Am I alone in believing "back people" do more harm than good?

I think there are pro's and con's of a back person, and I do agree that a lot of the time it is more of a fashion thing getting one out to look at your horses back, than it is a necessity (sp?).

I myself, see an Oeseopath every 3 months due to a cuvred spine (nothing severe, but enough to cause discomfort, so having nothing against horses having the same treatment). As horses weren't really built as such to carry a person, and saddle, when they do, I would think this could put a horse "back out of alignment" and there fore require some treatment, but then, if the saddle fitted correctly, and the rider rode with balance, then technically the back shouldn't have this sort of issue?

If a horse's back becomes out of line, then I would be asking WHY has it?!
 
Here's my problem with certain back people and the people that use them. No common sense and it seems to have replaced the vet in terms of why they're used. As in doesn't feel right so I'm getting my back guy. Back guy says this and that and next you know you're seeing back guy once a week or twice monthly and it's better for a short time but not being sorted properly. And you're spending more money than a vet call out.

Having said that I will use them on occasion especially when my mare is competing. In conjunction with proper vet work if things aren't right. But after my first appointment for Abba I asked if I should make an appointment for next month. He said really you should not have to see me before 3 months and if she has problems before then you need your vet first. Good ones are beneficial to keeping a working horse well working to a point. He also said make sure she gets plenty of time out too for her to roll and move about. So yeah he gets my vote.

But I won't bore you with the outrageous stories of things I hear and see with my own eyes. I'm around a specialist as I have no choice. A horse that gets ridden 5 times a year for 10 mins should not have as many maladies as are present with one horse. But look it I'll just keep my mouth shut on that one.

Terri
 
I have never had a bad experience, over the years, either for myself( osteo, chiropractor, physic,) or horses.
I have used a back man (many years ago, who wasn't qualified, and the vet didn't have facilities to improve or locate anything). Horse breathed a big sigh of relief and began eating normally immediately.
I now use an osteopath,who also does massage and is qualified. I love seeing my oldie behaving like a youngster again in the field the day after she has visited. I can see improved stride and movement and general wellbeing
I have no doubt that my horses benefit, so don't see a problem :)
 
I'm a qualified equine massage therapist, although don't work at it full time. Legally I cannot diagnose or 'treat' anything. Seriously, I can't even say 'your horse has a splint' when I am being paid as an EMT. I only ever work with the OK from the vet, anyone who does not is breaking the law and their insurance, if they have any, invalidated. Most of my 'client's' (ie the horses) work hard and enjoy a massage and it does have some benefits.



Back people/manipulators have been around forever-well, since I starting working with horses in the 80s anyway. Horses that have ongoing back issues often have undiagnosed lower leg lameness/foot issues and if when I take a history that includes that, then its talked through with the owner and vet and recommend a lameness work up.
 
My horses see an ACPAT physio regularily she works closely wirh my vet and it's very very helpful.
I also use a body worker now and again and the horses enjoy that but I would dream of calling anyone except the physio ( if I suspected a muscle issue ) or the vet if a horse was not right .
I hear and have seen various types of ' back people ' working on horses who look clearly to me to carrying issues ( spavins and the like ) that need veterinary imput this is the fault of the owners for not educating themselves better and of these back people or whatever you want to call them who take their money .
I love the pelvis out comment I always want to say where's it gone will it be back soon.
Yes I think these people can do serious damage but the real person doing the damage are badly educated owners.
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
Here's my problem with certain back
But I won't bore you with the outrageous stories of things I hear and see with my own eyes. I'm around a specialist as I have no choice. A horse that gets ridden 5 times a year for 10 mins should not have as many maladies as are present with one horse. But look it I'll just keep my mouth shut on that one.

Terri
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I slightly disagree. A horse that is not ridden regularly might not have the correct supportive muscle to carry a rider and might be more prone to injury.

A regularly worked horse should have good back muscle, good topline, and be conditioned for work.

I can see how a horse not worked regularly and consistently might be more inclined to muscle soreness and injury. Though rather than more treatment I guess the underlying cause needs addressing.

For my horses I use a mixture of therapists.

My vet is a qualified physio, and is very good at big picture stuff, but very expensive. His treatment (if there is a problem to be fixed) has made significant visible changes and improvements to my horses. He wouldn’t be my first port of call for minor things. If he is out for something else or routine vaccinations, I always ask him to check horse over for need for treatment.

I have used a range of qualified physios on vet referral and my experiences have been mixed. Some seem very keen on the H wave machine and not much else.

I have also used chiropractors with mixed results. I stopped when I had a chiropractor 5 days earlier for a suspected problem. They didn’t find it. Above vet out for same issue (was thinking lameness problem) found a large muscle spasm in horses mid back (but about 10 inches below spine – so missed by chiro). Vet treated muscle spasm.

I currently use two massage therapists that are both very good. One is also a chiropractor and a part qualified physio. I mainly use them to look for tight or sore muscles and to work on them, as a routine maintenance for my horses. Both horses clearly benefit from the treatment. It is also a flag if there are any new or different sore or tight areas. Is a flag that there might be something else addressing.
 
I am certain that qualified physio people who work with horses are often excellent - but over the years I have seen things that were clearly cons for the gullible. When I was a teen at the local livery yard (18 ish years ago) There was this woman who "did backs" - she went into the horses stable with a small tap hammer- always alone - shut the top door tapped the horses back a bit with the hammer (I know I peeked in) and gave you a bottle of small green pills to dose your horse with. Oh and a bill for £20 or whatever. Most of the yard used this person but it must have been nonsense!
 
Going back to the op, is any "harm" done to the pocket rather than the horse though? Or are horses actually harmed by some disreputable ones?
 
amandap said:
Going back to the op, is any "harm" done to the pocket rather than the horse though? Or are horses actually harmed by some disreputable ones?
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Yes they an be harmed for instance I horse I know was treated a year by one of these people when it clearly was lame behind it looked like spavins behaved like it had spavins and eventually the vet got called and yes you have it had spavins a year working with spavins that might have had a better chance of being helped if it had seen the vet at once it ended up PTS.
 
amandap said:
I see Goldenstar. This is why the vet must be involved first (for a diagnosis) and in review.
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Exactly only a vet can diagnose , my old boy got an arthritic spine in old age the ACPAT physio came on a regular visit said straight away you need the vet somethings not right rang the vet while she was on the yard horse was seen that day x-rayed the next the problem diagnosed the only thing we had noticed at that stage was he was a bit flat when pulling the carriage which he normally loved.
 
I do use a physio on my WB. I know the horse is fit, sound and healthy and he is in a lot of varied work. He has twice yearly physio, along with twice yearly saddle checks, etc. The physio does find tight spots and by doing specific exercises or massages to release these I am convinced it does improve his way of going.

HOWEVER... I would now never use a physio if I thought a horse had a more serious issue, unless the horse had been prescribed a specific course of physio treatment from a vet.... My TB had what my instructor called 'behavioural issues', bucking a lot, napping and reluctance to soften and work through his back. I had a vet check him over on a routine visit, and they couldn't see anything significantly wrong, as he was sound and did not react upon palpation. I then had a physio and a neuro-muscular therapist to him, who both told me different things along the lines of he was tense, and the physio hired me a tens machine. The physio stretches and exercises, seemed to aggravate and cause my horse more pain, because the most violent and dangerous behaviour he displayed was during and after the physio had seen him. So I then booked him into my vets for a full poor performance assessment, which included full x rays and we discovered that my horse had severe Kissing Spine.
None of the 'experts' suspected KS before I arranged for these xrays.
 
In an ideal world all the professionals seeing your horse work together as a team.

You, your yard owner, your physio, your massage person, your vet, your saddler, your farrier all know what is normal for your horse. Any one might flag up a problem and suggest that one of the other professionals should be involved. Everyone has the horse's best interest at heart, and everyone works together.

I think with a bit of work this is achievable, and makes such a difference.

Good physios / chiros / osteos / massage people see nothing wrong in flagging a problem and suggesting getting the saddler or vet out to take a look. This is one of the values of good back people IMO an independent view on your horse.
 
To be honest, I love my back lady! She's very knowledgeable not just about backs but about the whole anatomy & physiology, she works very closely with my vet and if she isn't happy she won't treat until the vet has checked things out first. Normally get her out every 6-12 months but don't hesitate to ring her sooner if there's a problem. She worked wonders for my old boy who was seen (practically weekly!) by the vets who found a myriad of problems, most of which they could do little about, but with some co-operation between us all we managed to get him sound enough to at least hack out which was something that had eluded us for quite some time! Most of the time it's a quick check over, watch the horses work (usually on the lunge) and if she feels there is something that needs doing she does it, then gives me some exercises to work on specific to the problem. She also advises on general stretching and exercises as and when needed. And if she doesn't need to do anything she doesn't - we have a cuppa and a chat and she tells me to keep up the good work and off she goes! I do appreciate that there are plenty of charlatans out there but please don't tar them all with the same brush, the lady that comes to do my troop is a fully qualified human physiotherapist who then undertook additional training to apply her skills to animals and yet more training to specialise in horses.
 
Well happy with mine (Mctimoney) and she does me as well. She checks my youngster every 6 months, in line with the saddle checks. Invariably he is a little stiff in certain areas as his work load changes and I find her advice good. Vet is aware of her work but she would not be my first port of call if I suspected a real issue. Her role is preventative or to help recuperation.

She made a massive difference to me but feel under no pressure or obligation at the yard to use her.
 
corbleu said:
To be honest, I love my back lady! She's very knowledgeable not just about backs but about the whole anatomy & physiology, she works very closely with my vet and if she isn't happy she won't treat until the vet has checked things out first. Normally get her out every 6-12 months but don't hesitate to ring her sooner if there's a problem. She worked wonders for my old boy who was seen (practically weekly!) by the vets who found a myriad of problems, most of which they could do little about, but with some co-operation between us all we managed to get him sound enough to at least hack out which was something that had eluded us for quite some time! Most of the time it's a quick check over, watch the horses work (usually on the lunge) and if she feels there is something that needs doing she does it, then gives me some exercises to work on specific to the problem. She also advises on general stretching and exercises as and when needed. And if she doesn't need to do anything she doesn't - we have a cuppa and a chat and she tells me to keep up the good work and off she goes! I do appreciate that there are plenty of charlatans out there but please don't tar them all with the same brush, the lady that comes to do my troop is a fully qualified human physiotherapist who then undertook additional training to apply her skills to animals and yet more training to specialise in horses.
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This ladys training is at a completly different level to many taking money from people it was a physio qualified down this route who picked my boys KS to often owners don't understand the differences in people working in this field and lump them all together .
 
bouncing_ball said:
In an ideal world all the professionals seeing your horse work together as a team.

You, your yard owner, your physio, your massage person, your vet, your saddler, your farrier all know what is normal for your horse. Any one might flag up a problem and suggest that one of the other professionals should be involved. Everyone has the horse's best interest at heart, and everyone works together.

I think with a bit of work this is achievable, and makes such a difference.

Good physios / chiros / osteos / massage people see nothing wrong in flagging a problem and suggesting getting the saddler or vet out to take a look. This is one of the values of good back people IMO an independent view on your horse.
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^^^ this

and its up to owners to get a clue-wrt the law, checking credentials, insurance etc etc
 
Broadly speaking, there seem to be two types of horse owner, those that regularly use a team of qualified experts, vet, physio, saddler, farrier and EDT.
And the second group, who's attitude is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I bought a horse that belonged to the second kind of owner who superficially seemed fine. She wasn't. Feet were unbalanced, had muscle wastage from an ill fitting saddle, oedema on her rump, sores from sharp teeth and was difficult to maintain weight. Psychologically, her head was in another zone, but she had a work ethic and continued to perform.
Good horse care is treating the horse as a whole, not just a back or feet etc. Having a prophylactic approach to maintain health rather than waiting for problems to occur and then dealing with it.

I use either a physio or McTimoney practitioner, both highly regarded by local vets who refer them because they are experts in their field. Vets are general practitioners and mine would laise with 'back' people, EDT's and farriers respecting their expertise.
 
"The back man/lady" has been around for many years, (at least since the '80's), and I have worked for people who had them out regularly. Never had much time for them (if the horse is sore or tight I can pick that up myself), and really lost any credibility with me when a "back man" came to put a mare's pelvis "in" and pronounced her "cured". After there was no improvement in her way of going and she was obviously not right, an X-ray revealed that she had a fractured pelvis - how come the back man didn't spot that?
 
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