All in the name of sport * WARNING*

Aces_High said:
For anyone who is interested I am happy to sit infront of the lap top this evening and type you a Joe Blogg's racehorse fitness programme to read.
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That's kind. For me it's not the fitness program (which I'm sure is excellent btw) I question, it's what happens the rest of the time. I have always been awkward. :D
 
amandap said:
That's kind. For me it's not the fitness program (which I'm sure is excellent btw) I question, it's what happens the rest of the time. I have always been awkward. :D
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Ask as many questions as you want. I'd much rather you walked away from here educated rather than with a frosted vision of racing!

Yes horses in Australia are banned from racing if they bleed more than twice. I think bleeding if managed correctly can be ok. There are a lot of horses which bleed and we do not know unless we scope. I again looked extensively into Exercise Induced Pulmonary Edema (EIPH) as it was a subject which I found very interesting. Lasix is a diuretic and by getting the kidneys to get rid of excess water and salts.
When engaged in such activities, internal fluids place excessive pressure on the horse’s lungs causing the small capillaries within to break. This stress results in blood in the lungs which is often exhaled through the nostrils. The visible blood is what gives EIPH affected horses their common name, “Bleeders.” Lasix reduces the problem of EIPH by reducing the amount of fluid in the body, especially in the veins and arteries surrounding the lungs. This reduction of water reduces the pressure on the capillaries, reducing the likeliness that they will break and bleed.
I should add that Lasix isn't a "cure" or "quick fix" for all horses.
 
amandap said:
That's kind. For me it's not the fitness program (which I'm sure is excellent btw) I question, it's what happens the rest of the time. I have always been awkward. :D
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A week in our yard goes like this:

Monday: 7am all horses are given haylage. 7.30am feed all the horses that aren't being worked that lot. Turn the last ride of horses out in the fields. Tack up your horse and head out. On a Monday all horses just hack - walking hacks either round the old railway line or into town down the main road with the motorway 30m to our right.
9am all horses back in from fields, the lot we just rode will then go out in the field and we go get some breakfast.
9.30am we get on our next lot. Back for 11am when the fields will be swopped around again and we get on our next lot of horses. Same work load as the rest.
12pm off the 11am horse and onto the next one.
12.30pm there is always someone on the yard who will bring everything in from the fields, turf more out and then feed all of the horses.
1pm everyone is back, all horses that aren't in the field are in their boxes and we go for lunch.
2pm we are back and we bring everything in from the fields, brush off, check over and rug up all of the horses, they get more haylage and at 4pm we are all off home.
6pm the horses are given more hard food and have their legs checked over again.
7pm the yard is empty.
9pm the horses are fed again with hard feed and haylage.

Tuesday-Saturday is the same routine except the horses are working on the gallops and thus go on the horse walker for a minimum of 20mins once they have walked the 20mins home from the gallops. Again there is always one or 2 people left on the yard to take these guys off and deal with them.

Sunday - again same timings for everything but only the horses that are racing on Monday, Tuesday or Wednesy are ridden. The rest go on the horse walker for an hour and get turned out in the fields.

They all have automatic water drinkers so are never without a drink.
 
tallyho! said:
I sobbed seeing that video.

There are no excuses for racing yearlings.
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^^^^this

I despise the practice of backing yearlings to race them at 2, it's no wonder some break down.

It's a money game for the owners.

I have much less of a problem with NH, at least the horses are mature enough.
 
amandap said:
Yes, but I don't see the relevance of your question. I don't see riding per se as necessarily harmful though I believe it can be.

Of course riding is a risk but I'm not going to ride a new horse down a busy road am I? I prepare carefully both in management and training to reduce the risks as low as I can get them...
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But that is exactly what a racehorse trainer does - He manages the feeding and fittening regime so that when the horse races it is fit, sound and capable of racing without injury.

Paddock accidents happen - in one of the racing stables I worked in in NZ our horses were all turned out in pairs for about 5hours every day. One pair went in the paddock, one trotted off the other did a rear and a buck and a front leg shattered, another broke his neck after someone forgot to do up the back straps of his cover, he took off across the paddock the cover started to flap, he panicked, went over the fence and galloped down the raceway, eventually stepping on the cover which was now around his front legs, it tripped him over and he broke his neck. Another - one of the ones I cared for went out onto the training track and during her canter work her front leg shattered. These were all at home accidents The first a freak accident, the second the result of a careless groom, the third could possibly been avoided but no-one listened to me, Maggie had bitten me a few days before when I had moved her over while mucking out her box, normally a very sweet filly biting was so very unlike her, I told the trainer that I felt something wasn't right with her but he chose to ignore me. She must have been in pain with a leg already damaged by the race she had run the previous weekend.

We have 'Ready to Run' sales here - but horses are not run beforehand - it is up to the purchaser to study the breeding lines and the horse offered for sale before buying.
 
Humans have always abused horses since horses became domesticated animals. Used in war and as beasts of burden until machines took over, they still form part of the economy and the economy is ruthless - doesn't care about welfare. So it was PETA made the video - they didn't make it up. We humans are cruel bastards.
 
mle22 said:
Humans have always abused horses since horses became domesticated animals. Used in war and as beasts of burden until machines took over, they still form part of the economy and the economy is ruthless - doesn't care about welfare. So it was PETA made the video - they didn't make it up. We humans are cruel bastards.
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I was thinking that this was a very good thread, well ballanced and informative, nobody getting heated and listening to each other. Until your ridiculous contribution.
 
Awful video to watch! especially the poor filly breaking her canon bone, never seen something like that :( poor girl.
Bu tbh this video is obviously the worst of the worst that happens out racing and this happens in other sports but its just that there are many more horses taking part in racing and thats what we see. I'm not against racing as i quite enjoy working with racers and going to watch aswell but i dont really like that they are so young.

It seems most racehorses are quite dispencable, maybe because racing careers dont last as long as other equine sports careers as they start training quite young. Thats what i really hate as they dont have time to just be young but then again i dont actaully know if there is reason for training/racing so young.
 
A poster earlier asked about smaller lesser known yards - do they take care of their horses as well as the big stables and what goes o behind closed doors?

Well, I currently work for one such stable. The atmosphere is fantastic and our yard is very chilled out. Horses who have not thrived in busy yards tend to do well here hence many of our flat horses are older ones who are given another chance here. We also pretrain and have pointers/NH horses. There are mares, foals, youngstock and spelling horses grazing in the 250acres of excellent grazing here. Some of the pre-trainers are trained from the field - standing in for just 3 hrs a day. All of our horses get a minimum of 2 hrs turnout and are ridden for 1hr 45mins - thats 30mins flatwork in the arena, short hack to the gallops, 5 mins at the gallops (less really) then hack around the farm to cool off/river. I have never seen a happier bunch of horses. Of the five I regularly ride, there are 2 I would love to have when they finish racing. Ech of the horses in the yard have their own little quirks and behaviours. If they misbehave or act out of character they are given the benefit of the doubt (for instance fillies who just cant concentrate when in season will just hack out(in walk/trot) until they come through it/are injected) but of course dangerous behaviour is not tolerated and handled in a frim manner. Our horses can all be brought in/turned out in a headcollar (how many livery yards can say that!!!), they stand unheld to have their feet picked out in the yard, stand to be mounted, lunge well, jump cross country and all school beautifully on the flat. They are well rounded happy individuals. Their lads and lasses talk to them and about them constantly. For all of us, life resolves around them.
Inevitably there are injuries (as with all horses) - a death will have a huge impact on the stable staff and trainer. I have never seen any one raise a hand/mistreat ANY horse on this yard - that sort of behaviour is not tolerated. All those who work here are passionate about their horses. many of the staff have had no previous experience of racehorses and have come from different areas of equestrianism but they come away with nothing but positive views of racing.

Those who are unsure about the industry should go to the open days regularly organised around ewmarket/Lambourn/Middleham/Newbusry and see for themselves what really goes on. Take a trip to the gallops on work days - its well worth it.

I have also worked in he States both in private stud and training farms and on the racetrack - its a totally different ball game. Many horses are given bute 24hrs before a run (banned in 2yos in NY and possibly the other states now). From next year 2yos will no longer be allowed to run on Lasix and the Breeder's Cup is to be drug free from 2013. The US racing bodies are aware of the poor reputation of their sport and are making strides to improve it. Not before time IMO.

One memory that stands out to me from my recent time on the track over there was a guy I met every morning when I treated the horses in his care. He was, Id guess you would say well below the poverty line. He had 8 2yos in his care (assistant barn manager) - and was paid peahunts. He ADORED these horses. Couldnt talk about them enough. He knew every cough/breath they took. He lived for them. But he was treated like a lower life form by the trainer's wife (who seemed to run the ship though she was in another state). They didnt bother to organise accomodation for him (all trainers usually do - there are "houses" on track). They refused to pay for it so he stayed in the tackroom on the dirt floor- with no ventilation/air flow unless the door was left open. If the door wa sleft open the mosquitos would feast on you (no joke!). In contrast, the horses had deep beds, door fans and the best of everything. But this guy stayed because of the love he had for horses and racing. He was exploited by his employers - now that to me is the worst side of racing. Thankfully its far less common over here (though it does happen).
 
I know bad things can happen at any given time with horses but that has made me physically sick watching unmatured horses forced to run at those speeds when their bodies cannot cope. I do try to stay level headed as fatalities can happen anywhere
 
glenruby said:
A poster earlier asked about smaller lesser known yards - do they take care of their horses as well as the big stables and what goes o behind closed doors?

Well, I currently work for one such stable. The atmosphere is fantastic and our yard is very chilled out. Horses who have not thrived in busy yards tend to do well here hence many of our flat horses are older ones who are given another chance here. We also pretrain and have pointers/NH horses. There are mares, foals, youngstock and spelling horses grazing in the 250acres of excellent grazing here. Some of the pre-trainers are trained from the field - standing in for just 3 hrs a day. All of our horses get a minimum of 2 hrs turnout and are ridden for 1hr 45mins - thats 30mins flatwork in the arena, short hack to the gallops, 5 mins at the gallops (less really) then hack around the farm to cool off/river. I have never seen a happier bunch of horses. Of the five I regularly ride, there are 2 I would love to have when they finish racing. Ech of the horses in the yard have their own little quirks and behaviours. If they misbehave or act out of character they are given the benefit of the doubt (for instance fillies who just cant concentrate when in season will just hack out(in walk/trot) until they come through it/are injected) but of course dangerous behaviour is not tolerated and handled in a frim manner. Our horses can all be brought in/turned out in a headcollar (how many livery yards can say that!!!), they stand unheld to have their feet picked out in the yard, stand to be mounted, lunge well, jump cross country and all school beautifully on the flat. They are well rounded happy individuals. Their lads and lasses talk to them and about them constantly. For all of us, life resolves around them.
Inevitably there are injuries (as with all horses) - a death will have a huge impact on the stable staff and trainer. I have never seen any one raise a hand/mistreat ANY horse on this yard - that sort of behaviour is not tolerated. All those who work here are passionate about their horses. many of the staff have had no previous experience of racehorses and have come from different areas of equestrianism but they come away with nothing but positive views of racing.

Those who are unsure about the industry should go to the open days regularly organised around ewmarket/Lambourn/Middleham/Newbusry and see for themselves what really goes on. Take a trip to the gallops on work days - its well worth it.

I have also worked in he States both in private stud and training farms and on the racetrack - its a totally different ball game. Many horses are given bute 24hrs before a run (banned in 2yos in NY and possibly the other states now). From next year 2yos will no longer be allowed to run on Lasix and the Breeder's Cup is to be drug free from 2013. The US racing bodies are aware of the poor reputation of their sport and are making strides to improve it. Not before time IMO.

One memory that stands out to me from my recent time on the track over there was a guy I met every morning when I treated the horses in his care. He was, Id guess you would say well below the poverty line. He had 8 2yos in his care (assistant barn manager) - and was paid peahunts. He ADORED these horses. Couldnt talk about them enough. He knew every cough/breath they took. He lived for them. But he was treated like a lower life form by the trainer's wife (who seemed to run the ship though she was in another state). They didnt bother to organise accomodation for him (all trainers usually do - there are "houses" on track). They refused to pay for it so he stayed in the tackroom on the dirt floor- with no ventilation/air flow unless the door was left open. If the door wa sleft open the mosquitos would feast on you (no joke!). In contrast, the horses had deep beds, door fans and the best of everything. But this guy stayed because of the love he had for horses and racing. He was exploited by his employers - now that to me is the worst side of racing. Thankfully its far less common over here (though it does happen).
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need a like button!!
 
I enjoy racing - NH racing, but I've never liked flat racing. I don't agree with young horses being broken to race at such a young age.
I watched the video - truly awful.
I don't believe that all trainers are as good with their horses as EKW and Aces High clearly are - in fact I think that they are exceptions to the rule.

But as good as I think they probably are, I'll stick with supporting NH racing.
 
Holly Hocks said:
I enjoy racing - NH racing, but I've never liked flat racing. I don't agree with young horses being broken to race at such a young age.
I watched the video - truly awful.
I don't believe that all trainers are as good with their horses as EKW and Aces High clearly are - in fact I think that they are exceptions to the rule.

But as good as I think they probably are, I'll stick with supporting NH racing.
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I promise you that I can take you to over 20 yards off the top of my head now and show you just how good the care and welfare of the animals is. I am truely flat racing through and through - other than a bit of point to point in my early years. It saddens me that people think that the way I do things isn't the majority. There are some amazing trainers, members of staff, head lads etc etc. I want to gather the whole of HHO who would like to learn more and show them exactly what I mean.
 
Im with you Aces_High. Though I currently work in a mixed yard I have been in most of the biggest flat yards in Britain, Ireland and the States and have yet to see the cruelty that HHO posters seem to think is the norm in racing. I adore flat racing and NH. The more I experience of it, the more involved I want to be.
 
Aces_High said:
I promise you that I can take you to over 20 yards off the top of my head now and show you just how good the care and welfare of the animals is. I am truely flat racing through and through - other than a bit of point to point in my early years. It saddens me that people think that the way I do things isn't the majority. There are some amazing trainers, members of staff, head lads etc etc. I want to gather the whole of HHO who would like to learn more and show them exactly what I mean.
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I second this. I think everyone should get a look inside racing. It's wide open at the moment but I think the preconceived ideas are too hard to shift so lets open it up even further.
 
glenruby said:
Though I currently work in a mixed yard I have been in most of the biggest flat yards in Britain, Ireland and the States and have yet to see the cruelty that HHO posters seem to think is the norm in racing.
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That's always been my experience too but I think many HHO posters don't have any direct personal experience of these trainers and yards so don't know what goes on and then they see videos such as the one posted and put 2 and 2 together.
 
I have posted before about the ones i have seen and was not overly impressed, i would love to see some nice flat yards to be proved a little bit wrong!!!

I will hopefully have the chance to watch some horses do their morning exercise soon and visit a traiiners yard over here (i am in France). You cannot just go and watch the morning gallops like you can in newmarket etc and i was talking to someone the other day and they said i could go and have a look around, cant wait!! :) I am in the middle of racehorse country!!!!
 
Owl and Bo said:
Well said mle22! Agree 100%. Makes me ashamed to be part of the human race!
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Don't be ashamed unless you are sitting back and doing nothing about it. Cruelty is around, no bones about that, but if we all do our bit to help where we can then it means a better life for some horses. There are many ex racers who make fabulous pleasure mounts and if you are truly interested in trying to make a difference to these horses then you should look into adopting or purchasing one off the track.
 
Glenruby, thanks for your reply. I have no doubt that many many horses in the racing industry are well cared for and it may have been slightly underhanded of me to suggest that lesser well known stables might not issue that care, but my overall view of flat racing is that of ' battery ' breeding and the necessity for a quick turn around. I know 2 people who have worked for a large stud in Newmarket and both have said how they do not like how the youngsters are treated. The horses want for nothing as far as food and bedding is concerned but too many horses and not enough time and patients to handle them properly leads to very rough and brutal treatment to get them prepared for a life in racing

Yes, this was an american film but it's still part of the bigger picture. Those were very young horses being pushed to their limits and what we consider very young horses are raced in this country too. All in the name of sport!
 
Allover said:
I have posted before about the ones i have seen and was not overly impressed, i would love to see some nice flat yards to be proved a little bit wrong!!!

I will hopefully have the chance to watch some horses do their morning exercise soon and visit a traiiners yard over here (i am in France). You cannot just go and watch the morning gallops like you can in newmarket etc and i was talking to someone the other day and they said i could go and have a look around, cant wait!! :) I am in the middle of racehorse country!!!!
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Where in France are you? Very jealous!! Go to Longchamp on Arc day - it's coming up. You will be able to speak to so many people as they are all very friendly and invite yourself for some tours of the stables. Are you far from Chantilly? I can give you some English trainers you can visit there? Or if you would prefer French then I can arrange that for you. I might Eurostar it over and come along to!!
 
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