AmyMay
Situation normal
Oh for goodness sake......
All in the name of sport * WARNING*
- Thread starter TicTac
- Start date
Oh for goodness sake......
flyingfeet
Well-Known Member
All horse sports carry risk, but I wish racing would put an age limit on like every other discipline
I don't want to see anything younger than 4 racing, and won't gamble on any younger horse racing. I doubt the punters care, so don't see why they cannot have older horse races.
I don't like PETA, but making a yearling run full pelt is cruel and unnecessary
I don't want to see anything younger than 4 racing, and won't gamble on any younger horse racing. I doubt the punters care, so don't see why they cannot have older horse races.
I don't like PETA, but making a yearling run full pelt is cruel and unnecessary
fburton
Well-Known Member
Pardon? Would you prefer I delete that sentence?
amandap
Well-Known Member
Stronger than who? Just wondering which horses the comparison is made with.
Have you got a link to this research please?
By the way. I haven't watched the video. The last one I saw a few minutes of was the Conklin dairy farm cattle abuse one and I have no desire or strength to watch animals suffer in these ways anymore.
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Ibblebibble
Well-Known Member
as horrific to watch as that video was, and i couldn't watch all of it, you have to take into account that it is a piece of Peta propaganda
the lovely people who don't believe any animals/birds should be kept as pets let alone anyone ride a horse!
Over what period of time did those deaths on the track happen, 1 week ? 1 month? 5 years?
We all know that horses die in all equestrian sports , not just racing, but how many of us still love to watch eventing on the TV or go to events to watch?
FWIW no i don't think 2 yr olds should race or be pushed to the extremes, but that's an opinion based on what i know about horses rather than some Peta video
the lovely people who don't believe any animals/birds should be kept as pets let alone anyone ride a horse!Over what period of time did those deaths on the track happen, 1 week ? 1 month? 5 years?
We all know that horses die in all equestrian sports , not just racing, but how many of us still love to watch eventing on the TV or go to events to watch?
FWIW no i don't think 2 yr olds should race or be pushed to the extremes, but that's an opinion based on what i know about horses rather than some Peta video
Elf On A Shelf
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The comparison was made to TB's of the same age, bred for the same job but not started their careers yet.
No link, twas an hour long discussion with Scotlands top vet for racehorses last year. Was quite informative - my horse won his race and was in the dope box for routine testing and he wouldn't pee. They give you 40-50mins before they draw blood instead and we evidently had plenty of time to kill so discussed the merits of starting younger vs older.
No link, twas an hour long discussion with Scotlands top vet for racehorses last year. Was quite informative - my horse won his race and was in the dope box for routine testing and he wouldn't pee. They give you 40-50mins before they draw blood instead and we evidently had plenty of time to kill so discussed the merits of starting younger vs older.
Aces_High
Well-Known Member
The only papers I can find all have to be purchased. The conditioning of horses at a young age has been food for thought within the racing industry for a long period of time now.
They have done some studies with a group of foals being hand exercised against a group who haven't and then followed them through their 3 yr old career. The sales prep which these horses receive being yearlings is also a good start to their lives. They are being hand led for up to 45 minutes a day. A bit of lunging is thrown in and some time on the horse walker. All of this is hugely benefical prior to the animal being broken in. Sorry bit of a tangent but there was another paper about how sales prep aids horses who are following a career into racing.
They have done some studies with a group of foals being hand exercised against a group who haven't and then followed them through their 3 yr old career. The sales prep which these horses receive being yearlings is also a good start to their lives. They are being hand led for up to 45 minutes a day. A bit of lunging is thrown in and some time on the horse walker. All of this is hugely benefical prior to the animal being broken in. Sorry bit of a tangent but there was another paper about how sales prep aids horses who are following a career into racing.
amandap
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I don't feel that is a proven fact though, it sounds more like his opinion from his extensive experience. That experience is also coloured by his work experience and beliefs...
I believe Pat Parelli has extensive experience too in his area... just making a point here not getting at you.
I believe a comparison between tb's who have had (for arguments sake) 'natural' starts to their lives and were working with more 'natural' management would be more useful tbh. Just my opinion.
amandap
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I take it this is on top of 24/7 turnout.
fburton
Well-Known Member
It is possible we were introduced at Hamilton.
Here's an article that talks about this subject:
http://www.grayson-jockeyclub.org/newsimages/catastrophic_injuries.pdf
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Aces_High
Well-Known Member
When the yearlings are being sales prepped they are stabled.
I must admit going against 99.9% of the people on this forum. I do not have a problem with horses being stabled. My horses are perfectly happy being stabled, they are warm, groomed, happy, plenty to eat and drink and get exercised. I think in the ideal world then yes it would be wonderful to have our horses at an elite level being turned out all day everyday. But it isn't going to happen. I have the same opinion to working dogs living in kennels. They know that it is their home, yes they love to come out for their walk or their training but try and stop them from going back into their kennels - no chance!
The thoughts of training from an early age will certainly have some papers accessible somewhere as like I have said in a previous post they have spoken about this for a good few years now.
Aces_High
Well-Known Member
I should also add my bay horse in my signature fractured his off hind pastern when he was a 6 yr old. I also had a lovely Cadeaux filly who had fractured a front pastern - her's was screwed and plated. The bay's happened on the gallops and the filly's happened on the track. Both horses continued to have a successful race career and both as sound as a pound.
Elf On A Shelf
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Yours only fractured bones? Jeezo! My big lad had his heart hanging in his body by one vein after the big lumox landed on his foot and shoved it through his chest! He continued to race for 4 more years (after recovery time evidently) and won another 5 races. He is now a show horse with a minor indentation for his trouble!
Injury isn't the be all and end all and it most certianly isn't always a fatal outcome.
ETA - If we aren't careful we're gonna end up turning this into a - mine did more than yours thread lol!
amandap
Well-Known Member
I wonder about the effects of inactivity(stabling) for long periods on the whole body when hard work is required and ask whether this could be a contributory factor to catastrophic injury.
If it was a good or the best system for exceptional performance in athletes why don't humans adopt a similar one for themselves is my simple question? Perhaps it's too simple...
If it was a good or the best system for exceptional performance in athletes why don't humans adopt a similar one for themselves is my simple question? Perhaps it's too simple...
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
A lot trainers train from the field. I rode out for a trainer who's horses are out 24/7. They however do not seem to have less injuries. Also they are not just taken out of their stable and galloped. All horses get some warm up first.
galaxy
Well-Known Member
I didn't say we should ignore. I purely said this is what happens in a different country (I know we "breeze" our horses too, but it is in a different way). I also don't like rolkur, but does that mean we should right off dressage as a whole because it is what that "sport" does? We should protest and show our feelings to what is happening to the horses in that video, but shouldn't right off the whole industry because of what one country does.
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
Elf On A Shelf
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These horses aren't just brought out of their boxes, galloped and popped back in. They are correctly warmed up and cooled down and could do anything upto and including 3hours work from start to finish. Some yards ride the horses twice a day others ride in the morning then put them on the horse walkers for a while in the afternoons. The yard I work in turn the horses out for 2hours everyday in groups of 2-4. Never alone and never any more than that unless they are on holiday when we have herds of up to 20horses grazing the 50acre fields for the summer.
Aces_High
Well-Known Member
I think that is an interesting question. What I will also add is that these horses get 45 minutes on the horse walker, an hour of ridden exercise, a pick of grass upon return from exercise after being washed off, some get a sand roll, then they go into their stables and have lunch. Evening stables again 45 minutes on the horse walker and a pick of grass, dressed over, stables set fair and then their supper. They have a very different routine to a lot of horses. The majority of event and showjumpers are all stabled so I struggle to see why race horses are sectioned out. Also the race horses would be getting a lot more time out of their stables!
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
That's not quite correct. In the UK racehorses are not allowed to run under the influence of performance-enhancing drugs or dope. Medication for certain conditions are allowed providing there is good cause and that the horses tested are below the regulated levels. In the US racing is regulated under each individual State's rules, which can often differ depending on which State the race is being held. Steroids were totally banned for racing TBs a few years ago and this is a blanket-ban for every US State.
Aces_High
Well-Known Member
For anyone who is interested I am happy to sit infront of the lap top this evening and type you a Joe Blogg's racehorse fitness programme to read.
Aces_High
Well-Known Member
I know that steroids are still used as there was a good trainer who was fined or banned this year for using them.
Horses can be trained on Lasix in the UK but not allowed to run on it. I am not aware of any trainers who would "train" their TB's whilst on pain relief. It is also counter productive to "train" them whilst they are on anti biotics. I know that the US is trying to ban drugs for the big international meetings - Breeder's Cup for an example. I am sure that in the US that you can race a horse on Bute? Like you have said it is all State specific.
Pluto
Well-Known Member
That's the first time EVER I've not been able to re watch a video .. .the "pop" noise of the cannon bone breaking will stay with me for days ..... :-(
Trish C
Well-Known Member
Oh I do apologise - if you'd actually read my WHOLE post you might see that I did indeed share my opinion and did so in what I consider to be a constructive way. The 'popcorn' comment - that one sentence out of a three/four paragraph post - was merely my way of saying that this is going to be an entertaining discussion. Which it is - I think well discussed, with both sides of the coin represented. I said nothing at all about 'fluffy bunnies' (I believe you are actually the first to bring that up) and had no intention of even implying anything about them. If you reread my post I think you'll find I actually said the exact same thing as your first sentence, with regards no horse sport being truly 'clean'
I'm not pro-racing, I'm not anti-racing, but I enjoy reading a discussion like this, it raises all sorts of issues on both sides that I hadn't considered before, so excuse me if I want to sit back and enjoy a debate. It does sadden me though when someone takes one sentence from a post and ignores the rest of it.
I didn't know, for instance, about horses in the USA being allowed to race on drugs, or about 'breeze ups', or the conditioning process etc. So thank you, but I'll continue to read and enjoy people's contributions, whatever side they be on, and hopefully learn from them
amandap
Well-Known Member
I wonder what the figures are. Thanks for that.
I know horses are warmed up etc. and have a very strict procedure for this to prevent injury. I wonder how much time they do spend moving, eating and interacting in a 24 hour period compared to the horses dominobrown refers to?
Why do some racehorses need lasix? It seems to me they are given a huge amount of drugs... if they are fit and healthy why?
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Curragh
Well-Known Member
Awful video but, I for one found it interesting. I have worked in racing for over 10 years and have had only one horse break a leg with me while galloping and that was in New Zealand. I'll never forget it, I broke my leg also, but I'm amazed that's all I did do after watching those jockeys getting flung about.
Racing is a huge industry and while 2 year old races are worth such big money, here and abroad it will continue. I worked in Australia, the 2 year olds there don't often go on to race at 3. They are usually screwed physically and mentally. I blame this on the 'magic million races' where if you buy from the sales, you qualify to win big money in these special races. Seen many a horse screwed, while owners are thinking of the money they could win!
It's a shame but I think racing 2 year olds will always happen as long as race courses put up the money!
Racing is a huge industry and while 2 year old races are worth such big money, here and abroad it will continue. I worked in Australia, the 2 year olds there don't often go on to race at 3. They are usually screwed physically and mentally. I blame this on the 'magic million races' where if you buy from the sales, you qualify to win big money in these special races. Seen many a horse screwed, while owners are thinking of the money they could win!
It's a shame but I think racing 2 year olds will always happen as long as race courses put up the money!
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
I have been involved in racing both within the UK and the USA for many years and unfortunately there will always be people who try to cheat the system. That happens in all countries, in all sports. Where such a high-money sport like TB horse racing is concerned regulations are taken seriously hence routine drug testing. The trainers who believe they will get away with it are in the minority and it's often just a matter of time before they are caught and banned/fined. A just "reward" in my opinion.
highlandponygirl
Well-Known Member
i really like horseracing but i just want to cry right now. didnt make it any further than the filly breaking her leg, just too horrific to watch. the poor girl, cant emagine the pain she must have gone through.
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
I am speachless. So desperately sad to do that to such beautiful young horses.
Elf On A Shelf
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Lasix reduces the chances/prevents a horse from bursting a blood vessel during work or a race. When they burst it is very obvious exactly when it happened as the horse could be galloping along quite the thing one seconds and dropping off or toiling along for no apparent reason the next. Lasix doesn't allow this to happen thus the horse continues running without a problem. Correct me if I am wrong but I think in Aus when a horse shows that it has bled twice it is no longer allowed to race. We have no such restrictions in the UK. A horse can bleed as many times as it likes and still run. My lad was a chronic bleeder.
I did read up on this the other year for one of my horses but dismissed it as it has far more horrific longer lasting effects down the line once usage has stopped than it's worth.