Am I being cruel?

[SmallPony]

I have a 3 year old Connemara who wintered out [edited to add - not with me - he was in Ireland and came over in March] and to be honest did look a bit like a gangly hat rack coming in to spring. I think there may have been some judgement for not rugging or feeding him [edited to add: when he arrived!] (and I questioned myself at points) but now on 6 weeks of very good summer grazing he looks gorgeous and if anything is now on the fat side and have to press to feel ribs! He's just been moved onto another ungrazed paddock with waist high grass and I expect will gain further weight.

Grooms at the yard say he looks good, isn't fat and I don't need to worry about weight management... and ok he isn't currently obese but having another lami risk native pony I am always worried so am going to ask about strip grazing if he gets much bigger than he is now (he lives out 24/7, yard owner doesnt allow muzzles for safety reasons). I don't think anyone else thinks he is a lami risk as he's only 3 and pure connie not a chunky cob type... I know lami is more common in older ponies but I didn't think youngsters were immune?

My plan will be to turn him away for the winter again, leave naked, not feed, and let the weight come off him so he has room to gain again next spring, but is this cruel? I just want to do the best for him!

 

[blitznbobs]

They are not immune but for a geowing youngster, ad lib forage should be the norm unless vet advice to the contrary… it takes a lot of calories to grow. Also i would be concerned that he doesnt have the right nutrients if on restricted grazing and no balancer / suppliment fed

 

[Pinkvboots]

If his looking like a hat rack at the end of winter I would say that is cruel his obviously cold and hungry poor sod.

 

[Trouper]

If you're concerned, I would discuss his diet with your vet about what he needs at his age and get an informed opinion.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Hat rack toast rack?

If I were you I would be consciously not making the same mistakes this winter. Sounds like the pony was hungry and that does not do anything for a growing pony.

 

[SmallPony]

If his looking like a hat rack at the end of winter I would say that is cruel his obviously cold and hungry poor sod.

I should probably clarify and edit original post - he had wintered out in Ireland not with me, and came to me skinny - I didn't start rugging/feeding when he arrived in the spring because it was just waiting for the weather to go onto the summer fields. My yard has very good grass!

 

[SDMabel]

There is nothing wrong in my opinion with letting any horse that holds it weight well- winter out rugless, however I would feed even a good doer ( for example my fat lives on fresh air cob gets a fibre speedi-soak with all her vit & Min suppliments) as there really isn't much in the grass at that time of year.

It's really hard to say without seeing the grazing or the pony, If he does look like a 'hat rack' which to me means severely underweight then yes IMO it's cruel to expect him to winter out without a bit of help.

As others have said, consult your vet and feed specialists for what would be best for a growing youngster.

I'm also hyper wary of lami (again due to a good-doing cob) so would be very careful with grazing managment too.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I should probably clarify - he had wintered out in Ireland not with me, and came to me skinny - I didn't start rugging/feeding when he arrived in the spring because it was just waiting for the weather to go onto the summer fields. My yard has very good grass!

Thats not what you said in your original post you said you questioned if you were doing the right thing by not feeding and rugging!

Get you facts right before you blatantly lie.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would expect a native youngster to be able to winter out with decent shelter and supplementary hay. As for summer, they do need a lot of calories to grow but I wouldn't want him on lush, fertilised grass.

 

[Red-1]

I don't see anything wrong in planning to turn away with no rugs, as long as he has shelter and pals in the field with him. He will need extra hay/haylage if he lost weight last year, it obviously wasn't enough for him. I would also give a once a day speedybeet/chop meal so I could add some vitamins. That could be increased if he starts to lose weight.

If you can feel no ribs, I would be concerned about unrestricted grazing on waist high grass.

ETA- X posted with PAS, who is of the same view!

 

[Clodagh]

Thats not what you said in your original post you said you questioned if you were doing the right thing by not feeding and rugging!

Get you facts right before you blatantly lie.

Unless you know OP you are sounding awful aggressive! No harm in a native looking poor coming out of winter. I wouldn’t have rugged and fed hard food either. Slow weight gain is best.
I would feed a supplement though.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Unless you know OP you are sounding awful aggressive! No harm in a native looking poor coming out of winter. I wouldn’t have rugged and fed hard food either. Slow weight gain is best.
I would feed a supplement though.

Thats all fine I don't have a problem with not rugging and feeding have done it my self but if a 3 year old is looking like a hat rack after being left out all winter with nothing that I do have a problem with sorry but I think its unnecessary.

 

[cauda equina]

Youngsters are definitely not immune to laminitis!
My good weight, still growing 3yo got laminitis; the 2 older, one of them overweight horses he was turned out with were fine

 

[equinerebel]

It really depends on the horse and what you mean by "hat rack". If he looks like he needs a feed and a rug, do that. If he doesn't, closely monitor him in case it changes. A lot can happen between now and then, especially with a youngster.

 

[Goldie's mum]

My plan will be to turn him away for the winter again, leave naked, not feed, and let the weight come off him so he has room to gain again next spring, but is this cruel? I just want to do the best for him!

I wouldn't let him get huge, with a view to starving him later. Similarly, "A winter" isn't one solid thing that you decide about & then see what happened afterwards. You'll be seeing him every day & can adjust his feeding as you go along.

Here the semi-feral natives come down onto the crofts at 1 year old to 3 years, for handling and to stay away from their dad. We never rug them but they have natural shelter and a small amount of feed (mainly to teach them approaching people is a good idea). We move them to barer or longer grass depending how they look , so they stay about the same body condition all year round but they never go onto fertilized "cow pasture".

If yours is on a yard with mostly adult horses you might do better for him by finding a specialist young-stock livery so he is with others that have the same dietary needs (and someone to play with).

 

[Abacus]

I think the OP is asking if she should let him winter out next year, unrugged and not fed, assuming he goes into winter in good condition.

I would assess at the time and continue to do so. If the weather is particularly vile and he doesn’t have shelter I would pop on a rug for comfort and ensure ad-lib forage/hay, but I would add a balancer for nutrients. There’s nothing wrong with a horse gaining some weight in summer and losing some in winter as long as he’s not starving and cold. But as others have said he will be growing and you don’t want to deprive him.

 

[Dexter]

The comments on here are why there are so many fat horses. a 3yr old native doesn't need rugging over winter unless there's a medical complication.

 

[SmallPony]

I think the OP is asking if she should let him winter out next year, unrugged and not fed, assuming he goes into winter in good condition.

I would assess at the time and continue to do so. If the weather is particularly vile and he doesn’t have shelter I would pop on a rug for comfort and ensure ad-lib forage/hay, but I would add a balancer for nutrients. There’s nothing wrong with a horse gaining some weight in summer and losing some in winter as long as he’s not starving and cold. But as others have said he will be growing and you don’t want to deprive him.

This - thank you - you've phrased it better than me!

I was looking for people's experiences with youngsters weight management/ lami risk/ growth to try and optimise and plan ahead for him, and if letting their weight fluctuate seasonally is advisable or not especially at his age.

He was probably a 3.5-4 out of 9 on the body condition score by the end of winter grazing as the move to summer fields kept getting pushed back - when he arrived my mindset was that in a few weeks he'll go onto summer grazing and gain but had continued to loose a bit by the time it eventually came round. Now he's at least a 6 and definitely will be going into winter well covered.

If he becomes thin again over the winter I obviously will manage that (and he will have shelter and hay) so I was asking more about will letting him lose extra weight weight "naturally" is too harsh, and also how wary I should be about summer gains!

 

[SmallPony]

Youngsters are definitely not immune to laminitis!
My good weight, still growing 3yo got laminitis; the 2 older, one of them overweight horses he was turned out with were fine

This is useful to know! Was there an underlying cause found as to why they got it and not the other?

 

[Bellaboo18]

No one can answer the question because we don't know what this winter will be like.
Unfortunately we have to assess constantly. It sounds like he needed extra help last year.
I think we should use winters to help good doers but I also don't like them having a life of feast or famine.

 

[Bellaboo18]

This - thank you - you've phrased it better than me!

I was looking for people's experiences with youngsters weight management/ lami risk/ growth to try and optimise and plan ahead for him, and if letting their weight fluctuate seasonally is advisable or not especially at his age.

He was probably a 3.5-4 out of 9 on the body condition score by the end of winter grazing as the move to summer fields kept getting pushed back - when he arrived my mindset was that in a few weeks he'll go onto summer grazing and gain but had continued to loose a bit by the time it eventually came round. Now he's at least a 6 and definitely will be going into winter well covered.

If he becomes thin again over the winter I obviously will manage that (and he will have shelter and hay) so I was asking more about will letting him lose extra weight weight "naturally" is too harsh, and also how wary I should be about summer gains!

I wouldn't plan like this. Yes youngsters need plenty of good quality forage but I wouldn't let him keep gaining and gaining in the hope he can starve it off over winter. He still needs plenty of roughage in his system over winter.
I'd look for a happier middle ground myself.

 

[Tiddlypom]

A 3.5-4.0/9.0 isn't a hat rack, but a 6.0/9.0 is defo a bit porky, and you don't want a porky youngster, so he could do with losing a bit now, and certainly not to put any more condition on.

 

[Pinkvboots]

The comments on here are why there are so many fat horses. a 3yr old native doesn't need rugging over winter unless there's a medical complication.

I agree but some may need some sort of food like hay.

 

[cauda equina]

This is useful to know! Was there an underlying cause found as to why they got it and not the other?

He wasn't tested
I asked the vet about doing so and they said there was no point as it wouldn't affect his management
With hindsight I wish I had insisted, although he's fine now but does need micromanaging when the grass is growing

 

[SEL]

I used to let my Ardennes drop a lot over winter knowing full well that a decent spring and he'd pile it on. The winter he was in overnight and on good hay was the first Spring where he looked uncomfortable on his feet for a day and I had to get the electric fencing out. I did rug him in the rain but that's because he hated it, was getting old and I'm soft!!

I'd actually be managing a porky 3yo now but I certainly wouldn't be planning to rug and feed in winter unless they actually need it. If there are days of heavy rain then a 50g rug is helpful just to keep their backs dry but winter is there to help natives shift blubber.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Youngsters are definitely not immune to laminitis!
My good weight, still growing 3yo got laminitis; the 2 older, one of them overweight horses he was turned out with were fine

They definitely aren't immune to laminitis. I went with a friend to look at a 3 yr old Dartmoor filly at a well known stud. We were both unhappy about her feet but just assumed they needed trimming as we thought she was too young to have had laminitis so my friend bought her. Her farrier confirmed she had had laminitis. She lost her a year later to the most severe laminitis I have ever seen. Such a shame as she was a lovely pony.

 

[Cortez]

One man/woman's hat rack is another man/woman's gangly, growing youngster. I always like to see a rib on anything under three, and a fat horse of any age is a travesty. It is far, far better for a young horse to be a bit light and completely normal for unbroken horses to be unfurnished. I am always astonished at the shear size of horses in the UK; the average horse is enormous.

OP, your Connemara will be absolutely fine wintering out unrugged, and if he is now fat then you should take steps to keep him off over-rich pasture until he is back to a reasonable weight. Be very, very careful; Connemaras are generally good doers and weight is cumulative, which is why older ponies are more prone to laminitis.

 

[Goldenstar]

Young horses are growing they will at times outgrow the calories they are taking in .
At three is disastrous to allow your horse to be fat .
You need to control his weight now not in the winter that’s too late too fat horses when young get weak joints you need to have them ideally looking a little lean .

 

[dorsetladette]

Horses naturally gain through the spring/summer months and the drop off in the autumn winter. Some more dramatically than others. Youngsters grow constantly, my 3yr old currently looks fat, but 2 weeks ago he looked obese and I was very worried. He is still growing, and he will take up most of those calories in doing so, but there is still a risk of lami and the extra weight on those growing joints. So there needs to be a happy meduim - youngsters need to be out and moving, but also need to be happy and healthy.

Could your yard manager have your boy in for a few hours in the day to reduce his access to grass? this would also give him a bit of restbite from the flies too. If the yard manager isn't willing to work with you to manage your horses needs it might by time to look for somewhere that will.

 

[Esmae]

One man/woman's hat rack is another man/woman's gangly, growing youngster. I always like to see a rib on anything under three, and a fat horse of any age is a travesty. It is far, far better for a young horse to be a bit light and completely normal for unbroken horses to be unfurnished. I am always astonished at the shear size of horses in the UK; the average horse is enormous.

OP, your Connemara will be absolutely fine wintering out unrugged, and if he is now fat then you should take steps to keep him off over-rich pasture until he is back to a reasonable weight. Be very, very careful; Connemaras are generally good doers and weight is cumulative, which is why older ponies are more prone to laminitis.

Excellent excellent advice.