Akhal Teke stallion-Kambarbay

PapaFrita said:
Good conformation is an essential prerequisite of a potential sire. Breeders know this so if they're not showing it, makes me think they have something to hide. They have LOADS of photos on the site, PLUS a video and not ONE decent confo shot? Very suspicious.
It's not that I hate him, I just don't think he's exceptional and there are lots of stallions available that are.
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Just call me a sheep ^^^^ what PF said :D
 
Yes, obviously, you need to go and see him to be able to make an informed judgement. However, your first port of call is normally the website and personally, having seen the images it would put me off travelling to see him. Its only my opinion and thats how I feel particularly as he hasn't yet had a career or produced any offspring to prove him with. I'm sure he'll have a great career and be successful but for now, not for me.
 
joeathh said:
I'm with amy_b on this one.

How can you say his conformation is crap and then complain there is no decent confo picture for you to study said conformation???

Which is it - who has seen him in the flesh to give a more accurate conformation description? It might be crap, it might be perfectly fine......
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What can be seen doesn't look good and a decent conformation shot should show the overall picture. You can see a poor shoulder and individual limbs on the photos provided as well as an apparently weak rear end.
I haven't seen him but have seen other A-Ts and as a type they are shallow & racey, often with long pasterns & cannon bones. Some are rather nice though.
 
mrs george i was refering to magic 104's comment, ' WOW 4 generations back' when i talked about 'following the crowd' and ' taking the pxss', and not the other people's comments.

what i don't really know is how set the genetics are in this breed, but we do know that ish's have a bit of allsorts and the warmbloods are a bit of everything, so you could get anything from them, but could the AT be more set, and dominant, they certainly are very distinctive, and although not many of us have seen one in the flesh most people would recognse one if shown a photo, which i find interesting.
 
JanetGeorge said:
Aaagghh! I would not put THAT on any mare - let alone an ID mare! He's a pretty colour - but I can't find much more that's good to say about him (well, maybe he's got a better shoulder than most A-T's! The Akhal-Teke is not a consistent breed - the 'types' are incredibly variable - you could get almost ANYTHING.

A good TB on an ID mare WILL get a nice foal if the mare is half-way decent.
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I don't know anything about this horse but because of my interest in Rare Breeds and the fact that CBHS have a selected mating scheme, I did so some research on in-breeding.

I learned that the Akhal-Teke can carry and pass on genetic defects which trace back to a small number of well used stallions. I will have to hunt out the article but would recommend doing a bit of homework. I am not making a comment about THIS stallion.
 
tristar said:
mrs george i was refering to magic 104's comment, ' WOW 4 generations back' when i talked about 'following the crowd' and ' taking the pxss', and not the other people's comments.

what i don't really know is how set the genetics are in this breed, but we do know that ish's have a bit of allsorts and the warmbloods are a bit of everything, so you could get anything from them, but could the AT be more set, and dominant, they certainly are very distinctive, and although not many of us have seen one in the flesh most people would recognse one if shown a photo, which i find interesting.
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First off where was I taking the "pxss"? You do need to look back into the pedigree especially when you are using the stallion on a mare of mixed breeding. The Akhal Teke is not a breed I like, because their basic make up is not my cup of tea. Some of them are nicer then others, as is the case with many breeds. They are also known to be more of a pro's horse "They tend to be intelligent, sensible and sensitive they often bond with their human partner to an amazing degree", intelligent & sensitive are not a good combination for those less experienced with horses. This is what is said about them;

Head is light and dry, with a wide, lean jowl. It should have either a straight profile or a slight Roman nose, favoured by some breeders. The lips and nostrils are finely shaped and the muzzle should, metaphorically speaking, be able to fit into a small tea-cup.

Eyes are large and have a characteristic elongated almond shape, sometimes likened to the
eyes of a predatory bird. The upper eye lid often overhangs the eye – this feature is highly
prized by breeders and referred to as “hooded eye”.

Ears are long, fine, highly mobile, often having the shape of a scythe or a lyre. They should
not be “lopey” but should point upwards. Some Akhal-Teke have the points of ears
positioned close together when the horse is alert, almost like those of a Marwari horse.

Neck is long, with a characteristic “S”-bend, sometimes likened to the shape of a cobra
suspended before the moment of attack, or to the shape of a curved spout on a traditional
bronze Turkmen vessel. The neck is set high to the withers while the head is set to the neck at an extreme acute angle, so that if a horizontal line were to be drawn at the level of the lower lip it will be positioned well above the withers of the horse. A special importance is ascribed to the so-called “zatylok” – the stretch of the neck between the head and the poll: it is expected to be long, wide and well-defined.

Withers should be high, long and very-well defined.

Shoulder should be sloping and well-muscled, with a particularly wide, active “swing” which
must be taken into account when fitting a saddle.

Chest is deep. It can be less wide than that of a warmblood but must not be too narrow and should be well-muscled.

Back is often longer than that of other breeds and can appear to be “soft”. This is not a
defect provided the loin is strong at the point of attachment to the croup and well-muscled.
“Loose coupling” at the loin should be avoided. - This bit will be very important especially when determining the mare used, especially if you dont know her breeding.

Croup is well-muscled and often can have a sloping shape with a low-set tail (opposite to
that of an Arab).

Legs must be “dry”, meaning that the ligaments, joints and bones are clearly-defined and can be easily seen with a naked eye. The forearm should be long and well-muscled, with short cannon bones. The hind legs are sometimes cow-hocked or sable-shaped – neither of these are seen as defects. - But they are outside the breed & are looked down on in the sportshorse

Feet are generally strong, with hard horn and correct angle but they can sometimes have thin soles. - Again something that needs to be taken into account for sporthorse breeding

The overall shape of the body is tubular in cross section, with a shallow girth and tucked-up
belly, resulting in an overall impression of a tall, light horse on long legs. An Akhal-Teke
should never be “stalky”, with a large, heavy barrel on short legs. The proportion of the body mass to the height of the horse is one of the features that gives the Akhal-Teke its marvellous recovery, as the horse carries relatively little weight in relation to its height.

This is also the reason why, coupled with extreme muscling, the tall, narrow Akhal-Teke
invites the comparison with the fastest animal in the world, the cheetah, while the flexibility and smooth, elastic movements are likened to that of a snake. The combination of athleticism and stamina in the Akhal-Teke are unparalleled amongst the horse breeds in the world today.

Each to their own, but in the case of this mare, I would not be so keen. Not anywhere have I taken the "pxss" out of him. This breed is marmite thats for sure.
 
I have used Kambarbay on my ex racing/ dressage TB mare, hoping to produce an eventer type. Out colt is fantastic! He is very well put together, good depth of girth, strong quarters, etc. Athletic and elegant movement. Stunning looks! What more can I say, afterall one of the 1st TB's The Byerley Turk was an Akhal Teke. Kambarbay would be a great cross on an ID.
JanetGeorge said:
Aaagghh! I would not put THAT on any mare - let alone an ID mare! He's a pretty colour - but I can't find much more that's good to say about him (well, maybe he's got a better shoulder than most A-T's! The Akhal-Teke is not a consistent breed - the 'types' are incredibly variable - you could get almost ANYTHING.

A good TB on an ID mare WILL get a nice foal if the mare is half-way decent.
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I'm guessing most posters wouldn't agree with him as my fantasy cross with my friesian mare then? :) Nice buckskin or palamino Friesian/AT cross anyone?


Should probably make it clear that I have no intention of breeding from her.

Paula
 
Paulag said:
I'm guessing most posters wouldn't agree with him as my fantasy cross with my friesian mare then? :) Nice buckskin or palamino Friesian/AT cross anyone?


Should probably make it clear that I have no intention of breeding from her.

Paula
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Kambarbay has a good future ahead of him as a Sport Horse Stallion.
 
Lish said:
Kambarbay has a good future ahead of him as a Sport Horse Stallion.
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I wasn't joking, I think they'd make an excellent cross. Adding the bone density, endurance and temperament of an AT to the temperament, bone and movement of a friesian. And a good dollop of hybrid vigour (although i believe ther is a little AT in the Friesian's background). Of course it could all go horribly wrong. . . .

Paula
 
I rather like him - in fact I'd go as far as to say I think he's exquisite.

There are quite a few decent conformation shots of him on the site - and apart from not having the best forelegs (what AKT's do?) - he is what he is an Akhal Teke.

Worth a look in the flesh - but I do agree that he wouldn't be my first choice to put to an ID.
 
Paulag said:
I'm guessing most posters wouldn't agree with him as my fantasy cross with my friesian mare then? :) Nice buckskin or palamino Friesian/AT cross anyone?


Should probably make it clear that I have no intention of breeding from her.

Paula
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:) had to smile at this. These are my two favourite horse breeds and I was jokingly discussing this cross a few days ago :D
 
amymay said:
I rather like him - in fact I'd go as far as to say I think he's exquisite.

There are quite a few decent conformation shots of him on the site - and apart from not having the best forelegs (what AKT's do?) - he is what he is an Akhal Teke.Worth a look in the flesh - but I do agree that he wouldn't be my first choice to put to an ID.
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This.

People that should know better are critique his conformation when he is what I would call a very good example (NOT an AK expert I may add!)
which begs the question, does the fact that he had GOOD conformation for an AT make him a bad AT?!! :rolleyes::p - would be interesting to hear from an AT expert on this.

At the end of the day as AmyMay said, he is an AT!! I think Shetlands are crap because thier legs are too short.... :p

However, think there are better crosses for an ID and agree with JG that you cant go wrong with a nice TB
 
savia said:
Hi guys:D

Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the stallion in the title, good or bad. A friend of mine is interested in using him and I said I'd ask around for opinions:)
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If she is a good stamp of an Irish Draught mare then yes, absolutely, Kambarbay would be a very good choice to produce a good all round sport horse and eventer.

The difference between Kambarbay and the traditional choice of a TB is that he is built uphill and does not travel on the forehand. He has greater articulation through his joints with more bend through the hock and knee which provides good self carriage and more uphill tendancy in his movement, not to the extent of today's warmblood dressage horses but it's a nice balance between the two, providing mare owners with an alternative to the refining blood breeds such as the arab and TB.

With dressage and jumping playing a more significant role in the overall success of three day eventer this is one way of adding stamia speed and refinement whilst improving/maintaining the movement of the mare, without the detrimental aspect of producing a horse that simply spends to much time in the air in the canter that a warmblood stallion might produce or a horse that travels too much on the forehand if selecting a TB.

Kambarbay is indeed very light of bone and body mass but studies have shown that the bone of the Akhal Teke has greater density than other breeds. He is not a weak horse, his muscle development is that of a long distance runner, lean and strong. Different muscles develop for different purposes the 100 meter sprinter is not built the same as the long distance runner. Natural environmental selection has preserved the characteristics of the breed over thousands of years. Tough hardy animals designed to gallop at high speed over rocky terrain over long periods of time. They are the second fastest breed of horse in the world, primarily a racing breed and an endurance horse in their homeland of Turkmenistan.

Intellegence is another attribute of the breed, they learn very quickly and in Kambarbay's case he is an extremely responsive horse and very obedient, more so than any other I have ever owned. It has been said that they bond more closely with one person but have found that they are more trusting with any one who treats them with respect and kindness not just one person.

His first foals have now arrived but have only met two in person. We chose Kambarbay for one of our homebred mares Contender/Grand Veneur lines a showjumping bred mare, the mare has great reach and ground cover in her paces but she is built down hill, the aim was to lighten the forehand and add better mechanics in the movement to improve self carriage. He did his job, the filly has stamina, never seems to tire, can gallop flat out but can just as easily collect, saw little of her trot but certainly had good bend through her joints and very light footed. Mare owners that have bred Kambarbay foals have have all emphasised the same characteristics.

My belief shared with mare owners that have selected Kambarbay is that anyone looking for the refining qualities and positive attributes of a thoroughbred should consider the Akhal Teke afterall they are the oldest Thoroughbred known today and one of the founders of the TB breed.
 
amymay said:
I rather like him - in fact I'd go as far as to say I think he's exquisite.

There are quite a few decent conformation shots of him on the site - and apart from not having the best forelegs (what AKT's do?) - he is what he is an Akhal Teke.

Worth a look in the flesh - but I do agree that he wouldn't be my first choice to put to an ID.
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Thanks amymay :) I think so too but his temperment is so gentle as everyone that has met him with confirm.

However Kambaraby does have very correct forelimbs probably just don't have a good enough photo of him, but certainly isn't tied in, back or over at the knee. Perhaps a little toed out but depends how he is standing. The one paralell photo I have of him the off fore is infront of the near which distorts the line in the smaller image of him on the website but if you look at the large photo on facebook you can see that the forelimbs are correct from the front and side :)

You can also see a good conformation shot of him on the latest video of him on you tube the first opening scene after the head shot (I think). He is very straight in movement which is alway a good indication of how straight or correct a forelimb actually is. Deviations tend to cause a limb to dish or wing :)
 
amymay said:
Very interesting Opie.

Is he as nice a 'person' as he looks to be in the photos'??
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Yes he is and always encourage people to go meet him in person, Lish flew over from the Isle Of Mann to meet him and watch him in training. It's probably better coming from her. :)
 
Opie said:
Yes he is and always encourage people to go meet him in person, Lish flew over from the Isle Of Mann to meet him and watch him in training. It's probably better coming from her. :)
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Opie. How easy would it be to find an AK in the UK. ( sounds like a title of a song:)) I've been looking at the breed for quite some time and there don't appear to be many about.
 
TrasaM said:
:) had to smile at this. These are my two favourite horse breeds and I was jokingly discussing this cross a few days ago :D
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I believe someone in th states does Friesian/AT crosses, but I've never been able to finds a photo. It would either be very right, or very wrong. :)

I used to get a pony magazine back in the 80s and they had an article about ATs and I've been a fan ever since.

Paula
 
I absolutely would use him.

I have a Knabstrupper filly that is minimally marked and I am already thinking of putting her in foal at 3 years old to him.

I think he is a lovely stamp to get the finer eventing type and the colour is a bonus.

The Akhal Teke I think is a fairly unknown breed in comparison to say the Dutch warmblood but lets think about some of the "fugly" ones of those. There is good and bad in all breeds and its picking the best for your requirements.
 
Jill Thomas at Fawkes Stud has one (AK). He's just been gelded but they have plenty of frozen semen.

Personally on ID I'd use TB everytime... Delta Dancer is nice, well proven, and offspring have success in many spheres.
 
In defence of Akhal Tekes, they are a fairly strange looking horse. They're a horse that takes time to understand and appreciate for what they are. I have come to embrace them over time but no they are not for everyone.

Kambarbay does have that odd off-fore, no denying it, but apart from that he's not too badly put together for an Akhal Teke and at least he gets out there and does something, which is more than can be said for some other stallions. I would not cross an Akhal Teke with an ID, in my opinion that would be sacrilege!
 
s4sugar said:
How about he'd make a nice gelding?

I can't see what he could offer especially when you look at the photos of his ancestors on his stud card.
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I have used him on my well bred TB racing/dressage mare, and we have a fantastic foal. Kambarbay has a lot to offer!!!! He would certainly put more, blood, stamina, and elegance into an ID type!!
 
Sportznight said:
Just call me a sheep ^^^^ what PF said :D
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A dressage judge friend and I went to look at Kambarbay when he was with Matt Burnett, (my mare was already in foal to him) we were very impressed with his movement and temperament, yes he differren!!, and I am very proud of the foal we have by him, he has everything we wanted as a potential eventer! I would not hesitate to put Kambarbay to a heavy ID, or a welsh pony, hes fab.
 
I too have a colt foal by Kambarbay, he is so fab. Lovely and light, supple, extremely well balanced and very elegant. He is out of a TB X WB mare and i am very pleased with the cross. My colt was sold within a couple of weeks of being born and his new owners are very pleased with the way he is developing and plan to event him in the future.

I have met Kambarbay in the flesh twice and both times he was a true gentleman, very laid back and affectionate and so easy to handle and deal with. His paces were great, very uphill and active and i would not hesitate using him again in the future.
 
i just met kambaray a few days ago, went to the stud for something else and had the chance to meet him. i have to say as i told his owners he did not 'float my boat' in any way UNTIL i met him! all i can say is that if you are considering him then def go and see him in the flesh. he is a lovely chap and front legs are very straight (i looked as had seen previous comments). nothing ventured nothing gained, just wish i had a mare to put in foal to x
 
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