Aids for bending/direction

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Frenchmade

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I should probably start by saying that Im in southern France, where things are somewhat different horse wise! I was watching a group lesson given by a teacher my livery yard the other day, and noticed that all the riders were instructed to ask for a bend by raising their inside hand high above the withers, while their outside hand was down below the wither. What are your views on this? The riders weren't beginners, they were adult riders, several on their own horses. Love to hear your opinions, thanks.
 
That is asking for a flexion rather than "bend". The horse should continue to walk/trot/canter forwards while being flexed laterally. It is a suppling exercise.
 
Thanks for replying Casey76. I notice you're in France too. Well, this instructor is using this aid to ask for every bend and change of direction, and also circling, when I would use the direct rein aid. I've only used this aid occasionally when there has been a problem in getting flexion at all ie. as you say, a suppling exercise. I am concerned because someone has asked if they can ride my horse in these lessons. One of the horses consistently stopped and rubbed his face/mouth on his legs. I assume this is because the aid puts pressure on the lips. It's not done in a subtle way, the distance between hands is around 10".
 
Without knowing more, I'd say that I wouldn't want lessons with this insructor! Once the horse knows the aid for a flexion, he should come quickly and easily without pressure on the rein. I would ask for normal bend/pli without lifting the hand, but with a closing of the fingers around the rein, and application of the leg at the girth.
 
You have confirmed my fears. You describe exactly how I ask for normal bend. A couple of the horses, privately owned but who have lessons every week with this woman, were incapable of performing a circle as they were falling so far into the circle with their head and necks. Imagine trying to flex and circle in the same direction, at the same time! Then add draw reins to this scenario. It was awful. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't being over critical. But no, I really don't want my horse ridden in this lesson. Now, how to say no! Oh dear. It's tricky as the instructor owns the yard. My name will be mud.
 
A great dvd is sylvia loch's sensitive schooling... revisiting with my new horse and is brilliant. She explains things so simply! Another good dvd is stephen clarke's through the judges eye.. another great instructor... makes it easy and simple to me anyway.
 
tallyho! said:
A great dvd is sylvia loch's sensitive schooling... revisiting with my new horse and is brilliant. She explains things so simply! Another good dvd is stephen clarke's through the judges eye.. another great instructor... makes it easy and simple to me anyway.
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Thanks tallyho! I might actually get SL's DVD. Perhaps show it to the guy who wants to ride my horse to demonstrate the correct way to do things! I was really asking what people thought of an instructor who teaches using the flexion aid as a turning/bending aid instead of the direct rein/inside leg/with outside rein controlling the degree/supporting. I had my doubts about this instructor, so was/am looking for a bit of confirmation from other experienced riders that this is not the way to go. I haven't schooled a youngster for a few years so I tend to lack a bit of confidence that my methods are correct, especially when bolshy instructors claim to know everything and criticise my methods. Clearly this woman doesn't know her ****from her elbow.
 
Just a little update to say I've bought and watched the Sylvia Loch video and she brings up the subject of (bad) dressage riders raising their inside hand to ask for bend. She describes the result of doing this, and it is exactly what was happening to the horses in the lesson I saw. Thank goodness I stopped my horse from being ridden in this way. Also it's nice to know that what I believe to be correct, is correct! Thanks for the recommendation of the video tallyho. Great stuff.
 
Ah no worries Frenchmade... I'm pleased for you :) I thought the dvd would explain it better than I ever could.
 
Casey76 said:
That is asking for a flexion rather than "bend". The horse should continue to walk/trot/canter forwards while being flexed laterally. It is a suppling exercise.
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I was thinking about this the other day... I dug out some old dvd's, and watched philipe karl's dressage vol1. You are right Casey76... it is a flexion aid... to ask the horse to flex the neck and poll only, not bend. It's very seperate and I presume a french classical dressage method?

Frenchmade... if you want to know more about that, I would buy the classical dressage dvd's by Phillipe Karl and it may help you with other aspects of your riding. Now I have watched it again, I think I may try some flexions with my young horse on the ground!
 
Philippe Karl does actually teach raising of the inside hand to assist with bending. If the horses you saw OP were not doing this well then I would say the riders other aids were not being used correctly and / or they haven't gone through with a systematic training system to teach the horses these aids.

The reason for lifting the hand is to stop the rider from pulling backwards on the reins, bars and tongue, this is a fundamental within PKs school of legerete. It is true that lifting of the inside hand whilst resisting on or fixing the outside hand is the aid for longitudinal poll flexion and this is the first time that the bit is used on the horses tongue and it is defined as a resistance on the tongue rather than a backward or pulling action. So the difference between the aids for poll flexion and raising the hand to bend is that when you ask for bend you keep a light contact on the outside rein but it still follows the mouth and is not resisting or fixed.

This is all taught systematically, firstly using flexions on the ground at a standstill and then in-hand at the walk before doing flexions from the saddle at halt and then at walk. Bending is taught first and several other head and neck positions incorporating changes of balance must be learned before poll flexion which is generally the final piece of the puzzle.

Sorry OP I don't know whether the trainer you saw had anything to do with PK but as he was mentioned I thought I would just provide that little bit of info.

For anyone interested Philippe Karl is going to be delivering his teacher training course near Northampton in two weeks time and spectator places are usually available.
 
How odd - I just gently turn my shoulders/sternum and look where I want to go and that is where my horse goes, I was taught that as your head is the heaviest part of you, the horse can feel it when you move it! ...... all sounds very complicated the other way! I always think a good instructor puts focus on the rider sitting correctly so they don't block the horse and the horse then tends to be able to do as your ask from a very quiet aid, my horse tends to sort the bend out for himself as he is able to step through properly.
 
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Yes they may be useful aids for turning but there are times you might want bend without turning, or counter bending or pronounced bend on a circle for example :) these are useful suppling and straightening exercises
 
Indeed - I was suggesting this from the OP's comment about aids for direction, although even for those exercises for suppling, surely shifting your weight through your pelvis works better than weight on their mouth.... Although I am more than happy to admit my horse is a complicated soul so we do things a little differently to most riders, he is known as a bit of a kevin!!!
 
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