alfafa a or lucerne or something entirely different?

grandmaweloveyou

grandmaweloveyou

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Hi

Cob worked 6-7 days a week including lower distances of endurance, was at a weight that I and vet happy with (but show judges werent cos they like the, fat!) but currently a little 'portly' so

What to feed to give a bit of energy / stamina but no weight gain

Vet mentiond alfafa a or lucerne?

Out 24/7 and muzzled again recently as he has about 20kg to lose

Suggestions please or should I just not feed at all?

Thanks
 
Alfalfa and lucerne are the same thing, and in my opinion not appropriate for your situation.

Alfalfa is low on energy (around 9,6 MJ/kg) and high on protein (around 16%) so great for weight gain but not energy.

Why not try a small amount of naked oats? They're rocket fuel for most horses so would have a huge effect, even in smaller doses.

Oh, and you didn't mention it but I suppose you have him on a balancer too?
 
Currently on hi fi lite and oats and all in one supp and garlic.....

Yes he said alfafa a / lucerne are the same so I was weighing up pros and cons of both.

Hmmmm need a re-think. Oils?
 
no.oil is slow release energy so better for sharp skinnies.

you want cereals for buzz without weight gain, small amounts of any of the competition mixes will work better than oils or fibre.
 
It all depends of the starch level. Starch is what gives you that explosive energy you need. Anything else will only give you weight gain.
 
Hmmm am now googling 'competition mixes' so much choice and not convinced he is doing THAT much work.

Will call some of the suppliers for their 'non bias' advice

Thanku and any other info gratefully received
 
How much oats are you feeding? too little won't do anything, and if you're using regular oats - a scoop doesn't weigh that much.
 
Ok maybe more oats...mind u he sure as hell doesnt need perking up when doing an endurance comp! I cant expect him to work every day just on grass so need to get the balance right....
 
If his weight is good (or in this case, more than good!) than yeah, all you really need is grass, a general supplement and something to give him energy when you're asking more from him.

Weigh your oats to check if its enough. If he still lacks energy, its probably a matter of stamina and that only comes with work - six months ago I couldn't work my horse for more than half an hour without her getting exhausted; now we're doing close to two hours work (with walk brakes, obviously) and she manages just fine. You can't expect someone who never does any sports to go on a 40km hike and horses are the same.

Also, beware of garlic - too much can cause anemia.
 
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Thanks scmsl. His stamina isnt an issue, I shouldnt have put that, we range from 2 - 4 hour hacks & thats usually all trot work and of course a few naughty canters/gallops, just his attention in lessons needs sustaining! Will have a think...,,I think more oats for now.
 
grandmaweloveyou said:
Ok maybe more oats...mind u he sure as hell doesnt need perking up when doing an endurance comp! I cant expect him to work every day just on grass so need to get the balance right....
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If the vet says he is overweight (that's what I think you said in your OP, either way you said he needs to lose a bit) then why does he need hard feed? Why can't he work on just grass? I know plenty of people who event at a decent level and only give grass in the summer.
 
grandmaweloveyou said:
Thanks scmsl. His stamina isnt an issue, I shouldnt have put that, we range from 2 - 4 hour hacks & thats usually all trot work and of course a few naughty canters/gallops, just his attention in lessons needs sustaining! Will have a think...,,I think more oats for now.
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Attention in lessons isn't a feed thing though. It's more to do with manners and submission. How does his attention need to be sustained? Is he backing off your leg? Ignoring you? Not bending etc?

Mine can be a little inattentive which mainly manifests as spooking (ie, look at that scary thing over there, which conveniently avoids work for a moment) or just ignoring the rider. The second is just plain rude and it's a submission issue, in his case.
 
chestnut cob said:
If the vet says he is overweight (that's what I think you said in your OP, either way you said he needs to lose a bit) then why does he need hard feed? Why can't he work on just grass? I know plenty of people who event at a decent level and only give grass in the summer.
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horses for courses though, i know plenty of horses working at medium and above dressage on just chaff, but my own PSG horse needs feeding like a racehorse. They are all different and there is NO WAY i could run my horse just off grass, he's be flat as a pancake!

OP the spillers HDF power mix would be a good one to start with, cereal based but not ridiculous starch levels (high, but not stupid).
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
horses for courses though, i know plenty of horses working at medium and above dressage on just chaff, but my own PSG horse needs feeding like a racehorse. They are all different and there is NO WAY i could run my horse just off grass, he's be flat as a pancake!

OP the spillers HDF power mix would be a good one to start with, cereal based but not ridiculous starch levels (high, but not stupid).
Click to expand...

Oh I agree 100% and did go back last night to edit my post and say that but it was too late. What I'm getting at is that if the vet has told OP the horse is already "portly" (which was the gist I got from the OP) then I can't see why he needs hard feed unless he is then going to be worked to ensure he doesn't just put on more weight. I've had plenty of good doers and IME (which of course is only related to my own horses and could v different to everyone else's) if you can get the excess weight off them then they tend to have more energy. Personally I would approach it by getting the weight off first and if more energy is still required then add a competition mix for the oomph. My comments about the schooling were getting at essentially "is the horse really lacking in energy or is he being rude in the school and not going off the leg in the first place". So, mine would explode if I gave him comp mix (or in fact anything other than a good doer chaff), even if he's already lean (hunting season), because he is already sharp and spooky. However, he can be rude about ignoring the leg if something is hard work or he simply doesn't fancy it. That can feel like he needs more energy but he doesn't (he can hunt all day long and is ODE-ing this weekend), it's a schooling issue that I'm working on.

So that's what I was trying to get at, although it probably doesn't make any more sense now than it did before!
 
After much discussion late last night....I need to get a life, I am going to up the oats only and before a hard comp ie endurance.

Schooling...yes it's a manners. Some days fab some days lazy so definitely horses for courses.
 
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