Air Jackets - Anyone got one?

I presently wear a RP, only type of bp I have ever worn xc and is the only bp I can remember wearing for the last 15/20yrs (i had a velcro thing when I was younger).

I have considered the Exo but had concerns in regard to BE rule that you had to declare, although interesting to read your post Kerilli, also the points Oldgit raised.

4yrs ago my RP "saved my life" when horse rolled over me on the flat at a xc event. I suffered major injuries and it took months to recover, but bone wise I had a slight fracture to collar bone. But I have also had falls where the bp has bruised me and casued my only injuries.

I think it is impossible to prepare for every type of fall. And whilst research is essential to ensure horses and riders are safer, isn't the danger part of why we ride?!

I am very much on the fence in regard to P2. Without sounding like a brat money isn't the issue as if my dad was convinced by salesmen the P2 was the best thing for me, and I agreed, he would buy it as safety is paramount and I am an injury prone pleb.

However at the moment I would rather take the money and be taught how to fall properly (as mentioned by someone in a different thread) and have more sessions with trainer to improve in, well, everything when riding.
 
Joss said:
Was chatting to various people at the weekend and it seems a lot are keen on getting these air jackets. Apparently after 'the fall' at Belton hardly anyone went XC without one. They seem to think one would have saved Ian.


Ian's awful accident would not have been any different if he had been wearing the p2. The inquest was held recently and he died from massive head injuries.
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scally said:
There are a few major points that still concern me regarding the air jackets.

Firstly, the CE Approval is only for inflation time only, it has no bearing on how safe or unsafe these jackets are. Secondly in the case of OTs recent fall, the air jacket did not inflate till the horse got up, had he broken his neck the trauma of the air jacket inflating could have been enough to have then caused spinal cord damage, thirdly the deflating that is not humanly controlled could have caused even more injury by distabilising the injury.

You have to remember these were initially developed for motor cyclists, to protect them in an accident, of being laid down on the road, and skidding along it.

The idea is brilliant, however it needs proper medical testing to prove the statements that Point 2 make to be true. At present there is no evidence that the jacket will save, protect or improve your chances in any fall apart from save you from a few bruises. The fact that BE will not approve it says more to me than all their publicity, bearing in mind most profile riders have been given them.

Come on Point 2, lets have the proper proof that these jackets will do what you claim, protect in a serious fall, absorb the full impact of half a ton of horse falling on you, not exacerbate any injury caused by the jacket inflating or deflating late or early, not just stop a few bruises.
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If you look at the photo of oli's fall in eventing magazine then it clearly shows the jacket is inflated as the horse rolls on him, however I agree we would like point 2 to show us more, to help justify the price!
 
i agree with alot of the comments on here.. most cirtainly wont even consider purchasing one until they are approved by the companies that matter, and there is more research and testing done... £424 is a hell of a lot of money!!
 
I bought one at Badminton last week, I had a full demonstration and asked lots of questions. It is extra protection and I have no quarms with that.
I'm not looking for it to save my life, I just want it to prevent a nasty fall which it can do.
 
MasterBronze I could have written that post!! After a visit to the cider stand in Badminton last week OH and I were nicely softened out and subsequently persuaded to invest by the nice man at the P2 stand. Unfortunately he is an extra large (being tall) and I am a medium, so we each had to get one! Ouch on the finances.
As you said it can't do any harm and it is nice to have the extra protection. I feel a little better wearing it and I was impressed by how it supported my neck during the demo.
Gave it it's first outing round a CNC* today (came 2nd so I'm hoping it's lucky!! :D ) and found it very comfy and easy to wear.
 
But the point is it CAN do harm, and no one in the medical professional has been invited to investigate and give a full report on this matter, nor is it approved by any recogonised standard as providing additional safety or protection if you wear it, it is CE approved only on the inflation time!

The most basic first aid that everyone knows is not to move the casualty, but by the air jacket deflating (or worse inflating after the inital injury) it does, and neither the casualty or medical officials can stop it.
 
Any harm caused by a point two imo is a risk far outweighed by the benefits, I think I am correct in saying they deflate very slowly so movement due to deflating would be minimal.

I am very surprised by all the negativity for a product that for me is a major improvement to the safty of our sport all be it at a very high price and I do wonder if there would be so much negativity if they were more affordable.

My take is that they are a great step forward and seemed to have helped prevent what could be horrific injurys in very major falls which include rotational falls where I am yet to see a video showing that one clearly has NOT inflated. Olis was certainly at least partially inflated karen florents totally http://www.point-two.co.uk/equine/index.php

The exo never really took off now that may be due to marketing but also due to the fact it is not very user friendly where is the point 2 is, however it is also a great innovation, and its a shame more do not wear it to properly test it.

I do not yet have a point 2, I also find 424 a lot of money to find , however the longer I sit on the fence the more I think prehaps I am going to have to, if it prevented the need for time off work it would soon be money well spent.
 
You all quote how good they are, but from what scientific of medical point of view, none there isnt any, it is purely on very good marketing, remember Oliver Skeete his marketing was very good!

Until a Point 2 actually (god forbid) causes a serious injury in a rider people will not take the problem seriously, they are designed for motorbike riders where the impact and forces are totally different. If they were life saving dont you think the Jockey Club would have jumped on them, and BE would have got proper approval without a body protector.

They could be a seriously good product however, they need to spend a lot of money on research and design changes, it takes less than a millimetre to severe a spinal cord, not matter how slow the deflation is, that is enough to cripple you permanently any movement in a neck fracture is enough to cripple you for life, they need a button that is manually deflated, not that the jacket deflates itself.

I like the idea, like the product, if the company took their responsibilities and paid for the research to adapt this product to horse riders (specifically eventers), and the risk riders take, not sell a product for a different sport than it was intended without medical and proper approval. This to date has not happened and the company has said it will have open days for the medical and scientific buffs to approve it but this is never forthcoming. You have to ask yourself why?

Not one person can come on here with medical or scientific foundation with why this product is as wonderful as the company say, it is purely good marketing, even Oli Townsend ended up with numerous injuries that if the jacket did what it said he shouldnt have had, the reason he did have is because the jacket did not inflate until the horse stood up, and to the die hards that say it did inflate prior to the horse standing up, then this jacket does not have the ability to cushion the impact that half a ton of horse landing on you in a rotational fall to sufficiently protect you.
 
how can you insist his ( OT ) jacket did not inflate until the horse stood up, you are not sure!
Look at the photograph in eventing magazine to me it shows the jacket was at least partially inflated when the horse was on him.

The jacket may not be as wonderful as the company says however it certainly seems to help prevent serious injury.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating and it is holding up well.

I would much prefer to spend the money on something else and so in some ways would love for all your negativity to be correct however what I have seen and heard so far tells me different.

The comments going around after Ians tragic accident aparently if I remember correct by a point 2 sales man were totally insensitive and totally incorrect I would not be with us with or without a point 2 as he suffered a horrific head injury, and I understand and agree with the anger here however it does not deflect from the fact the product is basically a very good one and seems to be very effective. No accident is however totally preventable and if that is what we are after we should not be eventing, it does however help lesson the risk.
 
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I just think that if you can afford them theyre worth having,.. everything is about as much protection as possible now. I suffer from a bad back (despite being only 18!) and today Daddy bought me a large (I'm a small 5ft4!!) air jacket.. but this way it will protect my lower back more. I'm hoping I dont need it, but I think theyre a great way of not being too restricted but being protected never the less..as Oli T's fall looked painfull on his neck, when he was under his horse, admittedly an Exo Bodycage may have prevented some injuries but its about personal preference. If you try on an Exo and find it a bit suffocating/restrictive.. I'd recommend an Air Jacket.. But its personal preference.. If you get an air jacket.. try Horses In Sport, cos theyll let you ride in it, and if you dont like it (even if you fall in the water!) theyll refund you.. thats what they said to me today..
 
Hold on a minute Lannerch I gave both scenarios as to if OTs jacket did or not inflate, both go totally against what Point 2 are claiming.

I have also never said that the idea is not a great one, I have just said there is no proof or rating that these jackets do not protect a rider anymore than a few bruises, and at worst (due to a fault design in them that needs to be addressed) that they are not a very good idea.

I really hope that Point 2 do the correct research and grading for this jacket as I think it could be a huge step forward for rider safety, it just needs fine tuning to make it such, where as at present it could cause far more serious injuries in a rider than some people are aware of (this comes from a medical background), and the more pressure put on the company to do these adjustments then we will have a very safe, protective and beneficial product than what they are selling at the moment, through high sales technique rather than any scientific or medical proof that it works.

Am I wrong in highlighting the down side to these jackets? I truly dont think so and anyone that buys thems should be alllowed to know both sides of the coin.
 
I'm sure point2 have done plenty of research to do with this to allow sales.. otherwise they would have been taken off the market already due to sheer amounts of complaints.

I was lucky enough to speak to Tina Cook today whilst she was getting the cylinder replaced in hers after Badminton.. and she thinks theyre great.

I agree, whether or not its mentally reassuring going XC in one knowing theres a bit more protection for my back I dont know.. but it gave me more confidence. Dont knock it until you try it. Either way, its personal preference.
 
Do you know I totally give up, the Point is Point 2 have done no research no that applies to riders, to motor bikes Yes not to horse riders and specifically eventers that wear the product. Have you asked what research or medical backing by consultants in specialist fields they have to found their claims upon and if so what has taken place, what proof they have of the claims they make? Point 2 have offered an open day when all questions will be answered but this has never happened, why?

To also sell you an oversized jacket, is astounding to say the least, no body protector company would do this, any protective piece of equipment is sold to fit.

A little pressure on the company to make a few small changes to the jacket would greatly enhance rider safety and then it would be the fantastic product they shout about, at present it is something and nothing, surely to strive for perfection and a real piece of kit that can truly save lives is not slating a product just asking for what it says it does on the can.

I also think if the product says what it does on the tin then whether it is £400 or £4000 it is a vital piece of equipment to any person in a high risk sport, money is not the object or discussion here.

Also very true, it is personal preference, and whilst eventing accident are horrendous, so are racings yet why are the medics and jockey club not shouting from the roof tops about this product is it is as the company say so great, instead it is not allowed, why not? Do you not ask yourself why?

All I have said and will say is, this product is not approved to prove any significant protection in any type of fall, there are issues with the design, there are issues with the claims the sales patter says, this could be a great product it just needs fine tuning to our sport, not sold off of the back of another sport. Negative maybe but a lot of positives there. Your body protector at present does far more good (and hence why approved) than the air jacket does, the more people that put pressure on Point 2 to improve the jacket the more chance there is that they will do.

Oh and as a PS there is a company that produces a very very very very similar product at just over £100 although their PR wheel is no where as good.
 
I'll try to be brief!

Firstly the "motorcyclist" misinformation. There are two major injury scenarios: the skidding which is taken care of by conventional leathers - the material any air jacket (other than those inserted in leathers) is made of would not stand up to prolong skidding on tarmac and the impact, whether of rider into solid object or more rarely (and most often found on the racetrack) of the bike having highsided and flipped onto the rider. The second scenario has the similarity to a rotational fall. The ultimate scenario is the fast slide into the Armco barrier followed by the bike impacting on top of the rider.

Secondly, sure the Point Two may be implicated in making an injury worse BUT it helps in far more cases. You presumably wouldn't dream of driving without your seatbelt as it is law that you do so but when I learnt to drive it wasn't compulsory. I wore mine during my test because my instructor said you got better marks for doing so. But people have been killed and suffered serious injury caused by seatbelts. My own daughter is permanently scarred by having been wearing seatbelt in a crash. In the same crash the impact with the airbag knocked her out and caused grazing to her head. There is sufficient evidence that whilst this can happen the benefit of wearing your seatbelt far outweighs the chance the it might do you a serious injury in the event of a crash - and of course it would be rare for a seatbelt to cause you more injury than crashing without it. In my daughter's case she is well aware that had she not had the airbag and seatbelt on she would not have survived. She would not consider getting in a car with no seatbelt. The guy who hit her and my husband head on had no airbag and the seatbelt looped over his shoulder so it looked like it was on. He died.

Same now with the Point Two, enough people have come off wearing them, and been videoed doing so, where the Point Two has certainly not increased the injury and can be seen to be helping that to keep repeating "It can cause a worse injury" is pointless. Try telling the officials that if you are nicked for not wearing a seatbelt, that argument was seen as a mere excuse years ago.


I too wish that Point Two would have their Open day and manage to get together sufficient test results to prove one way or the other the benefits of the product.
 
Totally agree with Jemima. This 'it can make an injury worse' argument is growing very thin now and the seatbelt analogy works well.

Oh and Point2 have never claimed this jacket would help prevent death in a rotational fall/crushing scenario. It's to help with injuries such as broken ribs, sternums and collar bones. Oliver Townend has sang it's praising and is insistent that the jacket significantly helped his injuries, so that he had cracked bones rather than shattered ones!
 
The fact Oli is heavily sponsored by Point two is maybe a reason he is singing its praises, his injuries occurred when the horse initially fell on him before the jacket inflated.In fact all the top riders were given their jackets.
I was present at a safety meeting last year where it was stated that BE had asked P2 to carry out various test on the jacket including in a medical enviroment to establish if they could worsen injuries already sustained before inflation.I have not heard that any of these have infact taken place ,you have to ask why.
The company are very good at marketing but not so good at giving the full story.The original market this product was aimed at in the equestrian world does not allow its use .
I am not saying dont wear one but please be aware of all the facts also not many people are aware there is another jacket out there that is cheaper (350 euros)namely the Hit Air which is just as good and made in Germany this product also offers a solid chest protector option for an extra 25 euros.
 
ahhh!!

How do you klno his injurys occured BEFORE the jacket inflated!!!

Please do look at the photo in eventing it indicates different. It pictures the horse on oli and the jacket to my untrained eyes certainly looks inflated.

Yes we would all love the company to give us conclusive evidence and yes they are extremely expensive but none of this deflects from the evidence out on the field so far which so far all looks very convincing. We may not like the company and they may well be getting away with ripping us off however the pfoduct they are selling certainly to me seems a great step forward ( at a price ).

I have looked at the hit air, you can indeed get one on ebay for just over £200 my problem with it however is it does not inflate quite as quick as the point 2 which as we have seen from some of the falls including olis, this could be very significant, if anyone knows of any more though I would love a link as I really would prefer not to spend 424 on a jacket.
 
The fence judges in Kentuky stated that the jacket did not inflate before the horse started to rise after impact(if you are close it is obvious when the jacket is activated).I have not seen a photo that has shown me an inflated airjacket before he hit the deck ,maybe I am wrong.
What ever you do dont buy A hit air off ebay as they are not legitimate stock and most likely copies so no back up or guarantee this comes from their website.All I can tell you is in the motor bike world the Hit air outsells the point two many times over and has actually been tested by the Japanese transport ministry. Below is a link to their website.
http://www.hit-air.com/horse/english/top/index.html
 
interestingly the hit air now do do one the s type that inflates in a time conparable to the point 2, will be looking more into it thanks popsdosh.

The photo in eventing is not before he hit the deck it is while the horse is rolling on him it certainly looks inflated however I can't be 100% sure so who knows :)
 
im so undecided by these jackets, in respect i think they are fab and deffo do a job> what that actual job is im not sure, when i was at badminton i was watching a talk on these p2's and i deffo heard the chap say they would take the weight of up to a ton in terms of crush and rotational falls,,,, but quite often in a rotational fall your not thrown clear from the horse hence the horse crushing you, so in those terms would you even set the thing off????? AND HOW MUCH R THEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats insane!!!!!!

ive heard of the ground stewards and med teams struggling with these expo's so what the answer is i really dont know!!!

All i know is we really need something that we can all afford, and truely, you cant put a price on serious injury or worse!!
 
I think its a catch 22 situation for the likes of me! I would love to buy and a point 2 jacket but cannot afford to. Someone said to me 'what cost can you put on your life' which i agree with, but as i said to her, if i buy one i wont have any money to event for the rest of the season so not much point in buying one to sit in a cupboard!
Watching Badminton with my parents i did try and point out the benefits of them to my father who is totally unhorsey but fairly well off, and he just nodded and said 'Oh i see!'
If i win the lottery it will be first on my shopping list but until then i will have to just keep reading the pros and cons of them :rolleyes:
 
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