Am I a dealer

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lucille

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Ok this is going to sound ridiculous

basically I own 2 horses, a 15hh Cob who I have owned for over 6 years now, and who I compete regularly

and a 17hh TB Gelding who I competed sucesfully untill last summer when he sustained a tendon injury.

We are unsure if he will ever be ridden again, although I am keeping him to give him the chance,

I only work part time, so came up with the idea that whilst he was off, I could look for a project horse, something to spend a bit of time with, have fun with, and then sell on.

The yard owner was happy with this, and I bought a 12.3 coloured pony, which I have backed and broken over the past few months and now sold on (subject to vetting) to some lovley people

I have been to see another horse, (15.1hh TB x ID 8 year old) that has had some time off due to owners work commitments, and needs re-schooling. My intentions were to get this horse, get him fit, reschool him over summer, use him for winter hunting, (I used to hunt my 17hh but obv cant now, and it would blow my 15hh cob's brains) and then after hunting season is over, sell the horse on.

Realisticlly I know im not going to make a hell of a profit, seen as I will be keeping him over winter, but seen as I will get use out of him hunting, this dosent bother me

Sooo I put this to the yard owner, expecting him to be fine, and he's basically hit the roof, saying I never informed him I was a dealer, he dosent want someone dealing off his yard rah rah rah

Now technically id never seen myself as a dealer, and think thats outrageous, this will be my seccond project and I intend to keep it some months for my own personal use, but I guess my end aim is to sell on.

So whats peoples opinions on this, is the yard owner over reacting, or is this the kind of response I should expect x
 
I wouldn't say that you're a dealer. Basically you're just getting something to hunt while your other horse is off work. I'd say the YO is over reacting...after all it's more money for livery in his pocket
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we always had 3 ponies when my daughter was under 16yo. we had to have a "project " one to pay the livery and entry fees etc. sometimes we had them up to a year, i never found a YO that had a problem with it as most are doing the same to subsidise there rent etc. i always had them wormed and vaccinated etc.
 
No I don't think your a dealer, I buy one and bring it on while I run my two eventers. Bring on about 1-2 a year. I think a dealer is someone who has several horses they have brought to bring on and sell. Your literaly making a bit of pocket money while yours is off, and allowing yourself to have some fun.
 
yeah, I knew about the 3 a year thing, but law and peoples opinions can often differ

Also the 3 a year thing, is a year 365 days, or jan - jan xx
 
I didn't know about the 3 horses a year thing, but IMHO you're not dealing are you? I think you may have been too honest with your YO - its not really up to him how long you keep a horse for, what if you had a succession of horses you bought for your own personal use, not intending to sell on, then just didnt' get on with? Iv'e bought horse/ponies for my kids and myself and theyve turned out to be not suitable and Iv'e sold them on and found them good homes - I never made any money, in fact I lost money on occasions because home was really more important that price - to my mind they were private sales, same as you.
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Sorry, but I am a YO, and I would not want people buying/selling horses. No you're not a dealer, but if a bad sale happened the yards' name would be in the details, giving it a bad name. I wouldn't hit the roof, but I would politely say I am not happy with what you are intending to do.
 
I have never heard of this 3 a year rule either. To be classified as a dealer, or trading in horses, HMRC (who ultimately is interested in this sort of activity for obvious reasons) would consider the 7 badges of trade.

Too long to really go into, but if buy something with the intention of modifying it and selling on then essentially you are trading in that object. So yes, I would think you were a dealer and therefore should be declaring your income to HMRC. So even if you only do this once, you are dealing.

Of course it will be considered on a case by case basis, and therefore if you sold one of your "own" horses after improving it over a number of years, I think HMRC would be hard pressed to claim that you are a dealer. But the pony and the potential TBx - yes.
 
I can see why you would be annoyed, but I agree with _Claire_... if it were my yard I wouldn't allow it either.
 
If I were in the YO's position, I would not want someone buying, bringing on and then selling horses from my yard. You gets all sorts of people coming and trying horses for sale and you never know who is going to turn up. I wouldn't class you as a dealer and I am sure the YO could have handled things more tactfully, but I think you have to respect their decision.
 
Think your yard owner might of used the wrong words by calling you a dealer, you want something to do, replace what you cant do, edjucate a few ponies/hores and find them good homes...putting profit asside because you enjoy doing it etc etc

However I can appreciate why he does not want his clients buying and selling, look at it from his point of view, you have done it once, your doing it again, how do you know you wont keep doing it...nothing wrong with it, but maybe thats what he;s thinking, just seeing it from his side.

He maybe concerned about disease, theives and of course an insurance point of view and a bad name should anything go wrong like someone suggested.

Don't think he should of over reacted, perhaps you just need a have friendly chat with him to iron out any conclusions he may of jumped to etc
 
In my opinion if you are buying to sell on you should be doing this from your own yard. If I was a livery on a yard where horses were being bought to sell on I would probably be moving on. When horses are advertised for sale all sorts of people end up on the yard, often looking at others, the yard gets a reputation as a selling yard etc etc. The horses come onto the yard as an unknown quantity, will they be grazing with other peoples animals?
We have our own place now and if you want to be able to do what you want when you want it is the only viable option.
 
I'm a YO and it wouldn't bother me. Your not a dealer, and if your planning hunting new horse you'll have it for what, 8 months or more? Quite a few people have this level of turn around anyway! I would want to discuss it with you as YO but my main concerns would be isolation on purchase, vaccination, worming and people coming to see it/security.
 
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In my opinion if you are buying to sell on you should be doing this from your own yard. If I was a livery on a yard where horses were being bought to sell on I would probably be moving on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt say I was on livery

We rent the yard off the owner, there are only our horses there and 1 of his grandkids, that lives out 24/7

Its not a proper livery yard
 
He probably doesnt like the idea of you making money lol! I turn around a horse every 2 yrs or so, buying them young/green in the first place, but if i put my time and expense in to it i dont really make anything, but it is nice to have a fat wad to put back in to the pot!
 
wow some of the people on my yard have a faster turn over than that just buying horses that are "wrong" for them. I think you were too honest with him - what a shame for you.
 
There is no hard and fast rule about how many horses you need to sell to be a "dealer". Every case turns on it's own facts and in many buyer/seller disputes, the preliminary argument is about whether the seller is a commercial/trade seller or selling as a private seller, because you have more rights against a commercial/trade seller than a private seller. All the circumstances of the sale and purchase are taken into account and the judge at any trial will decide, based on the facts as he/she finds them.
 
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