All in one weedkiller & fertilizer?

[MagicMelon]

I need to do fertilize my field (only small so will be by hand) but also have seen theres some lawn type ones which had fertilizer AND weedkiller in too. I have docks so wondering if theres a big bag version (I need to do 1 acre by hand) that works? Or is it better to buy a bag of paddock fertilizer and just use spray Graze on on the weeds?

 

[Britestar]

The weed, feed and moss killer is for lawns.
You can't use grazon for horse fields anymore. The rules changed last year.
For docks use doxstar, then paddock fertilizer.

 

[rextherobber]

I'd dig the docks out, (instant gratification). Fertiliser is so expensive now, I'm spreading the well rotted muck heap back on the fields, it's fantastic stuff and saves having it taken away. Win- win!

 

[Errin Paddywack]

The weed, feed and moss killer is for lawns.
You can't use grazon for horse fields anymore. The rules changed last year.
For docks use doxstar, then paddock fertilizer.

Is Grazon completely banned for horse fields? We have been using it for years with no problems, just spot spraying.

 

[Fieldlife]

Is Grazon completely banned for horse fields? We have been using it for years with no problems, just spot spraying.

Grazon Pro? It is still being sold for horse fields? Look on Progreen website?

 

[Fieldlife]

I need to do fertilize my field (only small so will be by hand) but also have seen theres some lawn type ones which had fertilizer AND weedkiller in too. I have docks so wondering if theres a big bag version (I need to do 1 acre by hand) that works? Or is it better to buy a bag of paddock fertilizer and just use spray Graze on on the weeds?

The combined stuff is for lawns and pretty poor at both.

 

[Britestar]

Its to do with it remaining in the manure, so if you poo pick and then distribute to gardeners, it can kill their plants.

 

[lizziebell]

Is Grazon completely banned for horse fields? We have been using it for years with no problems, just spot spraying.

Not heard this either and my supplier still has it listed as suitable for horse paddocks. They are a professional supplier so I’d hope they’d be up on latest regulations !

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Its to do with it remaining in the manure, so if you poo pick and then distribute to gardeners, it can kill their plants.

Surely that would apply to more or less any weed killer used on horse paddocks, very odd.

 

[Fieldlife]

Surely that would apply to more or less any weed killer used on horse paddocks, very odd.

So are present for much longer, others break down much faster!

 

[PurBee]

Surely that would apply to more or less any weed killer used on horse paddocks, very odd.

The relatively modern herbicides are chemicals used that are considered ‘persistent’ herbicides. Aminopyralid and clopyralid being the most commonly used globally now.
The half life of these chemicals is so long that they persist in manure piles for years. Ive got such samples, now 10 years old and the herbicides in the manure will kill any plant, as the manure has it concentrated when fully rotted down.
If the manure is used for horticulture, the dosage to kill flower/veg/fruit crops of the above chemicals at a mere 5-10 PPB (parts per billion).
The only thing these chemicals dont kill is grass -so its safe to spread on grassland.

But here’s the thing - my 10yr old manure spread on my land, means the grass will uptake the old ancient herbicide, and grow grass, because this herbicide is designed to kill everything but not grass. So my horses graze the paddock, eat the grass containing the old herbicide, poop it out the other side, and my current manure pile now has the 10yr old herbicide transferred into it once again….there’s no getting rid of it! It just travels from one place to another via grazing animals. No wonder they call them persistent herbicides.

So to prevent this massive silent epidemic of horticulture farms getting their soils contaminated with these herbicides by using animal manures laced with them, and enduring loss of income of thousands per year in lost deformed crops - the regulations changed so that small-time animal keepers and residential gardeners could not use such chemicals and only large licenced farms can use them only.

I check with major commercial suppliers i use which herbicides they use and they have mostly switched from aminopyralid to clopyralid now.
Its marketed as being ‘gentler’ on soils and plants.
So instead of 2-5ppb kill rate of all plants, which is aminopyralid dose, clopyralid requires a 5-10ppb dose to kill horticulture soils.

The average dose in a handful of rotted manure is 1000’S PPB!! So it makes no difference what chemical they use when its a type thats persistent and very deadly to all other plants!

The trouble with this new law is that these large farms that grow and supply hay and haylage STILL can legally use the persistent herbicides on their commercial forage crops, sell forage to jo public, and we have horse yards up and down the country with (unbeknownst to them) contaminated manure which they freely offer to gardeners/small holdings/ farmers…whoever will take it to use it as fertiliser.
So it hasnt stopped the epidemic of horticulture soils being contaminated with herbicides if animal manures are used to fertilise their crops.

The agri industry LOVE this class of herbicide chemicals as it kills EVERYTHING but grass. So its used on commercial meat animal grazing and hay leys globally now.
The only but major downside to these chemicals is its half-life to die being soooo long - in fact the producers published half-life report has been proven to be false. They absolutely falsified that data, as real life in the field experiences are not aligning to their data, and as stated, even many years old manure contains still active herbicide residue.
The second most loved chemical is Glyphosate - as that kills EVERYTHING, including grass - helps to strip a field bare of plants to plant a new crop. That has multiple downsides health-wise for animal and man, but at least its half life is short and doesnt hang around in soils killing plants for years.

MANY smaller horticulturalists have no idea this is the issue with manure use, or the reason for their weird crop growth and low yields. Its like i said, a silent epidemic, as this chemical class of herbicides doesnt glow in the dark - you cant see or sense it. If it did glow in the dark the whole earth would be lit up.

Its a class of chemicals that’s as ‘Anti-Nature’ as man could ever invent, and its an absolute crime against all life on earth that such chemicals were EVER put into global agri circulation.

The UK banned aminopyralid a while ago, then politicians changed seats, agri lobbyists had new targets to encourage change of law, so it was changed to being legal again. Earths soils ruined for the almighty financial profit beast.




OP - its best to spot spray or dig-up if you have minimal weeds, and fertilise separately. There’s no point putting fertiliser on weeds or herbicide on areas of good grass, so best to treat separately.

 

[rextherobber]

The relatively modern herbicides are chemicals used that are considered ‘persistent’ herbicides. Aminopyralid and clopyralid being the most commonly used globally now.
The half life of these chemicals is so long that they persist in manure piles for years. Ive got such samples, now 10 years old and the herbicides in the manure will kill any plant, as the manure has it concentrated when fully rotted down.
If the manure is used for horticulture, the dosage to kill flower/veg/fruit crops of the above chemicals at a mere 5-10 PPB (parts per billion).
The only thing these chemicals dont kill is grass -so its safe to spread on grassland.

But here’s the thing - my 10yr old manure spread on my land, means the grass will uptake the old ancient herbicide, and grow grass, because this herbicide is designed to kill everything but not grass. So my horses graze the paddock, eat the grass containing the old herbicide, poop it out the other side, and my current manure pile now has the 10yr old herbicide transferred into it once again….there’s no getting rid of it! It just travels from one place to another via grazing animals. No wonder they call them persistent herbicides.

So to prevent this massive silent epidemic of horticulture farms getting their soils contaminated with these herbicides by using animal manures laced with them, and enduring loss of income of thousands per year in lost deformed crops - the regulations changed so that small-time animal keepers and residential gardeners could not use such chemicals and only large licenced farms can use them only.

I check with major commercial suppliers i use which herbicides they use and they have mostly switched from aminopyralid to clopyralid now.
Its marketed as being ‘gentler’ on soils and plants.
So instead of 2-5ppb kill rate of all plants, which is aminopyralid dose, clopyralid requires a 5-10ppb dose to kill horticulture soils.

The average dose in a handful of rotted manure is 1000’S PPB!! So it makes no difference what chemical they use when its a type thats persistent and very deadly to all other plants!

The trouble with this new law is that these large farms that grow and supply hay and haylage STILL can legally use the persistent herbicides on their commercial forage crops, sell forage to jo public, and we have horse yards up and down the country with (unbeknownst to them) contaminated manure which they freely offer to gardeners/small holdings/ farmers…whoever will take it to use it as fertiliser.
So it hasnt stopped the epidemic of horticulture soils being contaminated with herbicides if animal manures are used to fertilise their crops.

The agri industry LOVE this class of herbicide chemicals as it kills EVERYTHING but grass. So its used on commercial meat animal grazing and hay leys globally now.
The only but major downside to these chemicals is its half-life to die being soooo long - in fact the producers published half-life report has been proven to be false. They absolutely falsified that data, as real life in the field experiences are not aligning to their data, and as stated, even many years old manure contains still active herbicide residue.
The second most loved chemical is Glyphosate - as that kills EVERYTHING, including grass - helps to strip a field bare of plants to plant a new crop. That has multiple downsides health-wise for animal and man, but at least its half life is short and doesnt hang around in soils killing plants for years.

MANY smaller horticulturalists have no idea this is the issue with manure use, or the reason for their weird crop growth and low yields. Its like i said, a silent epidemic, as this chemical class of herbicides doesnt glow in the dark - you cant see or sense it. If it did glow in the dark the whole earth would be lit up.

Its a class of chemicals that’s as ‘Anti-Nature’ as man could ever invent, and its an absolute crime against all life on earth that such chemicals were EVER put into global agri circulation.

The UK banned aminopyralid a while ago, then politicians changed seats, agri lobbyists had new targets to encourage change of law, so it was changed to being legal again. Earths soils ruined for the almighty financial profit beast.




OP - its best to spot spray or dig-up if you have minimal weeds, and fertilise separately. There’s no point putting fertiliser on weeds or herbicide on areas of good grass, so best to treat separately.

Thank you for this very informative and worrying reply. I was feeling quite smug about my unfertilised for 50+ years land, until I got to the bit about the hay...

 

[Fieldlife]

The relatively modern herbicides are chemicals used that are considered ‘persistent’ herbicides. Aminopyralid and clopyralid being the most commonly used globally now.
The half life of these chemicals is so long that they persist in manure piles for years. Ive got such samples, now 10 years old and the herbicides in the manure will kill any plant, as the manure has it concentrated when fully rotted down.
If the manure is used for horticulture, the dosage to kill flower/veg/fruit crops of the above chemicals at a mere 5-10 PPB (parts per billion).
The only thing these chemicals dont kill is grass -so its safe to spread on grassland.

But here’s the thing - my 10yr old manure spread on my land, means the grass will uptake the old ancient herbicide, and grow grass, because this herbicide is designed to kill everything but not grass. So my horses graze the paddock, eat the grass containing the old herbicide, poop it out the other side, and my current manure pile now has the 10yr old herbicide transferred into it once again….there’s no getting rid of it! It just travels from one place to another via grazing animals. No wonder they call them persistent herbicides.

So to prevent this massive silent epidemic of horticulture farms getting their soils contaminated with these herbicides by using animal manures laced with them, and enduring loss of income of thousands per year in lost deformed crops - the regulations changed so that small-time animal keepers and residential gardeners could not use such chemicals and only large licenced farms can use them only.

I check with major commercial suppliers i use which herbicides they use and they have mostly switched from aminopyralid to clopyralid now.
Its marketed as being ‘gentler’ on soils and plants.
So instead of 2-5ppb kill rate of all plants, which is aminopyralid dose, clopyralid requires a 5-10ppb dose to kill horticulture soils.

The average dose in a handful of rotted manure is 1000’S PPB!! So it makes no difference what chemical they use when its a type thats persistent and very deadly to all other plants!

The trouble with this new law is that these large farms that grow and supply hay and haylage STILL can legally use the persistent herbicides on their commercial forage crops, sell forage to jo public, and we have horse yards up and down the country with (unbeknownst to them) contaminated manure which they freely offer to gardeners/small holdings/ farmers…whoever will take it to use it as fertiliser.
So it hasnt stopped the epidemic of horticulture soils being contaminated with herbicides if animal manures are used to fertilise their crops.

The agri industry LOVE this class of herbicide chemicals as it kills EVERYTHING but grass. So its used on commercial meat animal grazing and hay leys globally now.
The only but major downside to these chemicals is its half-life to die being soooo long - in fact the producers published half-life report has been proven to be false. They absolutely falsified that data, as real life in the field experiences are not aligning to their data, and as stated, even many years old manure contains still active herbicide residue.
The second most loved chemical is Glyphosate - as that kills EVERYTHING, including grass - helps to strip a field bare of plants to plant a new crop. That has multiple downsides health-wise for animal and man, but at least its half life is short and doesnt hang around in soils killing plants for years.

MANY smaller horticulturalists have no idea this is the issue with manure use, or the reason for their weird crop growth and low yields. Its like i said, a silent epidemic, as this chemical class of herbicides doesnt glow in the dark - you cant see or sense it. If it did glow in the dark the whole earth would be lit up.

Its a class of chemicals that’s as ‘Anti-Nature’ as man could ever invent, and its an absolute crime against all life on earth that such chemicals were EVER put into global agri circulation.

The UK banned aminopyralid a while ago, then politicians changed seats, agri lobbyists had new targets to encourage change of law, so it was changed to being legal again. Earths soils ruined for the almighty financial profit beast.




OP - its best to spot spray or dig-up if you have minimal weeds, and fertilise separately. There’s no point putting fertiliser on weeds or herbicide on areas of good grass, so best to treat separately.

Is there any research / factual websites that back the above up? I thought modern, hormonal herbicides were much more specific and much less harmful than older ones?

 

[Esmae]

deleted having read the rest of the thread.

 

[MagicMelon]

Right so Graze on Pro it its then! Not bothered about any "ban" on it being used in horse fields, its my own land and only I use the manure on my own veg plot (and never had any issues). I also keep the horses off any weedkilled bits for double the recommended time. Its just a faff having to walk about fertilising it and then spraying it as well. I do weedkill spray by hand so am certainly not spraying it out all over everything like my local farmers do routinely.

I figured if you can get all-in-one type pellets for lawns, they surely have invented for horse fields by now!

 

[PurBee]

Is there any research / factual websites that back the above up? I thought modern, hormonal herbicides were much more specific and much less harmful than older ones?

Yes, but you won’t find all the factual data neatly compiled in any one resource. Its strewn throughout the search engine results like gems amidst rocks - many sources are repeaters of Dow agrichemicals ‘data’ and paid-for research, while others are independent funded studies, and real-life results of using the chemicals and secondary contaminated composts/manures.
Many agri universities are now moreso than before studying the subject, and more importantly how to solve it.

It’s very telling that after many lawsuits for damages were brought again Dow due to these persistent herbicides contaminating horticulture farms, a law was brought in that ANYONE using these chemicals were not to sell the products off-farm to the general public, and if they did they HAVE TO clearly state on labelling of the product it must NOT be composted or use resulting manure from animals eating said product.
Out of all the commercial large UK and Irish hay/lage suppliers i have used, who have confirmed to me in writing they use this class of herbicides, not ONE of them have any labelling on their product and are in fact breaking the user law of using such herbicides.

Hence why even my 2-bit farming enterprise has effectively accrued in total €800k in losses due to this issue primarily, because NO-ONE using these herbicides realises what theyre dealing with and dont bother reading anything of the label except mixing/dilution ratios, so dont even follow the LAWS regarding their use, and subsequent labelling.

Modern herbicides are far more powerful than older ones. Youre correct that they have developed chemicals to kill a certain class of plant, and be very specific with targeting in that way, but the ‘persistent herbicide’ class targets cell growth nodules that are plentiful in all plants and not grass - hence its use for grazing/hay fields specifically.
So its safer for your land and field if you just have thistles to use a thistle targeted herbicide, and not a herbicide that kills all weeds and not grass, as those ones will include the persistent chemicals ingredient.

I’ve given brief info about this issue, and there’s an ocean of other reasons why these types of chemicals shouldnt be used. Its a vast subject, thats taken years of research, that really is summed-up perfectly in the Pubchem official database for chemicals website when it states under the toxicity guidelines section for Aminopyralid chemical “Should not be spread in the environment”.
Well Dow didnt take any notice of that advisory, did they….and the consequences have been utterly dire.

It’s only due to personal losses because of this issue on my farm im INTO the subject, yet i realise i’ve lost a lot less than many much larger farms who have met utter devastation very quickly if hundreds of acres were hit by manure sources contaminated. It means shutting the farm for a few years as using the soil for food isnt feasible. It would require conversion to grass seeding the whole lot and grazing it with meat stock.

It took me 3 months to get a reply from a major uk forage supplier i import what herbicide they used. They told me initially what they didnt use, not what they DO use! Eventually the persistent chemical culprit was declared. Not labelled or declared to their off-farm customers. I unknowingly ruined an ancient wild soils farm that have never ever had an agri chemical past its gates, and alongside that ruined myself financially due to this issue. Its exceedingly concerning governing powers have not taken this issue as seriously as they should. Im small fry….there’s communities to feed.
Ironically the financial losses meant im not in a position to sue. Im selling-up for use as a grazing/stock farm - a type of farm enterprise no use or interest to me as a vegetarian for over 20yrs!

 

[PurBee]

Thank you for this very informative and worrying reply. I was feeling quite smug about my unfertilised for 50+ years land, until I got to the bit about the hay...

You never know, you may be fine if you get your hay from a relatively small local farmer who has just spot sprayed for weeds, and doesnt annually or bi-annually drench the entire farm in herbicides, like the larger commercial forage enterprises.

 

[rextherobber]

You never know, you may be fine if you get your hay from a relatively small local farmer who has just spot sprayed for weeds, and doesnt annually or bi-annually drench the entire farm in herbicides, like the larger commercial forage enterprises.

I do get my hay from just such a chap, but he uses a contractor for spraying...

 

[PurBee]

I do get my hay from just such a chap, but he uses a contractor for spraying...

If he’s your regular supplier, then its worth finding out what the contractor uses. It could be any of the array of broadleaf herbicides available.