Am I alone in believing "back people" do more harm than good?

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noobs31

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"Back people" are a new phenomenon to me, I started out in a most basic environment. But after a move down South and the entirely new experience which is the livery yard, they seem to be prolific. Now don't get me wrong, after a particularly nasty fall I've used an osteopath for years to keep me riding and working. However, I've moved yards a few times already, yet the "back person" is always present. Personally I've no desire to ever involve one, because from what I've seen so far, his/her "pelvis is out" every time. And I firmly believe, if this were true, the animal would not walk. Yet it does.

So these were my suspicions. But today a horse on my yard, pronounced fine by a "back person", was diagnosed with kissing spine. Ok so they don't have x-ray eyes (despite their ability to proclaim where a pelvis is). But what I would expect them to have, is the ability to identify tight muscle (which is not hard). An injury such as KS must, surely, result in some muscle tightening and abnormality? Yet none was detected?

I just don't understand?

What is it, exactly, you all see in them?
 
Completely agree!! Waste of money. I get my vet to check my girl's back every time she has her boosters done. Coming to think of it, I have a friend who used to swear by the 'back person' before they became 'fashionable'. She paid through the nose to have regular sessions because she was told that her horse was showing signs of discomfort through her 'back being out'. Hundreds of pounds later, and years later, when sense prevailed and the vet was asked to look further into it, bone spavin was diagnosed.
 
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Reg's physio is also a qualified vet who doesn't hesitate to recommend calling for scans and the likes if he feels the treatment/ diagnosis is beyond his bounds. He is genuinely fantastic and has really helped Reg- he had problems stemming from a fall in his racing days which affected his neck. Now, he is absolutely straight and only needs 6 monthly routine checks unless Al feels he goes wonky which is increasingly rare.

There are a lot of less impressive people about though.
 
Let me get it straight, I've no problem with vet recommended qualified physios for rehab after an op. What I'm on about, are these freely available and heavily sought after "back people", who can pronounce a KS horse absolutely sound, leading the owner to attempt to ride them through real pain issues? How can a KS horse have a soundly and correctly muscled back???
 
Would also love to know what their qualifications are, what they mean, and where and how they got them. Cos I don't buy it. I can feel whether a horse is right or not under saddle. If it isn't moving right, look at saddle and legs. Where does the "back person" come in? They seem so relied upon now. It concerns me.
 
Moomince Pie said:
Completely agree!! Waste of money. I get my vet to check my girl's back every time she has her boosters done. Coming to think of it, I have a friend who used to swear by the 'back person' before they became 'fashionable'. She paid through the nose to have regular sessions because she was told that her horse was showing signs of discomfort through her 'back being out'. Hundreds of pounds later, and years later, when sense prevailed and the vet was asked to look further into it, bone spavin was diagnosed.
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EXACTLY what I mean. How many horses suffer on, under the "back person", when what they truly require is a vet?
 
It's all the conning lingo that gets me - ie 'the back's out'. WTF are they on about exactly?! Someone actually said to me once that the back person had said the spine was misaligned and that they would need regular sessions to put it right! The mind boggles. Are they serious?!!!!:eek:
 
I use a Chiro! Fully qualified person who is amazing. There is nothing wrong with my horses backs and often she won't treat one or two of there really is nothin there. Sometimes they may have a little niggle. Much like us!! I see a Chiro for myself why not for my horses! I expect them to carry me so I accept the regular treatments they get as part of my duty of care to them. I get my Chiro out regularly whether or not there are any problems, usually not. But horses do run and jump and play and you honestly think that they should only get treatment after an operation? One of my boys had a sore neck last time, best we can work out was from playing silly ******s.
 
From my (have to add, unqualified) point of view, the spine becomes misaligned when the muscles that support it become out of balance, so if one side is weaker, the spine is pulled towards the stronger side. So a Physio would have to realign the bones, but the hard work is building the weaker muscles up to keep them in place - the success of their work should be measured on this rather than whether they can keep cracking bones in and out of place...!

I had to have regular Physio myself after a riding injury that meant my spine and associated ribs were out of place and the muscles had grown to acommodate this - I felt amazing after my weekly session but they quickly slipped back to their old ways if I didn't do my exercises. Its not back to 'normal' even now but I would still use a Physio for my horse to make them comfortable, as long as they consider muscles, not just bones.
 
I have a physio that I've known for years, used to work on the horses at the yard I worked at, has done my previous horse (once, because that was all he needed), and my current one after he strained a muscle. He's a great guy, has no problems saying 'get the vet out' if he feels it's something not muscle related, and the results have spoken for themselves. He's gone through a lot of training as a sports physiotherapist - human and equine. Haven't had much experience with any others, but a friend did get an 'animal communicator' who also did backs to have a look at hers, and they were all fine. Did think that one a bit odd.
 
Y back lady is also my saddle fitter, she doesn't charge the earth.

I have her out if horse feels off, she doesn't say that pelvis is out each time. Last time she saw lami his atlas was rotated and that was it. And I could feel that in the riding as he wanted to look to the outside all the time.

My back lady always asked vets permission to come out.
 
I am sure there are some who will create imaginary problems in order to get re-visits and make more cash, however I do have my horse seen by a 'back person'.
She looks at him trotting up/ being ridden/ lunged, and then works on some of his muscles such as his shoulders or his neck aswell as his back. She only comes to see my boy every so often when I feel he is having specific difficulty, or is feeling a bit stiff, and she can usually pick up on what I think is sore without me having to point it out, which is great because then I know she is not making it up. She doesn't ever try to book in to see him again afterwards, and I always text her approx a week later to let her know how he's got on, and whether its made a difference.

I am quite happy to give him a gentle massage every so often in the interim but as she has more knowledge of the muscles I would rather ask her to come out than risk doing something that could hurt him myself. She has come out a couple of times and said hes a little stiff but nothing more than everyone else and there isn't anything wrong at all!
 
We use an equine physio who works with our vet and I have complete faith in her. A few years ago I won a raffle prize which was a voucher with a "back" person and thought I'd give her a try. She didn't really take much history but after a bit of pulling and pushing declared Murphy's pelvis was "out" and then proceeded to put it back in! I was slightly cynical as this has never been mentioned before by the physio but as I had no intention of having the back lady again didn't bother too much. I have since heard from people locally and from posts on here that it seems every horse/pony this person sees has its pelvis out, what a good job she is around to rectify all the problems eh.:rolleyes:
 
good and bad of every profession....

pelvis out is just terminology in general use, I think it is to make it more understandable to the layman but agree it doesn't help. Pelvises can certainly look wonky due to tense musculator though having seen it in my own.

I have a chiro who does me and the horse in the same session, much better to start of everyone straight again :). She is always happy to declare if there is nothing wrong with them either.
 
I don't want to nit pick but up to 70% of horses in some studies have been found to have KS to some degree. And that's in the control group. So these were horses which had no symptoms whatsoever of having a back problem.

Loads of horses function completely normally with the condition so unless the horse was exhibiting some kind of symptom why would the back person find anything? There may well have been nothing to find in terms of muscle tightness etc.


I love my ACPAT physio (recommended by the vet) and wouldn't let just any old unqualified person do my horses FWIW but I just wanted to point out that your eg of a KS horse may not be the most fair and infact it is perfectly possible (or so it would seem from some studies) for the horse to have nothing to see at all externally and no issues whatsoever from the impinging vertebrae.
 
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I've used a McTimoney chiropractor, but not to replace a vet. I've had marvellous results - every horse I have had treated has loved it and afterwards I have seen improvements in their way of going.
 
I would have to disagree, to a certain extent. I certainly think that it seems to be everyone's answer to any issue with their horse 'oh let's get the back person out', however we were sent a horse a couple of years ago that kept 'breaking' when racing and cantering instead of pacing. He did it race after race until his owner got fed up and moved to our yard.

The first thing my boss did was take him to the back man. It turned out his pelvis was completely out (even I could see it, he was completely wonky). The guy did his stuff and sent us on our way. The horse never broke again whilst racing.
 
I think they are useful for general aches and pains, but not really worth the money IMO. My own horse was looked at and worked on by a sports physio and mctimmony chiro. Both said his back was really good and strong. He was later found to have kissing spine in ten places. Having sid that, the vet missed it too. I had to insist on xrays as I suspected the condition. Vet said it was highly unlikely!
 
Alphamare said:
You see an osteo yourself regularly but can't extend the principle to your horse? I struggle to understand that tbh!
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Absolutely agree with this. Anyone you use should be qualified. KS can only be diagnosed via xray.

I have always had my horses backs done by qualified people and have been happy with the results (barring one person).

Last year, I pulled a muscle during training to join the RAF. I had been meaning to go to a physio/chiro type for ages to get myself checked out. If I had done this, there would have been a good chance they would have spotted what was wrong with me (slight conformational fault)... and given me the advise I now know. Since injury I have regularly been going to a physio who does sports massage, and the difference in my body is almost unbelievable. I shouldnt have been so stupid and gone to see one. I believe the same applies for your horse.
 
see for me it is worth the money, I think it is £30 for him, 2-4 times a year and it helps keep him more flexible in his old age and helps the dressage :)
 
I think this is a minefield. The whole complimentary treatment issue needs regulating, it is being reviewed and restructured at the moment, but with no where near enough rigour IMO.

I know of 3 horses who have had bad outcomes following interference & diagnosis by 'back people'. One was v nearly PTS for no reason.

McTimony have a lot to answer for, allowing people to qualify as Therapists and Manipulators. They tend to market themseles as back people, and the horse world is awash with owners who think they are using a physio or a chiropractor, when the manipulator is nothing of the sort.

Vets don't always help, I've met some who don't know the difference. they need to be far more vocal about horses being diagnosed and treated by unqualified people, (be it back people or podiatrists etc.)
 
Just to add, I use qualified people as appropriate, and think they are great. We do need to be aware as owners though about what they can and can't do.

The whole KS thing is fascinating. If potentially it is often caused by ligaments being inflexible and is a modern phenomenon, then the implications for the management of young stock in particular will be very interesting. Friends in the 'know' think it may be directly linked to horses stabled or barn kept as youngstock and getting far too much protein.
 
Wether it's in Human or Animal treatment you will always get 'quacks' who climb on the band wagon & give 'treatment' to people/horses & have no idea about wjhat they are doing.

To blanket say 'back people' do more harm than good or that they are a waste of money is ill informed. You would go for physiotherapy if you needed it wouldn't you? so why wouldn't you allow your horse to physiotherapy if they needed it?

I have 2 showjumpers & I have their backs checked every 6 months as a matter of course as part of their health regime or if I feel there is a problem. Our 'back person' is a fully qualified human physio therapist who then studied & qualified as an animal physio & is ACPAT registered. She works along side our veterinary practice & together they keep the horses well. She has a full history of the horses, any injuries & any treatment given. As for payment, it depends what she has to do. There are times when she has checked them over & has found they are fine so I just pay an attendance fee, on other occasions the horses require more therapy & so it costs a little more. She normally asks things about the way the horses are going & are we finding some particular movement is difficult on a particular rein. Invariable she is right & will explain why this is happening & what she has found & more to the point how she can rectify.

Equine Physios definately have a part to play in the fitness & treatment of horses providing you have a proper one & not one of the numerous charlotens there are about. ;)
 
I use a scacrio cranial therapist who work with muscles and soft tissue have always had the results I expected and never been disappointed. It's defiantly worth a go.
 
noobs31 said:
"Back people" are a new phenomenon to me, I started out in a most basic environment. But after a move down South and the entirely new experience which is the livery yard, they seem to be prolific. Now don't get me wrong, after a particularly nasty fall I've used an osteopath for years to keep me riding and working. However, I've moved yards a few times already, yet the "back person" is always present. Personally I've no desire to ever involve one, because from what I've seen so far, his/her "pelvis is out" every time. And I firmly believe, if this were true, the animal would not walk. Yet it does.

So these were my suspicions. But today a horse on my yard, pronounced fine by a "back person", was diagnosed with kissing spine. Ok so they don't have x-ray eyes (despite their ability to proclaim where a pelvis is). But what I would expect them to have, is the ability to identify tight muscle (which is not hard). An injury such as KS must, surely, result in some muscle tightening and abnormality? Yet none was detected?

I just don't understand?

What is it, exactly, you all see in them?
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Disagree with this, There are some amazing back massage people
Pennie Hooper is amazing.

Massage not only releases tight muscles, the well being horses / humans get from massage it helps lymphatic system and circulation too. Like osteopaths if you find a good one they are worth their weight in gold.

Pennie I cannot recommend highly enough
https://www.facebook.com/penniehooperequinesportsmassase
 
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I don't have a problem with properly qualified physios or 'back people' who work on vet recommendations. And tbh, provided they do no harm, even if someone is completely wasting their money, if it makes them happy, fine by me. What I don't like is the pressure & conning of inexperienced/desperate/gullible owners. I've been on plenty of diy yards where novice owners were made to feel guilty because they didn't have random quack 'back man' to do regular checks on their perfectly healthy & happy horses. That annoys me.
 
Well I am a bit sceptical about it all, but took me and the "back person" nearly a year to convince my veterinary practice there was anything wrong with my mare, despite obvious tension in her back that wouldn't go away. Turned out she had arthritis in her facet joints, 7 kissing spines and a sacroiliac injury. I believe they have their place among other professionals
 
noobs31 said:
Now don't get me wrong, after a particularly nasty fall I've used an osteopath for years to keep me riding and working.
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Erm, I see a bit of a conflict here. Osteos are good for you but a waste of space for horses... :confused:
I'm sure there are good ones, great ones and not so good ones though. I also don't know what to think about about having a yard Osteopath.

If you are concerned about their qualification ask for confirmation. All Osteopaths should be registered I believe.
 
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amandap said:
Erm, I see a bit of a conflict here. Osteos are good for you but a waste of space for horses... :confused:
I'm sure there are good ones, great ones and not so good ones though. I also don't know what to think about about having a yard Osteopath.

If you are concerned about their qualification ask for confirmation. All Osteopaths should be registered I believe.
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^^^^ If they are a genuine Osteo then they will be qualified and have the documentation to verify that.
Best thing all round is to ask your vet who THEY would recommend.
 
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