Am I being particularly dense? Dengie feeds...

[Bounty]

Just looking at the Dengie website and comparing the feeds as I've just changed Cybele over to Hi-Fi Lite rather than Alpha-A.
Interested to note that Hi-Fi lite has the same levels of digestible energy (8MJ/KG) as the bog standard Hi-Fi. The Lite version claims to have low sugar coating, but if the digestible energy levels are the same surely that makes no difference?
If someone could please explain to me that would be great!

Edited to add links, analysis on the right hand side of the page...

Hi-Fi Lite http://www.dengie.com/pages/products/fibre-feed/hi-fi-lite.php
Hi-Fi Original http://www.dengie.com/pages/products/fibre-feed/hi-fi-original.php

 

[angiebaby]

Feeds are very missleading. I don't understand why any of them have added sugar in them? Even the ones made with laminitics in mind have some sugar in them, why?
I switched to Simple Systems' Lucie bix in April this year, not only does it Not have any added sugar, one bag lasts my three ponies 2 months, ( you have to soak for about half an hour, but it more than doubles in quantity)

 

[Paint it Lucky]

I also wondered this; the hifi lite seems to have more fibre so presumably some of the energy lost in sugar is gained from the fibre but as fibre is harder to digest some of this energy may be unaccessible for the horse, for example if stored in lignin. But the site doesn't really give any explanation as to why hifi lite is 'lighter' than hi fi!

 

[Bounty]

I've got a 'thing' about the amount of mollasses that feeds are coated in too, it's ridiculous!
I really wanted to swap over to SS feeding and had spent alot of time, advised by SS staff, devising what and how much each of mine would need. But as it is I have 4 horses who are on a handful of chaff (either Alfa-A or so Hi-Fi not so Lite!), topspec to give them their vit/mins and a splurge of unmollassed sugar beet twice a day. My cash flow can't cope with having to buy SS feeds in at a palletful at a time, as there are no local stockists,or at least there wasn't.

I used the soaked oats diet over the winter though, and they all looked fab on it.

 

[Bounty]

I might be sufficiently intrigued enough to send them an email in the morning.. defintely agree with oyu that there is a definitete lack of explaination of why 'Lite' is lighter.
Does anyone know what each type costs? The cynic in me wonders whether the 'Lite@ brand is just adding a bigger price tag to the original Hi-Fi which has been ever so slightly tweaked

 

[Gorgeous George]

It could be because the lite version has less sugar, but the missing weight is made up with fibre so the two feeds are about the same?

I got confused because if you look at Dengies Healthy hooves it is 8.5mj and they say to feed 3kg a day for a large horse, yet when you look at alfa-a lite also 8.5mj is says to feed 1.5kg a day for a large horse! That is one serious discrepancy!

 

[angiebaby]

I used to feed Good-doer, less mj at 7, but if you look at the list of ingredients, mollasses pops up its ugly head!
Plus they are all too expensive to feed at 3kg a day

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
I got confused because if you look at Dengies Healthy hooves it is 8.5mj and they say to feed 3kg a day for a large horse, yet when you look at alfa-a lite also 8.5mj is says to feed 1.5kg a day for a large horse! That is one serious discrepancy!

[/ QUOTE ] I presume that is because I have read that there is a limit to how much pure alfafa you can feed (something to do with calcium levels) so because the Alfa A is mostly alfafa you shouldn't feed more than a certain amount a day. Because the Healthy Hooves is alfafa mixed with other things, then more can be fed.

The recommended amount to feed is always a bit random anyway - you have to feed according to the individual horse rather than relying rigidly on the bag guidelines.

 

[Capriole]

**I've got a 'thing' about the amount of mollasses that feeds are coated in too, it's ridiculous!**

a horse i look after has a mix that seems to be half treacle its so sticky and horrible, urgh!

 

[Theresa_F]

This is why I feed Simple Systems - I want to feed lots of good with no sugar - just pure fibre.

I don't have to buy a pallet at a time, but I do buy £70 worth to get free delivery. As I also use their brewers yeast, linseed and total eclipse, this is easy to do.

It works out about £3 a week more expensive than other products but in my opinion this is well worth it. My boys have never looked so good and Cairo has never had so much stamina since changing.

I cannot see me going back to a mix based diet again.

 

[Puzzles]

well i love Dengie feeds - although Hi-Fi Lite contains the same amount of enrgy as Hi-Fi (or so it seems) it is based on other sources of energy rather than sugar - for one it is higher in fibre.
The Hi-Fi may be slightly higher in sugar but it could also be lower in oil/fibre.

 

[Porthos]

I have just spoken to Dengie Horse Feeds regarding the differences between the Hi-Fi Lite and Hi-Fi Original, hopefully this should help clarify some of your queries.

They informed me that Hi-Fi Original contains a blend of alfalfa, good quality straw and molasses. The Hi-Fi Lite contains a blend of alflafa, good quality straw and a low sugar molasses extract coating. The 'Lite' is with reference to the sugar level rather than the calorie level.

The Hi-Fi Lite is really low sugar and is approved by the laminitis trust so should be ideal for any horses needing a low suagr feed.

The person I spoke to on their feedline was really helpful, if you are still confused why not give them a call. The number is 0845 345 5115.

 

[angiebaby]

I went to a talk on feeding horses, given by the lady who runs Simple Systems, she said all the feed companies who are "Laminitis Trust" approved pay them to have their symbol on their feeds! Thats why SS are not Lami approved, she wouldn't pay!

 

[Porthos]

I've heard about this too but when I asked the Laminitis Trust about it, the money goes into researching laminitis. There are strict guidelines about what feeds the Lami Trust approve so feed companies can't just buy approval.

 

[SirenaXVI]

Absolutely TGM, it is the calcium levels in Alpha A that cause the problem, Dengie and other nutritionists recommend feeding no more than 3kg of Alfalfa a day, now I do like SS feeds but one thing that genuinly worries me about their lucie bics is that they tell you to feed up to 9KG dry weight a day! Being that they are pure alfalfa, unless you were feeding them with a significant amount of bran, that would most definately cause a calcium overload!

 

[angiebaby]

Thats why mine lasts so long they have about a 2 inch piece twice a day, when soaked ( I soak it in very watered down speedi-beet) its about half a scoop. Never thought to weight it, mine are all natives so its just a little treat really!

 

[TGM]

I was curious about this, so emailed Dengie, so thought you would all like to see their reply:

"Let me clarify, we use coatings on all of our Dengie products to help with the manufacture process and enhance the palatability of the product. During the manufacture process Dengie alfalfa is high temperature dried; a process that makes the alfalfa leaf very brittle and prone to shatter. The alfalfa leaf is the most nutritious part of the plant and for product consistency it is important that it is not lost, therefore we use minimal levels of coating to help bind the alfalfa leaf to the stem.



Both the Hi-Fi Lite and Hi-Fi Original contain a blend of alfalfa and good quality straw the main difference between the products is the coating used on the Hi-Fi Original is a molasses coating where as the Hi-Fi Lite contains a low sugar molasses extract coating. The ‘Lite’ refers to the lower sugar level rather than the calorie level! Regarding Hi-Fi Lite the coating we use is not pure molasses, but a molasses extract. In practice this means that Hi-Fi Lite has a total sugar level of 4% and is the lowest sugar fibre-based feed approved by the Laminitis Trust. To put this in perspective average hay has a sugar level of around 10% and our Alfa-A product with a traditional molasses coating has 9% sugar. Although other coatings, like oil, could be used on Hi-Fi Lite the main disadvantage would be that it would significantly raise the calorie level of the product. This would make it unsuitable for horses and ponies that maintain weight with ease or that need to lose weight and would encompass a significant proportion of laminitics.



Molasses has been given a lot of bad press over the last couple of years, it has been widely used in horses feeds for years and years. The type of sugar found in molasses is classified as 'simple' sugar, which research has shown is digested very effectively by the horse. "

 

[Bounty]

QR
Thanks all, especially Iva_nutty_mare (me too!

) for taking the trouble to ring up.
I think perhaps when mine come into 'proper' work again and need more than the handful of feed that they are getting I might take another look into SS

 

[Bounty]

Thanks TGM - I emailed too but haven't received a response. I expect I'll end up with a copy and paste of the one they sent you!

 

[Dengie]

Dear “Bounty”

It is interesting reading your comments on the Horse & Hound forum regarding the similarities in energy levels between Hi-Fi Lite and Hi-Fi Original, and that one claims to have lower sugar and that you are confused by this. I hope that we can help clarify this position for you.

Hi-Fi Lite has the lowest combined sugar and starch levels of any horse feed product currently on the market. It has the same digestible energy level as Hi-Fi Original, because the proportions of the base ingredients are the same. The difference between the products is the coatings. Hi-Fi Original has an ordinary molasses coating. Hi-Fi Lite has a low-sugar coating. The level that these coatings are applied at means that essentially although the coatings are different (in the amount of sugar that each one delivers) the total energy level for the two products is the same. In this circumstance the “lite” of “Hi-Fi Lite” refers to the sugar level and not the calorie level (as it might be in human nutrition – which is perhaps where your confusion comes from). Horses & ponies prone to laminitis need to avoid high sugar feeds. Hi-Fi Lite is aimed at these horses and ponies, whereas those purely requiring a low calorie feed, that aren’t prone to laminitis could use the Hi-Fi Good Do-er.

The reason why Hi-Fi Lite is more expensive than Hi-Fi Original is simply because the coating is more expensive than the standard molasses coating as it requires more processing to remove the sugars.

You state that you have had no response from us to your e-mail, but having checked our records we have had no e-mail regarding the differences between Hi-Fi Original and Hi-Fi Lite, other than from the person who alerted us to this thread on the Horse & Hound forum. We pride ourselves on responding promptly to all enquires, usually on the same day and certainly no later than the next day, and are very happy to discuss our feeds and horse nutrition in general with anyone who wishes to call. We hope that this clarifies this matter for you, and if we can be of further help, please call us on 0845 345 5115.

Regards

Emma Pelly
Marketing Manager
Dengie Horse Feeds