access, if not always to necessarily take, the advice of people who know more than me. I've only had my own dogs for just over 7 years and while they were frankly easy, the current two youngsters of the same breed are much more demanding (or maybe I'm older and less energetic!).