Air Jackets - who has one, why do we use them, are they worth it?

I have one but I must admit it's only as my parents bought it for me. I like the idea of them and only compete at lower levels (BE 90 level unaffiliated although affiliating this year) I managed to set mine off when my horse took off then put back down and threw me over her shoulder. I didn't hit the floor but ended up like Humpty Dumpty sitting on a roll top :D. I can't really remember the noise of it going off just the shock of suddenly feeling 'squeezed'. My horse didn't seem that bothered (spooky TB) and casually trotted off back towards the lorry park.

This topic seems to be similar to hi-vis ! you either do or you don't.
 
Well we bought our air jacket a few years back and I now would NEVER go xc without one, I have seen friends fall going xc and a p2 would 100% have cushioned the impact and prevented them from coming away with multiple broken bones. All our family wear the p2 and it has been used in the array of disciplines we all compete in. I can highly recommend it enough.
 
kerilli said:
that's interesting, considering that the owner of the most prominent airjacket company assured me, in public (BE regional meeting a few years ago, lots of witnesses!) that the sound of a P2 going off would NEVER scare a horse.
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Much as I'd immediately doubt anyone who said NEVER in relation to horses :rolleyes:, I have been immediately alongside someone when their air jacket went off and was surprised at how quiet it was (hitair). Neither horse spooked in the slightest :)

xmonax said:
a p2 would 100% have cushioned the impact and prevented them from coming away with multiple broken bones.
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That's the thing, statements like this are purely anecdotal and based on personal opinion. You cannot possibly say this 100% as there is no proof! I am another who has asked for proper, scientific data before I would consider wearing one.
 
I have an air jacket (Hit Air in my case) and spent a long time considering the pros and cons. I accept that in the event of a rotational fall it won't help me.However as a rider that although falls off fairly infrequently when I do I have this talent for going splat and don't bounce what so ever then I do feel it will help me in this situation. Arguably when I badly broke my hip if I had as I thought of put my air jacket on it may have prevented the injury.

With regard to the noise it is one of the reasons I chose the Hit Air as it is meant to be more of a hiss than a sudden bang. I will be wearing mine for all xc and when riding unpredictable horses as it offers extra protection.
 
xmonax said:
I have seen friends fall going xc and a p2 would 100% have cushioned the impact and prevented them from coming away with multiple broken bones.
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ditto rhino's words. statements like this drive me NUTS. i've watched horrific rotationals with no bp or airjacket and the rider has been unhurt. you absolutely CANNOT state that the airjacket 100% protected them from injury unless you have done the testing and PROVEN what it can do!

btw, Plantation Field event in the U.S. last September:

"Lucia Strini, who was wearing an air vest, suffered a mild liver laceration and 10 non-displaced fractures, including her hip, pelvis, sacrum, three ribs and four vertebrae in her lower back."

Oh dear, where's the magic now...
she's very very lucky that they were 'non-displaced', of course... that's another HUGE concern with them.
 
charlotte_crabtree said:
That's interesting; how do you feel the motorcyle gilet would compare to an equestrian air-jacket?
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Well as I said I haven't had it inflate yet but I figure it's more comfortable for me hacking than my BP and should I fall my coccyx, neck and back should have some cushioning. I would not spend over £400 on safety gear for hacking.
 
I have watched this thread with interest. I have just bought one for my daughter today. We were unable to see it going off so am still unsure of how much noise there is but do think that in a fall situation the noise would not be as noticeable as an accidental set off. DD will still wear her racesafe bp underneath as per competition rules. My question on them is if you do fall off xc the time delay for them to deflate and allowing you to continue ? Any one know ? :confused:
 
morrismob said:
I have watched this thread with interest. I have just bought one for my daughter today. We were unable to see it going off so am still unsure of how much noise there is but do think that in a fall situation the noise would not be as noticeable as an accidental set off. DD will still wear her racesafe bp underneath as per competition rules. My question on them is if you do fall off xc the time delay for them to deflate and allowing you to continue ? Any one know ? :confused:
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Surely why would you carry on if you felt you needed one in the first place!!!!!!!
 
Morrismob (can't quote on phone) didn't the saddlery you got yours from set it off when your daughter tried it on ? Bit strange if they didn't. When I came off my horse, the P2 started going down quite soon as I could hear it deflating albeit very slowly. You couldn't continue as you're like a weeble (one of those toys shaped like an egg that won't fall over :)) I couldn't actually reach the clasps on my number bib and had to get the fence judge to do so. It also shoots the number bib right up under your chin.
 
popsdosh said:
Because in a true rotational fall the rider does not part company with the horse so the jacket is not triggered.
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Absolute complete utter and total rubbish, with photographic and video evidence available to show what rubbish it is too.

Most rotational falls occur where the rider hits the floor and then the horse rotates onto the top of them. In the majority of rotational falls, the jacket will have inflated.

Only in a sideways fall (which is not a rotational anyway and where the horse will tend to land on the rider's legs, not the torso) or a complete 180 degree head over heels fall where the rider has incredible stickability and is still in the saddle on the horse will the jacket fail to go off.
 
I do see your point as to why would she need one if she then carried on but unless horse or herself has been hurt she has always got back on and finished the round. I bought mainly for the spinal protection that they seem to offer I know its not proven but makes sense to me. But as you point out the next fall could be the next fence......;)
 
carefreegirl said:
Morrismob (can't quote on phone) didn't the saddlery you got yours from set it off when your daughter tried it on ? Bit strange if they didn't. When I came off my horse, the P2 started going down quite soon as I could hear it deflating albeit very slowly. You couldn't continue as you're like a weeble (one of those toys shaped like an egg that won't fall over :)) I couldn't actually reach the clasps on my number bib and had to get the fence judge to do so. It also shoots the number bib right up under your chin.
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No they couldn't as didn't have a demo one but have done some research and they take 90 secs to start deflating and upto 5 mins to completely deflate. Dont think she can go round looking like a weeble lol ( i am old enough to remember them ) I shall warn her although I do think the number bib shooting up her chin might be a bit disconcerting.:D
 
kerilli said:
btw, Plantation Field event in the U.S. last September:

"Lucia Strini, who was wearing an air vest, suffered a mild liver laceration and 10 non-displaced fractures, including her hip, pelvis, sacrum, three ribs and four vertebrae in her lower back."

Oh dear, where's the magic now...
she's very very lucky that they were 'non-displaced', of course... that's another HUGE concern with them.
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What's the relevance of this quote Kerilli?

No-one said that they would prevent all injury, and if this girl was that injured while wearing one then it is my personal belief, as a user, that she would probably have been dead without it or at the very least in a wheelchair.

I am fascinated that having an example of four fractured vertebrae that did NOT displace as the jacket went down, we still get the old chestnut spouted about how huge a concern it is that fractures will displace as they go down and that therefore they are dangerous. I'm glad that you have quoted this example, because it reassures me that my belief that concern about fracture displacement is total nonsense is correct.
 
Morrismob, they set off the one I bought, they are supplied as a saddler with test canisters so not really a Demo jacket. I would go back to them and ask for a proper demo. It's quite a shock when mine was set off in the shop but obviously you're in an enclosed space so seems very loud but nowhere near as loud out on the xc course. Id be concerned that I hadn't had the demo in the shop tbh if I was in your shoes.
 
cptrayes said:
What's the relevance of this quote Kerilli?

No-one said that they would prevent all injury, and if this girl was that injured while wearing one then it is my personal belief, as a user, that she would probably have been dead without it or at the very least in a wheelchair.

I am fascinated that having an example of four fractured vertebrae that did NOT displace as the jacket went down, we still get the old chestnut spouted about how huge a concern it is that fractures will displace as they go down and that therefore they are dangerous. I'm glad that you have quoted this example, because it reassures me that my belief that concern about fracture displacement is total nonsense is correct.
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the relevance was that it was in response to the comment
xmonax said:
I have seen friends fall going xc and a p2 would 100% have cushioned the impact and prevented them from coming away with multiple broken bones.
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this blind faith that it WILL protect against fractures. maybe it will, maybe it won't, but without proper testing who can say?

of course, there are non-displaced fractures and non-displaced fractures. we've all known of people who had a crunching fall, went to A&E, were x-rayed and told they were fine, went home, walked around (and rode, in many cases) for a few weeks, then went back because of the severe pain, x-rayed again and were suddenly strapped to a backboard and not allowed to move for weeks... ;) ;)
 
Thank you for that carefree I will call them in the morning and see what they say. I wanted it for Sunday so was keen to get it, I did get a free cannister perhaps I'll shove DD off tomorrow morning when she jumps him before school heehee
 
morrismob said:
Thank you for that carefree I will call them in the morning and see what they say. I wanted it for Sunday so was keen to get it, I did get a free cannister perhaps I'll shove DD off tomorrow morning when she jumps him before school heehee
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Out of interest, does she have the child's or adult's version? They inflate differently and the child's one is far less restrictive when inflated IME.
 
rhino said:
Out of interest, does she have the child's or adult's version? They inflate differently and the child's one is far less restrictive when inflated IME.
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She has the medium adult version as although she is only 14 she takes after me and is very tall, the small left no room for it to inflate ( at least thats what the woman said).
 
We've done this before here and here

There are some fairly strong feelings on here about them, have a read, think about the physics and the marketing.

The fall on this video at 2min 21 sec was cited as the air jacket being put to good use... if you watch it frame by frame (not easy on youtube, best done on a video editing program ;) )
you will see the rider hits the ground shoulder and head first and it looks like its only as the horse moves to try and get up the airjacket goes off
http://youtu.be/DwMLQfmC9FE
 
the Financier said:
We've done this before here and here

There are some fairly strong feelings on here about them, have a read, think about the physics and the marketing.

The fall on this video at 2min 21 sec was cited as the air jacket being put to good use... if you watch it frame by frame (not easy on youtube, best done on a video editing program ;) )
you will see the rider hits the ground shoulder and head first and it looks like its only as the horse moves to try and get up the airjacket goes off
http://youtu.be/DwMLQfmC9FE
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I don't agree with you. The action of the horse rotating over to fall onto the rider pulls the cord. By the time it has landed on him it is already up or well on its way.

But if I did agree with you that it did not deploy until the horse was rolling off him - SO WHAT? No-one is saying that these jackets can protect a rider in every fall. It would be an uncommon fall for the jacket not to go off, but if it doesn't, it doesn't. It makes no difference at all to whether they make riding and falling, in general, less dangerous, which in my opinion as a wearer, they do.

Around here, their use is spreading like wildfire because of the number of ordinary people falling off in air jackets who are reporting to their friends how easily they landed with it on. It's now a rare hunt that I go on where I am alone wearing one.
 
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morrismob said:
I have watched this thread with interest. I have just bought one for my daughter today. We were unable to see it going off so am still unsure of how much noise there is but do think that in a fall situation the noise would not be as noticeable as an accidental set off. DD will still wear her racesafe bp underneath as per competition rules. My question on them is if you do fall off xc the time delay for them to deflate and allowing you to continue ? Any one know ? :confused:
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Hi morrismob. I don't know what the deflation times are etc, but as she has to have a body protector on underneath in any case, she is allowed to remove the air jacket (leave it with the fence judge) and continue should she so wish, since the air jacket is of no further use in any case.
 
I can only give you my experiences about the air vest. I am currently nursing a fractured L3 vertebrae that was caused from a fall off the a young horse at an event. My horse tripped / napped / did something which spat me out the front door a couple of strides after a small cross country fence. I went head/ face first into the ground (and in Australia, that ground is HARD!) Luckily I was wearing my air vest which protected my neck and stableised it so it remained straight. It did the same along my back and according to the doctors the reason why I broke a vertebrae is either due to a compression fracture or my legs doing some acrobats and bening my back in a funny place.

The good news? The fracture didn't displace. The back that I hit the ground with enough force to crumble a bone in my back, what would that have done to my neck if it was unprotected.

In regards to a rotational fall, don't be so quick to dismiss the air vests. I always think that a photo says a 1000 words....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rider-terrifying-fall-international-show.html
 
Kokeloke said:
In regards to a rotational fall, don't be so quick to dismiss the air vests. I always think that a photo says a 1000 words....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rider-terrifying-fall-international-show.html
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Oh yeah, isn't that the one where the particular air jacket manufacturer claimed that the rider had been completely uninjured by the fall as a result of wearing the jacket - when in fact she had suffered reasonably serious injuries? :rolleyes: Landing directly head down is not something an air jacket is primarily designed to help with though...

Like Kerrilli says, there have been similar/identical falls not resulting in injury (not wearing air jackets) so sorry, but that is not proof!
 
Kokeloke said:
In regards to a rotational fall, don't be so quick to dismiss the air vests. I always think that a photo says a 1000 words....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rider-terrifying-fall-international-show.html
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Yes, that's Faith Cook's awful cruncher at Bramham, the one that Point Two used in their initial U.S. advertising campaign, with the claim that both horse and rider walked away uninjured.
Of course, a few fractured vertebrae counts as 'uninjured' then... :O :O :O

I don't see anything positive in this picture at all. I see lots of appalling things that make me really angry, and very relieved that they both survived.
 
Will an airjacket protect me in a rotational - probably not
Will an airjacket reduce injuries in ALL non-rotational falls - probably not
Could an airjacket increase the injuries I sustain in a fall - I doubt it but accept there is the rare and remote possibility of this
Will an airjacket protect me more in the majority of fall - I believe so, yes

I don't compete over fences to any real level, but have recently invested in an airjacket. There are a multitude of reasons:
I am self employed and if I don't work I don't earn
I am an amatuer with less than ideal stickability, I fall off where pro's might stay on!
I am a little unfodient over a fence, I feel slightly more confident wearing a jacket which in my case is a good thing, I ride and commit to a fence better
 
kerilli said:
Yes, that's Faith Cook's awful cruncher at Bramham, the one that Point Two used in their initial U.S. advertising campaign, with the claim that both horse and rider walked away uninjured.
Of course, a few fractured vertebrae counts as 'uninjured' then... :O :O :O
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I seem to recall that a certain maker of this wear did their own ambulance chasing that day trying to get the product endorsed by a girl laying on her back in A&E.Thats Subtle!
 
kerilli said:
Yes, that's Faith Cook's awful cruncher at Bramham, the one that Point Two used in their initial U.S. advertising campaign, with the claim that both horse and rider walked away uninjured.
Of course, a few fractured vertebrae counts as 'uninjured' then... :O :O :O
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Kerilli would that be more fractured vertebrae that didn't displace as the airbag went down then? Time for people to stop making that scaremongering claim maybe?

While Point 2 were clearly stupid if they claimed she was uninjured, it's a miracle that she walked away from that fall at all, ever, and I for one believe that the airbag around her neck may well be the reason that she is not in a wheelchair or dead.
 
CPTrayes it is best not to talk about things you don't know about. I am quite happy to PM you about the fall you and Kerilli are discussing. You are right, Faith is very lucky, but NOT for the reasons you state.
 
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