ALWAYS go with your gut. Anyone with KS experiences?

[Elvis]

The ligament Op was not suitable for my horse. He had ten processes touching and some were fused. He had the op to remove five processes. Sadly it did not return him to being ridden. He is now retired age 12.

Oh I'm really sorry to hear that. The outcomes of KS seem to be so varied. Your horse is very lucky to have an owner who has allowed him to have a happy retirement. Btw your new-ish youngster is lovely! I hope she makes the height you want!

 

[Red-1]

BTW, in addition to the above, I teach a lot of people who have confidence issues, and many many times I ride the horse and feel that there are physical issues. The rider does not have a confidence issue at all, they have a Gut Feeling that all is not well, and they are being utterly correct.

I also know that often vets etc do not find the cause. Some horses will shut up and put up, the others will start "naughty" behaviour. Many times the people I help have been verbally put down, and made to feel bad.

I would echo that you have learned to trust your gut, in some horses that is all you will have to work with. A valuable life lesson.

As a professional trainer I sometimes find it hard to convince saddlers vets, etc etc that there really is an issue, so if you are "going it alone" I can only empathise with your difficulties. Well done for finding the pro who has confirmed it all for you.

 

[Elvis]

My vet has done an initial assessment and agrees there is some tenderness over one side of the SI joint and that he's not working well from behind. She's going to do some nerve blocking next week and the bone scan will be the next step to determine how bad it is.

I know what you mean about feeling relief, I was also starting to doubt myself and feel like I was just being a pessimistic nuisance so it's good to find someone who finally agrees with me. Someone else mentioned earlier on about instructors riding the horse themselves, but neither of mine did and in hindsight I think this would have made quite a difference to their opinions.

Never mind. We're on the right tracks now

Pip.

It's interesting isn't it that instructors feel they are able to make a conclusion about whether your horse is 'right' without riding them. With the nerve blocking will it be with you riding after the blocks and then letting the vet know whether you feel a change? My vet didn't do nerve blocks as Elvis isn't lame therefore the vet didn't think he'd see a change in him. If you still have doubts after the nerve block definitely go for the bone scan. Keep me updated.

 

[Wagtail]

Oh I'm really sorry to hear that. The outcomes of KS seem to be so varied. Your horse is very lucky to have an owner who has allowed him to have a happy retirement. Btw your new-ish youngster is lovely! I hope she makes the height you want!

Thank you.

 

[Elvis]

Hi,

I think you should congratulate yourself for seeing this through thick and thin. You knew something was wrong and got professional advice from 2 trainers, vet and physio, then you went with a pro to see if a professional rider would be the answer, which was a good example of a caring and thoughtful owner swallowing ego for the sake of your horse.

Now, after all was exciting and well with competitions looming, your horse is proven to have a physical problem, and still you have the welfare of your horse at heart. Again, I applaud you.

In reply to your later quotes I also hope that all is well, and Elvis turns out to be just the horse you always dreamed of. If not, then I know you will make the right decision. For the both of you.

Good luck with the future. X

Thank you for your kind words. It's been a bit of a emotional roller coaster! I bawled my eyes out when the pro phoned to say he wasn't happy with how Elvis felt. I thought we'd closed that chapter, and then I was angry, with myself and with those who'd convinced me nothing was wrong. But once I'd spoken to the vet, and received the results of all the tests all I felt was relief, finally I knew what was wrong, and now we have a plan of action.

And in reply to your second comment, that's really interesting. My instructor was always insisting that I looked tense on Elvis. I only started to lose my confidence when he started to behave unpredictably, but for the months before that I just felt uncomfortable on him, I didn't want to push him, I didn't agree with what I was being told to do but didn't feel I could say anything. It was also always noted that I was far more confident on other horses, but that was because I felt I could push them, I didn't have to worry about hurting them, so of course I was more relaxed.
It'll be interesting to see how his behaviour is when he's bought back into work.
Thanks again Red

 

[TarrSteps]

BTW, in addition to the above, I teach a lot of people who have confidence issues, and many many times I ride the horse and feel that there are physical issues. The rider does not have a confidence issue at all, they have a Gut Feeling that all is not well, and they are being utterly correct.

I also know that often vets etc do not find the cause. Some horses will shut up and put up, the others will start "naughty" behaviour. Many times the people I help have been verbally put down, and made to feel bad.

I would echo that you have learned to trust your gut, in some horses that is all you will have to work with. A valuable life lesson.

As a professional trainer I sometimes find it hard to convince saddlers vets, etc etc that there really is an issue, so if you are "going it alone" I can only empathise with your difficulties. Well done for finding the pro who has confirmed it all for you.

I would say that accurately reflects the bulk of my experience. That said, I have ridden a few horses for assessment and then for the vet and i suspect, unfairly, they have taken my assessment more seriously than they have the owner's thoughts, perhaps because I am more confident in my own feel. I'm quite happy to 'discuss' my views with a vet as, while I respect their own education and experience, I don't devalue my own. I think having someone who has ridden thousands of horses involved in a situation like this can be very useful. After all, it's just another opinion, like getting a saddler or a physio involved.

I will all also say though, I sit on quite a few horses that are 'not right' but improve tremendously with minor intervention and different work/riding. This often takes dedication and adjustment on the owner's part - and, frankly, some swallowing of ego to accept other input - but it can certainly result in a cheery outcome.

I think a lot of people here are in the unenviable position of not having a really strong support system/experienced mentor to help them in situations like this. It must make it very difficult!

 

[Elvis]

I would say that accurately reflects the bulk of my experience. That said, I have ridden a few horses for assessment and then for the vet and i suspect, unfairly, they have taken my assessment more seriously than they have the owner's thoughts, perhaps because I am more confident in my own feel. I'm quite happy to 'discuss' my views with a vet as, while I respect their own education and experience, I don't devalue my own. I think having someone who has ridden thousands of horses involved in a situation like this can be very useful. After all, it's just another opinion, like getting a saddler or a physio involved.

I will all also say though, I sit on quite a few horses that are 'not right' but improve tremendously with minor intervention and different work/riding. This often takes dedication and adjustment on the owner's part - and, frankly, some swallowing of ego to accept other input - but it can certainly result in a cheery outcome.

I think a lot of people here are in the unenviable position of not having a really strong support system/experienced mentor to help them in situations like this. It must make it very difficult!

I agree regarding vets taking the opinions of more experienced horse people more seriously than the less experienced owner. My initial vet certainly relied on my instructors opinions more than my own, and they hadn't even sat on Elvis. But on the flip side having the pro say to the vet they weren't happy with Elvis has meant a very quick diagnosis and a proactive approach. Plus we can quickly dismiss thoughts on the horse needing different/better schooling.
I definitely agree about most people not having a good support system, often said 'support' is very undermining of the owners opinions.

 

[TarrSteps]

I agree regarding vets taking the opinions of more experienced horse people more seriously than the less experienced owner. My initial vet certainly relied on my instructors opinions more than my own, and they hadn't even sat on Elvis. But on the flip side having the pro say to the vet they weren't happy with Elvis has meant a very quick diagnosis and a proactive approach. Plus we can quickly dismiss thoughts on the horse needing different/better schooling.
I definitely agree about most people not having a good support system, often said 'support' is very undermining of the owners opinions.

I look at it as a team work situation, in that everyone's input is valid. And, in the end, the owner is paying so they do get the ultimate call (sometimes against the best advice of everyone else involved but such is life). I do think perhaps people don't always get how much this is a part of how professional horses are run - it really does "take a village" to keep competition horses on the road and everyone plays a part, from groom to rider to vet.

I do see the problem though, as who to trust? If you feel you are not getting well served then you should make a change but then I also see people change their advisors when they don't like the information they are getting, even though it's true. Tricky! All you can do is muddle through and do your best. I do think if you find a "supporter" you trust though, you should try to build that relationship, so those people get to know you and your horse and they can inform from an position of knowledge. Then a "fresh eye" can be taken in context.

 

[Red-1]

I look at it as a team work situation, in that everyone's input is valid. And, in the end, the owner is paying so they do get the ultimate call (sometimes against the best advice of everyone else involved but such is life). I do think perhaps people don't always get how much this is a part of how professional horses are run - it really does "take a village" to keep competition horses on the road and everyone plays a part, from groom to rider to vet.

I do see the problem though, as who to trust? If you feel you are not getting well served then you should make a change but then I also see people change their advisors when they don't like the information they are getting, even though it's true. Tricky! All you can do is muddle through and do your best. I do think if you find a "supporter" you trust though, you should try to build that relationship, so those people get to know you and your horse and they can inform from an position of knowledge. Then a "fresh eye" can be taken in context.

Agree with all of the above. Would like to add that the best one to trust is the horse himself.

For example, I had saddle woes, several saddles / saddlers later still had a grouchy horse. Saddlers said it was not the saddle, I needed to know why my boy went better in a bareback pad than his saddle (!).

After a lot of consultation, I arranged to join a Pliance pressure testing day as part of the Saddle Research Trust, where we had a Pliance pressure pad to a computer and video readout with several different saddles, some mine, some not.

I found that I did not need the readout, I was able to tell the researchers what the fit was like within a 20m circle. Jay was right every time.

That is hard when all the "Pros" of saddle fitters had told me the saddle was fine. It was eventually sorted by his XC saddle has been made on a dressage tree, as he cannot take a forward facing tree point.

My point being - how many owners would have the conviction to go to such lengths to prove there was an "issue" for the horse being grouchy? And the cost?

With some clients, where I get the "Ice round the heart" feeling on their horses (how it feels to me when the horse is not comfortable) and feel there is a problem, it is like I am the harbringer of doom when I suggest teeth, saddle, back, vet all be considered.

As you say it takes a Village to keep a horse on the road correctly, and none of it is cheap.

I also agree with your previous posting TS, that many issues can be worked round to a smiley final result. Some horses just put up with it all, and some need more intricate handling. IMO often the more sensitive ones make the best horses in the end and bring their own rewards.


BTW, I am just musing, I know that Elvis has explored all avenues

 

[TarrSteps]

With some clients, where I get the "Ice round the heart" feeling on their horses (how it feels to me when the horse is not comfortable) and feel there is a problem, it is like I am the harbringer of doom when I suggest teeth, saddle, back, vet all be considered.

That is a great image - I know just what you mean!

I do think owners have to keep the second point in mind, too. I quite often see people ask for a second opinion and then, when it doesn't agree with the first one they got, their first response is "Well, I checked that." Okay, cool. There isn't much anyone can say after that, unfortunately. If the horse doesn't agree then it really is a stalemate and often it takes a more extreme development to start the process again.