Am I Cruel? What Would You Do?

Kadastorm

Kadastorm

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I bought a 5yr old NF in August, unseen. He arrived at my yard and my god, he was obese. The fattest horse I have ever seen. At his previous home he was a field ornament with his mum and had a lot of grazing so he has just pigged out all his life.

I bought him unbroken, he arrived to me and was put on restricted grazing straight away and was bought into work and is now broken and riding.

However, he is still overweight. I am trying to exercise him 4-5 times a week, a mix of lunging, schooling, hacking and jumping. On my vets advice I have clipped him, full clip except legs and head and he is currently in a medium weight rug. He is stabled 4-5 nights a week with a large hay net, double netted. Turned out during the day and out all Sunday night and Monday as I am unable to get to the yard to muck out and turn out.

His only other food is a bowl of Dengie Good Doer morning and evening.

My problem: People saying/thinking im cruel.

As he was being re clipped today, a few yardies were saying im cruel to him, others have given him an extra hay net when im not on the yard. People also feed him treats and I have even heard of him getting sugarbeet, mix and alfa a after being ridden.

I don’t mind the other yardies riding him, I am grateful to them for exercising him and looking after him when I cannot be there (my yard is fab for this) but why can they not understand that im not being cruel? my horse is fat and needs to shift it, it is not ‘keeping him warm for winter’, it is harming his health.

I did manage to prove a point today by telling them to come and feel his fat pockets – that seemed to get them to pipe down.

One thing I forgot to ask them was ‘how would you treat this horse then? What methods would you use to shift the weight without being cruel?’

So now I want to know your answers….fire away….
 
My 'bought- overweight' mare has 2 big trugs of oat straw chaff to supplement the small amount of haylage that she gets. Her feed is split into 3, so that she doesn't scoff it all at once. I wouldn't be giving yours good doer even. Mine is losing weight, she's still not down to the weights on the weight -tape but loses about 1 cm each week.
 
How on earth are you being cruel? You are being the total opposite. If I were you I would spread the word that he is NOT to be fed anything without your permission and also put a sign on the door. I would be fuming if people were feeding my horse without me knowing about it. Also just out of interest what is the benefit of clipping him if you are going to rug anyway? Or is the clip nothing to do with his weight?

Good on you for being pro active
 
You cruel women !!.. well if you are so am I - my chap is clipped except half head and legs - in medium weight daytime then heavyweight in minus temperatures as not stabled. He is exercised 3 times a week and fed ad lib hay or haylage - one cup topspec lite and no hard feed. He hunted once a week for last 3 months on this regime and looked great !!

I think you are doing exactly the right thing - although I might cut out the dengie as you are probably not feeding enough to give him his full quota of vits/mins and maybe switch to a lite balancer - you dont need to put it with anything - no hard feed but it will give him all he needs in terms of vitamins etc.

If pony is running out of hay early in the night I would also probably up the amount double netted but soak it to take the goodness out. If he is not running out with hours and hours before turnout leave as it is.

Ignore everyone - people seem to think you are being cruel not giving a big bucket feed - most of the time its the opposite and they are being cruel feeding it.
 
I'd be furious if people were giving my horse sugarbeet or anything without permission even if my horse was skinny! Perhaps put a notice up saying Vet request you put notice up, as horse is in danger of an early death if he isn't on a strict diet etc etc XX
 
I had the same problem with my horse, when I bought him he was uninsured for anything that linked to obeseity (yes he really was that fat) so after I bought him he was given I strict vet diet, he stayed in and had one section off hay a night soaked and double netted and same in morning and turnout for 2 hours in afternoon, plus hard feed with supplements.
People complained to the yo that I was starving my horse! I just told them where to stick it as it was a vets diet did die down in the end but took a while!
 
You are not cruel the ones feeding him are. He needs to lose weight and then work hard in that order.
My fat pony was in restricted grazing clipped out and in a medium rug as she was huge, out 24/7 she was never cold though. I dont feed hay until droppings fall to below 4 per pony obviously if they are in they need it to keep their guts going but if they can pick at grass then no hay until it starts to affect their tummies. I am not sure how you will stop people feeding your pony but I would put a sign up saying please do not feed this pony anything as he is on a veterinary advised regime. If you want others to ride or are happy with them riding get a very low carb low sugar chaff to leave in a bucket for them to feed him so you know what he is getting. If they are worried you could bed him on straw as he will have fibre to pick on at all times
 
Ask your vet to write a statement on headed paper for you (or even better you write it and get the vet to print and sign it to save him time) laminate it and pop it on your stable. Sometimes people need a bit of "authority" to realise what you are saying and doing is correct.

You need something like

X is a condition score of 4, this is unhealthy for a horse and can cause other issues such as x,y and z. I have therefore strongly suggested to your name here that she has x fully clipped in a light rug, double holed hay net weighing x kg, and no other feed to achieve weight loss of x kgs by date.

Signed

Vet
 
I recently got one of my ponies back, And my god I couldn't believe how obese she is, I mean huge solid crest and belly looks full term preg.
I have stuck her in a field with little grass and feed some mid range hay, she gets no feed or treats and is hand walked 30mins a day up and back down a steep hill.
Sometimes what ppl see is cruel is kind.
 
I really hate using clipping and under rugging to make them lose weight. I think it makes them diff and so much more likely to pull something. I don't mind feeding less and increasing work but I don't like the under rugging. IMO a med weight rug for a fully clipped horse living out in sub zero temps is too little. Maybe not cruel but it would make me feel uncomfortable
 
Leaving him to get laminitis is cruel.

Dieting him in the face of so much opposition form well meaning but ignorant people is the best thing you could do for him.

Ella19 idea is a good one.. trouble is there is always someone who 'knows better'
 
If he was mine he wouldn't be getting ANY hard feed. I must be sadistically cruel :eek: I'd be furious if someone undermined my authority. My horse, my rules. Your horse, your rules.
 
Thankyou for your replies! Puts my mind at rest a bit!

Im rugging him because i felt really mean one day when i came up after it had been raining overnight to find him shivvering, i dont want him to be freezing. He is also clipped as he sweats up alot after work and because i think its smarter than having a fluff ball of a pony :)

I did think about a balancer, will look into that definately! Thankyou.

And i think i may have made my point with the other yardies but will write a message to ensure they dont give him anything else :)
 
Countrychic said:
I really hate using clipping and under rugging to make them lose weight. I think it makes them diff and so much more likely to pull something. I don't mind feeding less and increasing work but I don't like the under rugging. IMO a med weight rug for a fully clipped horse living out in sub zero temps is too little. Maybe not cruel but it would make me feel uncomfortable
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Why?

I have read that horses have a very great ability, much better than a humans, to mobilise fat to keep themselves warm. A clipped horse turned out on a cold night is not cold unless he has no fat to burn.

OP, no you are being kind. It may save his life. It certainly won't kill him.
 
You are not being cruel at all.

Being obese creates a huge amount of extra stress on the legs, tendons and bone alike. It also means the horses heart has to work extra hard to try and get oxygenated blood around the body, and all the organs are under massive stress to try and function properly.

I wouldnt be giving a bucket feed either, hay would be at 1.5% of bw and nothing more - triple net if necessary. Anyone who feeds him extra would be getting their heads chewed off if it was mine. The laminitis and EMS risks alone are huge.

Good doer ingredients - contains sugar and alfalfa - no good for a fatty.

Ingredients: Cereal Straw, Alfalfa, Molasses, Mould Inhibitor, Mint Flavour, Lysine, Zinc sulphate, Manganese sulphate, Vitamin E, Copper sulphate, Sodium selenite.
 
Lawks...good job they don't come to my yard:)
3 cobs....all 'good doers' .....a handful of TopSpecTopChopLite - unmolassed with vit/min mix...and haylage..end of!
They are out 24/7 when fields not floating.....unclipped, un rugged and two fields from the sea :)

I like the idea of the vet letter. Would your vet be able to say something like anyone feeding the horse anything other than the express wishes of the owner is risking Laminitis?
Would it be an idea to get a nutritionalist down to the yard to give a talk to all interested and weigh peeps horses? For them ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law..what if he develops Laminitis?

Bryndu
 
I really just don't get people who feed fatties behind the owners back I would be so cross if my horses diet was being undermined like this .
I bought an obese horse too he's gone from 760 kilos to 577 kilos it's taken over two years and it was a complete slog even without people giving him extra;) stuff behind my back.
I found honey chop plain chopped straw a great stomach filler he always had a bowl of that if he had run out of everything else .
I am sure I would have had comments if I had had him on a yard rather than at home while he was an the mega diet you have stand your ground .
But once you get them slim it's magic .
Mine can now have add lib haylage in the stable as long as he's out a good part of the day , he's hunting and by Christmas I might have give him extra ( as in hard food ! ) when the OH's home and he's working extra hard .
He's rid himself of a whole list of medical issues all caused by fat and is a different horse.
Stand firm you know you are doing the right thing.
 
I'd mix straw in with his forage, or get hold of some of last years hay so he can have more forage if he's standing for hours without. And give just a spoonful of chaff if he expects a bucket feed/ if others are fed around him. Not mad keen on the idea of 5 days in, 2 days out, but that's nothing to do with weight. Just ime few horses adapt to that, unless its varied according to weather, rather than day of the week. However, I don't know your horse, so if it isn't bothered fair enough.
 
OP you're not cruel. I've got the only unrugged horse on the yard - a New Forest x cob, so I know exactly what you mean about their weight. Mine is fat! She is only 3 and a half, so I can't do much work with her. She lives on crap grazing by day, and has one net a night. I've taken her off all hard feed, but I do sometimes give her a feed ball with a few high fibre cubes in on days when she has to stay in. She has one carrot when I give the TB her feed.
I put her out when the temperature was still -4 this morning and when I touched her, she was like a little warm teddy bear, just radiating heat. Rugs? No chance!!
 
The_angel_littlelegs said:
I'd mix straw in with his forage, or get hold of some of last years hay so he can have more forage if he's standing for hours without. And give just a spoonful of chaff if he expects a bucket feed/ if others are fed around him. Not mad keen on the idea of 5 days in, 2 days out, but that's nothing to do with weight. Just ime few horses adapt to that, unless its varied according to weather, rather than day of the week. However, I don't know your horse, so if it isn't bothered fair enough.
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He isnt too bothered about in 5 nights and out 2. He is only in due to the mud as he is a bit of a sensitive soul and gets mud fever quite easily. my yard is 33 miles away and on a monday and tuesday i have uni so i am unable to get all the way down there and then 44 miles to uni to turn out and muckout. Its a real pain but he seems fine by it, i work at my yard the rest of the week and stay there so i can easily get him in and out.

I will probably speak to my vet to get him to do a talk with everyone about weight and nutrition. We all have the same vet and most really respect him so hopefully that would do the trick. i know he has a horse who he clips and turns out all year round too, i doubt anyone would call him cruel (not to his face anyway).
 
No not cruel, thought a medium rug was quite cosy Natives are meant to shiver off the pounds. A decent rug which is waterproof would be fine. I would do decent hay and a good vitamin lick such as a rockie.

The bottom line is you need to get the weight off him using the cold weather to your advantage.

As for the experts.... I have an allergy to sugar notice might help!
 
cptrayes said:
Why?

I have read that horses have a very great ability, much better than a humans, to mobilise fat to keep themselves warm. A clipped horse turned out on a cold night is not cold unless he has no fat to burn.

OP, no you are being kind. It may save his life. It certainly won't kill him.
Click to expand...

Because it makes a huge difference to their muscles. Being cold is not good for their muscles. I have no problem with leaving them unclipped and unrugged but clipping them removes their natural ability to regulate their temperature. It's far kinder to just make an effort to ride more. I must have had over 40 horses in my care and I've never once had to do that
 
I don't think a full clip and a medium weight rug is cruel at all. My lad is fully clipped and is in his medium weight still and he's at perfect weight with hardly any hard feed at all, just enough for his minerals.

If you put a heavy weight rug on now what are you supposed to do when the temperature drops another 6 or 7 degrees? I always save my heavyweight rugs for the constantly below zero temperatures. I must be cruel too, but my horses seem quite happy and healthy on it!
 
You are not cruel at all. I would speak to the others and the YO and make sure they all know how important it is that they do not feed treats and extra hay. I have a constent struggle to keep my girls weight under control. She goes out in a muzzle and is stabled over night, I soak her hay for 24 hours and put it in a double net to slow her down. Takle no notice of what they are saying and make sure that they understand they can not give extra feed.
 
Cruel?!!?!?! Most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. You sound like a brilliant owner! Someone on our yard suggested somebody should fully clip their horse then stick him out with no rug whatsoever to make him freeze the weight off, and people say YOU'RE cruel? Wow.

If possible soak hay for 24 hours, makes a big difference. Also muzzle at the VERY least during the summer months, if not from march through to october when the grass is growing - again makes a huge difference - coming from somebody with a highly laminitic little pony!
He was huge when we got him nearly 6 years ago, indentations in his back where the saddle had sunk in (disgusting) - and this worked - though the only way he got ' properly skinny' was when he became ill which, funnily enough, wasn't the ideal way to shift the weight!
 
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Maybe have a word with the yard owner or manager and between you send a clear message out that no one but you should decide what your horse is fed

A vets notice, sign etc.. is a good idea but essentially you are being undermined when you arent there and the YO/YM needs to help your enforce your requests and really a notice shouldnt be needed - if your yard is as helpful as you say they should respect your wishes

If the horse is a favourite amongst the riders a threat of 'no riding unless you toe the line' may be useful too
 
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