AITAH?

[Pinkvboots]

Hungry horses hanging around gates in winter is always a tricky situation. I hate it and I have mine at home! Maybe she will settle if this is a relatively new situation but you don’t want to put yourself in a dangerous situation for x number of weeks to see if she will or won’t settle.
I was on a livery once where the policy in winter was, if you were the second to last to bring your horse in then you had to bring the last horse in too so it wasn’t left on its own. This was regularly abused by one person who knew they didn’t need to bother getting their horse in as if they left it late enough someone else would.
Perhaps at your yard, it should be that the first to bring in, has to bring the bay mare in too?

Exactly this and its the one thing that drove me crazy on livery yards you always get at least one person that will abuse the rules.

One thing that solved it at one yard was if it happened more than once a week the yard charged you for a bring in, because the last livery bringing in can't bring 2 in together so a member of staff did it.

When I ran yards in winter they all had to be in before I left and if an owner wasn't around to bring in I did it and charged them.

 

[Kaylum]

If you can’t put a corral up then an option might be catch her bring her and yours through the gate and then put her back in the field.

Also if she is adamant that hers can’t be brought in earlier then ask for a copy of her public liability insurance, making it very clear to her that she will be personally liable for any injuries to any liveries or their horses. It is a known behaviour and needs to be mitigated

We have a corral area as one of our fields we have to cross a road. It works very well in case one pushes through.

 

[Pinkvboots]

It sounds like baymare needs to learn some manners and to wait her turn. That takes sensible, proactive handling and to have everyone onboard. It will take longer than just bringing her in but will solve the problem without creating a new problem of always having to bring her in first.

This needs to come from a discussion between YO and owner then the plan shared with everyone else. It's an age old problem and can be solved with all but the most aggressive horses.

Manners go out the window with alot of horses when they are hungry and want in, I've been on yards where horses are chucked out at 5 am only having a handful of chaff not a scrap of hay left from the night before, and they are stood out in a bare field until the evening they must be starving I can understand them to be honest.

 

[Cowpony]

We actually still have quite a lot of grass, so it's not hunger.

This evening one of the liveries asked if owner would like the pony brought in, as she was going up to get hers. Owner demanded that if pony was distressed they be contacted personally, but agreed she could be brought in if distressed. It probably helped that it was raining at the time .

Another livery and her daughter were there too, so pony was whisked in with the other two, done and dusted! I'm afraid i did have a naughty snigger. Second livery has had to deal with baymare a lot to get hers out, and was probably relieved to have the excuse to get her sorted!

 

[little_critter]

Hmm, the field mine are in has good grass in it still, but they are still acting like they are starving when they come in.
Maybe the goodness has gone out of it.

 

[scats]

This is definitely a YM/YO situation. I would expect to sort this out if it were happening on our yard. The safety of horses and people is paramount.

 

[nikkimariet]

Should have been left to YO or YM to deal with.

I completely understand and sympathise with what you’re saying, but sometimes you have to say your bit to ‘the person with the power’ and bite your tongue.

Having been a YO and also a livery I get both sides of the coin, and have newfound respect for YO as most adults are just children with a more extensive vocabulary (not you OP, I’ve just seen some absolutely amazing things in the past few years!).

 

[Exasperated]

Update - I had a word with the YM, from a safety perspective, not a complaint or asking her to intervene. She said that she'd seen the aggressive behaviour last week, and daren't think what might have happened if it wasn't her and another experienced staff member there. Begs the question why she didn't do something last week, but hey ho. She's going to speak to the livery and agree what to do.

Oh dear, poor YM: some straight talking and an infrastructural change rather obviously required to mitigate risk! Really, the yard owners have been incredibly lucky never to have had this issue before (or at least for twelve years) because horses are inherently unpredictable, whether individually or in herds - it’s not unknown or even unlikely behaviour.
Yes, the terrorist mare may settle down, or she may not, or another one might start acting the goat.... basically, for the minimum safety of horses, employees and clients - there should be another exit gate and / or a holding pen in this field.
Risk assessment for the yard’s business insurance evidently hasn’t identified this, but if there’s an injury claim (or worse, and Inquiry), particularly now the hazard has been so clearly spelled out and logged.... it really will be oh dear, in all senses.
Meanwhile, YO must also clarify the circumstances and charging policy for mandatory ‘assistance’ (intervention).
Someone is going to have to have a difficult conversation, and spend some money. Sounds like they realise, too.
Just keep safe while it gets worked out!

 

[Cowpony]

Should have been left to YO or YM to deal with.

See, the problem is that if we go running to the YM without raising it with the relevant livery first, we get complaints that we should have spoken to them, they would have sorted it, we didn't need to blow it up out of all proportion by going to the YM etc etc.

We're damned if we do and damned if we dont.

And TBH the response I expected was "Oh no! Really sorry, I'll get the yard to bring her in earlier from now on." Which is the response I would have got from most liveries there.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I don't envy you this Cowpony. I'm not at a livery yard and so bring mine in together, that used to include bringing 4 in together when they were all in the same field as even though my horses and ponies are lovely they don't like being "left" and I think that's understandable. Routine is come in and when bringing in starts every horse wants to be involved.
My first thought was at the last yard i was on the rule was never leave a horse, so if mine was second from last to come in I'd bring the other with me, we did nothing more than pop them in the stable for the owners to sort out when they arrived so it was easy enough. Its hard if the owners are refusing this though.

 

[Cowpony]

We have the same rule, and that works fine for the person getting the last 2 in. The problem we have is that baymare wants to come in when she sees the others start to be brought in, and causes trouble at the gate, but her owner doesn't want her brought in at that time. So she's out throughout our bringing in time, making things difficult. If her owner would allow us to bring her in when we start bringing in it would all work well.

 

[Fred66]

We have the same rule, and that works fine for the person getting the last 2 in. The problem we have is that baymare wants to come in when she sees the others start to be brought in, and causes trouble at the gate, but her owner doesn't want her brought in at that time. So she's out throughout our bringing in time, making things difficult. If her owner would allow us to bring her in when we start bringing in it would all work well.

Would she know ? All else fails just bring it in, unless there is CCTV then just deny, deny, deny

EDIT: If you all do it then ultimately what can she do ?

 

[Cowpony]

They will know when they come up to the yard to get her in and find her already in the stable, but I guess they won't know exactly when she came in!

 

[poiuytrewq]

TBH that's what I'd be doing. I'd just not want to risk my horse getting injured and If they refuse to assist then I'd be just bringing her in before mine- be that first or last.

 

[nikkimariet]

See, the problem is that if we go running to the YM without raising it with the relevant livery first, we get complaints that we should have spoken to them, they would have sorted it, we didn't need to blow it up out of all proportion by going to the YM etc etc.

We're damned if we do and damned if we dont.

And TBH the response I expected was "Oh no! Really sorry, I'll get the yard to bring her in earlier from now on." Which is the response I would have got from most liveries there.

Imho it’s inappropriate to expect a livery to take on the responsibility of the YM, that’s quite literally their role. Very unfair on you. This is different from something trivial like sweeping up.

In any case - the situation had been raised and nothing has happened until and incident nearly has. Excellent ammunition to go straight to YM as best practice in the future.

 

[Fieldlife]

Imho it’s inappropriate to expect a livery to take on the responsibility of the YM, that’s quite literally their role. Very unfair on you. This is different from something trivial like sweeping up.

In any case - the situation had been raised and nothing has happened until and incident nearly has. Excellent ammunition to go straight to YM as best practice in the future.

I think it is fairly elastic, and depends how hands on the yard owner is and what the expectations are on a particular yard.

I am on a yard that is largely self managed between liveries, and yard manager is contact of last resort. I have been on yards, were every decision or discussion went through yard manager. There isnt a hard and fast rule, other than finding out what your yard manager expects, and following that.