Am I being cruel?

[tristar]

i would take control NOW

i hate the fatter thinner thing, maintaining a steady weight is the healthy way to go, plus you could teach him to lunge and do in hand hacking prep.

connies are not bred to eat cultivated grass, the ones i see are OBESE, ii would invest in some electric fencing and allow him enough fibre to fill his guts, and add some vits and mins


if he came from ireland i would have a worm egg count done

swinging from thin to fat could affect his metabolism, and when you get to the saddles fit part not helpful

when it comes to winter i rug everything and provide access to shelter, for the long term health and developing constitution, it does the feet no good being constantly wet and comfort to lie down is only humane

you could expect your pony to serve you well for many long years if you seize the day now and up your game

 

[stangs]

i hate the fatter thinner thing, maintaining a steady weight is the healthy way to go, plus you could teach him to lunge and do in hand hacking prep.

Obviously, OP shouldn’t let him get very fat or thin, but seasonal fluctuations are good for the metabolism. Animals evolved to have lower weight in winter and more weight in summer.

And I wouldn’t be lunging a 3yo if I could help it.

 

[tristar]

Obviously, OP shouldn’t let him get very fat or thin, but seasonal fluctuations are good for the metabolism. Animals evolved to have lower weight in winter and more weight in summer.

And I wouldn’t be lunging a 3yo if I could help it.

this is a pony in domestic environment

my horses maintain the same weight all year, i make sure they do, except for a few weeks in the spring then back to normal



if you would re read , i said TEACH HIM TO LUNGE, that is different from working him on the lunge

 

[cauda equina]

How do you teach a pony to lunge without lunging it?

 

[Escapade]

Young horses are growing they will at times outgrow the calories they are taking in .

And on top of this burning calories balancing himself on the truck, sometimes they walk off light and it takes a bit of time to catch up.
If it were mine, in the winter he'd get hard feed according to workload (read: very little) and go unrugged until clipped, but sometimes the weather has other ideas

 

[MagicMelon]

Personally I think it'd be cruel to sit back and watch him gain even more weight on the long grass he's just been put on. Leaving him unrugged over winter should be fine, hes a native, all horses are different - some feel the cold more than others. But I 100% would be more worried about him gaining any more weight now.

 

[Abacus]

i would take control NOW

i hate the fatter thinner thing, maintaining a steady weight is the healthy way to go, plus you could teach him to lunge and do in hand hacking prep.

connies are not bred to eat cultivated grass, the ones i see are OBESE, ii would invest in some electric fencing and allow him enough fibre to fill his guts, and add some vits and mins


if he came from ireland i would have a worm egg count done

swinging from thin to fat could affect his metabolism, and when you get to the saddles fit part not helpful

when it comes to winter i rug everything and provide access to shelter, for the long term health and developing constitution, it does the feet no good being constantly wet and comfort to lie down is only humane

you could expect your pony to serve you well for many long years if you seize the day now and up your game

I disagree with almost everything you say here. Steady weight is not natural or more healthy - horses have evolved to put on (some) weight in summer and lose in winter and as others have said it IS good for their metabolism. Please don't lunge a 3 year old or indeed exercise it in any way except perhaps the odd inhand walk.

You may feel happier providing 'comfort to lie down' but it's anthropomorphic. Native ponies don't generally need rugging - as I said previously I might do so if there was no shelter or the pony was too thin.

 

[tristar]

I disagree with almost everything you say here. Steady weight is not natural or more healthy - horses have evolved to put on (some) weight in summer and lose in winter and as others have said it IS good for their metabolism. Please don't lunge a 3 year old or indeed exercise it in any way except perhaps the odd inhand walk.

You may feel happier providing 'comfort to lie down' but it's anthropomorphic. Native ponies don't generally need rugging - as I said previously I might do so if there was no shelter or the pony was too thin.

totally disagree with you

 

[ycbm]

i hate the fatter thinner thing, maintaining a steady weight is the healthy way to go, plus you could teach him to lunge and do in hand hacking prep.

No it isn't. It's completely unnatural for a horse to be the same weight all year. Their systems were designed for weight loss in winter.

 

[Abacus]

totally disagree with you

It really doesn't matter if you do. I only commented so that the OP or anyone else thinks twice about what you've said: thus, this forum offers a range of opinions.

 

[ycbm]

if you would re read , i said TEACH HIM TO LUNGE, that is different from working him on the lunge

So why would you teach him to lunge and then not lunge him, in the context of a discussion about weight loss?

 

[ycbm]

I have a 3 year old Connemara who wintered out [edited to add - not with me - he was in Ireland and came over in March] and to be honest did look a bit like a gangly hat rack coming in to spring. I think there may have been some judgement for not rugging or feeding him [edited to add: when he arrived!] (and I questioned myself at points) but now on 6 weeks of very good summer grazing he looks gorgeous and if anything is now on the fat side and have to press to feel ribs! He's just been moved onto another ungrazed paddock with waist high grass and I expect will gain further weight.

Grooms at the yard say he looks good, isn't fat and I don't need to worry about weight management... and ok he isn't currently obese but having another lami risk native pony I am always worried so am going to ask about strip grazing if he gets much bigger than he is now (he lives out 24/7, yard owner doesnt allow muzzles for safety reasons). I don't think anyone else thinks he is a lami risk as he's only 3 and pure connie not a chunky cob type... I know lami is more common in older ponies but I didn't think youngsters were immune?

My plan will be to turn him away for the winter again, leave naked, not feed, and let the weight come off him so he has room to gain again next spring, but is this cruel? I just want to do the best for him!

No it's not cruel. And 3 year old Connies can get it, my friend's 3 year old Connie did.

 

[tristar]

How do you teach a pony to lunge without lunging it?

to teach to move out on the rein, move forwards, bend slightly, a few circuits on each rein.

to work is 15 minutes, first warm up, transitions, walk trot canter, trot to canter, then finishing with trot halt, walk then walk to canter, on smaller or larger circles, straight intervals, cool down

 

[Abacus]

to teach to move out on the rein, move forwards, bend slightly, a few circuits on each rein.

to work is 15 minutes, first warm up, transitions, walk trot canter, trot to canter, then finishing with trot halt, walk then walk to canter, on smaller or larger circles, straight intervals, cool down

15 minutes on the lunge is a lot, especially for a 3 year old.

Walk to canter?? Really?

And smaller circles? The horse would be broken before it's even broken in.

 

[ycbm]

to teach to move out on the rein, move forwards, bend slightly, a few circuits on each rein.

to work is 15 minutes, first warm up, transitions, walk trot canter, trot to canter, then finishing with trot halt, walk then walk to canter, on smaller or larger circles, straight intervals, cool down

So you ARE advocating lunging a 3 year old then.

 

[tristar]

So you ARE advocating lunging a 3 year old then.

So why would you teach him to lunge and then not lunge him, in the context of a discussion about weight loss?


now you are going into the realms of fantasy, or have forgotten how to read
[/QUOT

 

[tristar]

15 minutes on the lunge is a lot, especially for a 3 year old.

Walk to canter?? Really?

And smaller circles? The horse would be broken before it's even broken in.

i said to TEACH him not work him

then followed by my definition of actually working a horse on the lunge and not the 3yr old connie!

please read what i posted

thank you

 

[tristar]

It really doesn't matter if you do. I only commented so that the OP or anyone else thinks twice about what you've said: thus, this forum offers a range of opinions.

that why i said i disagree with you so people can make up their own minds!

 

[ponynutz]

I'm more worried that he's fat now and is about to be on long grass for at least another 2.5 months. That's the issue you have now that needs to be dealt with. A bit of chunk over summer is normal for something not doing anything but if he's getting cresty something needs to be done.

(I'd also ad-lib hay over winter, ours are out un-rugged all day on ad lib hay and then get introduced to the grass slowly. They maintain their summer weight all year round that way. I hate to see dreadfully skinny things just as much as I hate to see fat, cresty ones.)

 

[Pearlsasinger]

This - thank you - you've phrased it better than me!

I was looking for people's experiences with youngsters weight management/ lami risk/ growth to try and optimise and plan ahead for him, and if letting their weight fluctuate seasonally is advisable or not especially at his age.

He was probably a 3.5-4 out of 9 on the body condition score by the end of winter grazing as the move to summer fields kept getting pushed back - when he arrived my mindset was that in a few weeks he'll go onto summer grazing and gain but had continued to loose a bit by the time it eventually came round. Now he's at least a 6 and definitely will be going into winter well covered.

If he becomes thin again over the winter I obviously will manage that (and he will have shelter and hay) so I was asking more about will letting him lose extra weight weight "naturally" is too harsh, and also how wary I should be about summer gains!

There is a SB stud near me where the mares and youngsters winter out with plenty of haylage but actually very little by way of shelter. We are at the top of the Southern Pennines and very exposed but they come through the winter well. The grass is plentiful but never fertilised, more moorland than anything else. They seem to do well on it.

 

[SmallPony]

Didn't expect so many responses! Thank you everyone for your input - it seems like there are lots of different opinions (which makes me feel better that it's not a clear cut thing!)

This field is just shy of an acre and speaking to y/o today the plan will be for him and his big horse buddy to stay on it for the rest of the summer and until winter grazing time. Having walked around it today, obviously there is grass but also quite a lot of herbs/other grasses/nettles/sticky weed/ cow parsley/ dandelion etc, some steeper bits which look more difficult to graze, and close up the grass itself is not as lush at it looks from the road, and actually feels less lush than what he has just been on.

I've taken photos of pony today and tried to be as accurate as possible with condition scoring - he's not cresty, doesn't have a spinal gutter, hips just visible - it's mainly his ribs that he seems to be more well covered on.

Interestingly on digging, the BHS suggested a body condition score of 6 is desirable for a young horse, which I found a bit surprising?! It's good to know others on here prefer to keep theirs on the slimmer side too.

Re exercise - he loves his "work" but at the moment that is in hand bits and bobs and in hand walks around the farm - nothing that would significantly alter his energy balance or weight!

I'll be keeping a close eye on him over the next week or so to see if he continues to gain or plateau, and then I can make a decision on restricting (which would mean separating him and he absolutely adores his friend so not without a big downside to him). It seems like the consensus is a naked winter should be fine but to take it as it comes, which sounds like a good plan to me

 

[Cortez]

There isn't all that much diversity in opinion: 100% agree that horses should not be overweight.

 

[skint.spotty]

Thats not what you said in your original post you said you questioned if you were doing the right thing by not feeding and rugging!

Get you facts right before you blatantly lie.

gosh why are you being so aggressive?

 

[SmallPony]

There isn't all that much diversity in opinion: 100% agree that horses should not be overweight.

There have been different suggestions about seasonal change/ shelter/feed/hay/rugs, which is what I mean by different opinions.

Obviously in an ideal world horses should not be overweight or underweight, but that's not reality is it - I'm conscious enough about weight management to be asking for advice and thoughts so not sure what you were trying to achieve in your comment really - I'm not stupid and it doesnt come off as very kind! If you've got a magic wand to keep your horse perfect all year round please let me know!

 

[hock]

The general consensus is young equines don’t get lami but as seen on this post it is possible.

I have wintered out 7 youngsters this winter mostly lightweight sports horses and they have all come into Spring light. They had rugs on when we had days and days of wet (to avoid rain scald) but apart from that they stayed out rug free all winter on ad-lib hay salt and mineral licks and a basic hard feed with a balancer once a day.

It is absolutely intentional that they are light, not hungry but you can just see ribs. Hopefully these babies will go on to be productive horses with a long and sound life because even though I will no longer own them I have raised them with the intention they will have the best chance for soundness.

Time and time again I see huge well covered youngsters in Spring up for sale. Yes they look lovely and fat and sleek but unless you’re lucky they are a ticking time bomb. Only yesterday I saw a 4 year old Irish horse in show condition but in every photo he was stood camped out to relieve the pressure on his stifles. People were raving about him and it just made me feel sad.

 

[Cortez]

There have been different suggestions about seasonal change/ shelter/feed/hay/rugs, which is what I mean by different opinions.

Obviously in an ideal world horses should not be overweight or underweight, but that's not reality is it - I'm conscious enough about weight management to be asking for advice and thoughts so not sure what you were trying to achieve in your comment really - I'm not stupid and it doesnt come off as very kind! If you've got a magic wand to keep your horse perfect all year round please let me know!

It’s not magic. Don’t over feed, manage grazing and exercise properly.

 

[SmallPony]

It’s not magic. Don’t over feed, manage grazing and exercise properly.

As above, it's not that I am unable to grasp the principles of energy balance, it's the situational nuances

- He doesn't get feed
- He's on a (lovely) livery yard, but grazing and land management isn't purely up to me
- He's just turned 3 and I'd like him to have a long, sound life, so if you can suggest a safe and effective way to "properly exercise" a 3y/o for weight loss, do let me know!

 

[shanti]

I don't rug mine at all, they live out 24/7 and they do drop some weight over winter (which is what I want) I have one who is susceptible to lami and I obviously have to make sure to manage that.
I do give them a small daily hard feed though, for all their supplements. I also provide unlimited access to low sugar last season hay as I would rather they get their roughage from the hay than from the insanely good grass we have in this area.

 

[SEL]

As above, it's not that I am unable to grasp the principles of energy balance, it's the situational nuances

- He doesn't get feed
- He's on a (lovely) livery yard, but grazing and land management isn't purely up to me
- He's just turned 3 and I'd like him to have a long, sound life, so if you can suggest a safe and effective way to "properly exercise" a 3y/o for weight loss, do let me know!

I've got a non ridden one who is worrying me at the moment. She's metabolic and gains weight on thin air.

I'm hand walking her at least once a day and I think you could do that with a 3yo. It certainly doesn't burn any calories but it's 45 mins where she isn't stuffing her face

Is there a field with less grass you could use? Could you try a muzzle or bringing him in for a few hours?

 

[ycbm]

As above, it's not that I am unable to grasp the principles of energy balance, it's the situational nuances

- He doesn't get feed
- He's on a (lovely) livery yard, but grazing and land management isn't purely up to me
- He's just turned 3 and I'd like him to have a long, sound life, so if you can suggest a safe and effective way to "properly exercise" a 3y/o for weight loss, do let me know!

I think if you want him to have the longest possible trouble free life he needs to be living somewhere for the summer that you can muzzle, strip graze, or stable part time. I know that isn't always easy to find in the travelling distance that you want.
.