Am I dealing with this behaviour correctly? Advise needed.

[ImmyS]

Hello everyone,

As some of you may know I recently took on a horse on full loan. She was homebred and from the pieces of information I have had from different people she's had quite a stop-start ridden education. She's been with her breeder her whole life, but loaned to various people. She has a history of napping and general, I guess you would call, ill manners.

So ridden wise she has been back in work after a 6 month break for about 2 months and is gaining condition nicely. She is very impatient and has a habit of kicking out when frustrated for example when mounted and being asked to stand still - she also would do it loose in the field if she's waiting for feed for example therefore it does seem behavioural. So far I have just been ignoring the behaviour and waiting until she stops before she gets to move on. Should I be doing anything else? Obviously the kicking out isn't ideal at all.

The next thing is the napping. She doesn't nap towards home or other horses, just every now again she will just decide to stop if out in front and will walk backwards, kick out, mini rears etc. I can't put my finger on a trigger. In this case I have just been waiting it out and riding her through it and stopping all pressure when she does move forward. These episodes however seem to be getting more often. It does feel like she's testing the boundaries and from what I have heard previous riders have given up on her because of the napping and so seems to be learned behaviour. She has also started jogging a lot which I have been rectifying by asking her to stand everytime she jogs and then walk on again. Must say that generally she doesn't nap too badly when hacking alone. Must also add that getting angry, using a stick etc.. Just makes her worse.

On the ground she is generally easy to do, but lacks manners - will sometimes walk through you, rush gates, pull for grass etc. We are working on this and she is getting better.

Just to add that everything health wise has been checked and she has a newly fitted saddle. I took her in the school today after a nightmare hack and she worked beautifully - its very frustrating as she will be a fantastic horse once the quirks are ironed out.

I guess I am just wondering if anyone has had similar horses and issues. Advice is very welcome or general encouragement and hope that we will get there in the end!

Tea and biscuits on offer x

 

[SpringArising]

She sounds just like one of mine that I had. He was a nightmare and would back up bloody anywhere - had some scary near-misses with some very deep and wide ditches and close cars!

The trick is to drive them forwards as SOON as you feel them tensing up. You say there's no warning so it's a bit harder, but there is usually always signs - raising head slightly, changes to ear position, whinnying etc.

I used to tap (not smack, literally just let the stick flop onto his flank) the minute I sensed he was going to do it, really sat back (don't fall onto the forehand or it'll make it easier for her to), big boot and say 'HUP! HUP! HUP!' loudly and in a high pitched voice. I looked and sounded ridiculous, but it really did work. Failing that, I'd sit it out for however long it took, occasional tap behind leg to let him know he was still supposed to be going forwards, and then pat pat pat and a 'good boy' and trot as soon as he moved off.

 

[ImmyS]

Thanks for that SpringArising. They do sounds similar. There really is no trigger - its like a switch in her head just goes 'ohh I'm bored now let's try this'. She is well bred and a stunning horse, but she's very good at evading work because I believe she's never had that consistency and never been pushed through her issues - I can imagine she's probably scared a few people.

I forgot to mention also that we've had problems cantering out hacking as well. According to her owner she hasn't done much so I don't expect her to be perfect, but some days she's fine, no problems whatsoever, then other days we have anything from stopping, bucking, broncing and so on - again with no obvious trigger. She always starts off a canter fine, and she canters no problem in the school - she's unbalanced but works nicely. We always canter out with one other sensible companion - I've just been sitting to these episodes as good as I can and pushing her through it until I get a few strides of canter and then bring her back, but it's getting slightly tiresome and beginning to knock my confidence which doesn't help!

 

[Clodagh]

Have you tried a wip *** thing, a piece of lead rope you carry and you swing it back and forwards like using reins in gymkhana days? So hitting them in fornt of the saddle.

OMG not allowed to say w o p. It is a techniacal name, honest!

 

[ImmyS]

Have you tried a wip *** thing, a piece of lead rope you carry and you swing it back and forwards like using reins in gymkhana days? So hitting them in fornt of the saddle.

OMG not allowed to say w o p. It is a techniacal name, honest!

I haven't, but I really don't think it will help in this case
Thanks for the suggestion though x

 

[soulfull]

I'm sure if you watch very very carefully there will be a subtle warning she is going to to it,my welsh used to just tip his nose 1/2 inch to the right before he buggered off,however if I immediately turned his nose back again he would carry on good as gold.
if you can find it or be ready at all time, short sharp shock often work very well. That can be leg, whip and or voice. Then masses of praise.

I would also be doing MORE ground work. Friends horse was a monster, 3 days in a dually backing up, standing while I backed up, walk towards me but making her stop before she gets in my space (waving leadrope in her face). Leading behind me as she hadn't earn the right to walk alongside me and stopping EVERY time I did. Teaching her that she pays attention to me ALL the time, if I'm stood by her she doesn't start looking off elsewhere (obviously a brief look at something is fine but on,y brief then I turn herhead back to me)
All these have made a massive difference she now no longer naps out hacking, doesn't lunge at people over the stable door. She actually really enjoys the ground work too.
Seems now he knows what it is she should be doing she is so much happier

 

[Luci07]

Just another thought to throw into the pot. Has she recently come into season? The mares on our yard all seem a little "distracted" and trying it on much more than normal.

 

[ImmyS]

Just another thought to throw into the pot. Has she recently come into season? The mares on our yard all seem a little "distracted" and trying it on much more than normal.

She has been in and out of season a couple of times- I do allow for this and understand it can affect behaviour, but all of the behaviour has been there since day dot - most likely exacerbated by seasons though.

 

[Count Oggy]

I haven't, but I really don't think it will help in this case
Thanks for the suggestion thoughx

Don't underestimate this method. I have a rooter. He would completely ignore the leg and get angry at the whip, kicking out and mini bucks. I used my reins, holding them firm in one hand and using the other to flip flop the ends over his shoulders. I was amazed that it actually worked and I only tried it out of desperation as we were completely stuck in the lane and I wasn't turning around to go home or getting off to lead him and he wasn't taking another step.

 

[Cheiro1]

She has also started jogging a lot which I have been rectifying by asking her to stand everytime she jogs and then walk on again.

If you are struggling with her napping I think I would ignore the jogging, it sounds like you are kind of trying to teach her opposites, you want her to go forward but when she is keen to go forward you "punish" (wrong word but you know what I mean) for it.

Otherwise it sounds like you're doing well. Do as much ground work as you can and never let the bad manners go un-corrected.

 

[ImmyS]

If you are struggling with her napping I think I would ignore the jogging, it sounds like you are kind of trying to teach her opposites, you want her to go forward but when she is keen to go forward you "punish" (wrong word but you know what I mean) for it.

Otherwise it sounds like you're doing well. Do as much ground work as you can and never let the bad manners go un-corrected.

I understand what you're saying - its a tricky one because she's not a backwards thinking, lazy horse - she's very forward going and usually swings along quite nicely, but the jogging seems to be a new evasive thing. If she was generally backwards and nappy I wouldnt mind the jogging so much. It's more the principle of not listening to the rider and only doing things on her terms. With her I don't feel like I'm teaching her opposites - I feel they're two separate issues I am trying to correct. It's hard to explain - I've never dealt with a horse quite like her so we are still getting to know eachother and figure things out.

And yes I agree with groundwork - the more the better.

Thank you

 

[NZJenny]

I can sympathise - my lovely baby horse has turned into a "teenager" over the last few weeks. She is rising five and is doing the same, she's ok hacking (so far), but schooling has been a bit of a mission. She also does the stop, ears back, kicking, threatening to buck etc. I just keep flicking her with the whip until she goes forward again.

As an owner you question everything you thought you know and when you've exhausted all the other options (tack, teeth, feet etc), it's a case of grit teeth and get through it. Every young horse I have had has gone through it (some worse than others), and holding that thought is what keeps me sane! Good Luck.

 

[Charlottedv]

My mare was a pig for napping when I first got her, she was royally taking the Mick out of me knowing I was a complete novice! Experienced people helped me and in the end it was a combination of yelling 'gettttttt!' And sharp pony club kick when I felt her slowing up to stick, walking everywhere in a ridiculous fast walk with a stupid cheery smile plastered to my face and if she really got stuck, turning her round and making her walk backwards but in the direction I wanted always worked.

Have faith! That was 10 years ago now and she had me in tears most nights, but since then we've done everything, show jumping, cross country, dressage, with few napping moments but nothing that a scary growl can't fix!

 

[SpringArising]

I understand what you're saying - its a tricky one because she's not a backwards thinking, lazy horse - she's very forward going and usually swings along quite nicely, but the jogging seems to be a new evasive thing. If she was generally backwards and nappy I wouldnt mind the jogging so much. It's more the principle of not listening to the rider and only doing things on her terms. With her I don't feel like I'm teaching her opposites - I feel they're two separate issues I am trying to correct. It's hard to explain - I've never dealt with a horse quite like her so we are still getting to know eachother and figure things out.

And yes I agree with groundwork - the more the better.

Thank you

I know what you mean with this cause mine was like it too. My arms would be in AGONY after I got off from the constant pulling and jogging, but he would also plant. Sometimes we'd be having a really good, forward canter and then BAM! the brakes would come on because he spotted a log about three miles away :rolleyes3:

I should add that he was a 5yo at the time and slowly got better the more he realised that he could fanny about all he wanted but he was still going to go forwards eventually. Keep with it and try to stay calm.

 

[Clodagh]

A random thought. My son had a LR pony that was sharp as, I used to give him Rescue Remedy at the start of a pony club rally, mainly so we could get to the meet point with no dramas. By the time it had worn off he was a bit tired and easier. (The pony got the RR, not my son).

 

[ImmyS]

I know what you mean with this cause mine was like it too. My arms would be in AGONY after I got off from the constant pulling and jogging, but he would also plant. Sometimes we'd be having a really good, forward canter and then BAM! the brakes would come on because he spotted a log about three miles away :rolleyes3:

I should add that he was a 5yo at the time and slowly got better the more he realised that he could fanny about all he wanted but he was still going to go forwards eventually. Keep with it and try to stay calm.

Thank you - I think I know that she'll grow out of most of it with consistency in ridden and ground work. It's just comforting to know I'm not alone and we will get there eventually!

 

[ImmyS]

A random thought. My son had a LR pony that was sharp as, I used to give him Rescue Remedy at the start of a pony club rally, mainly so we could get to the meet point with no dramas. By the time it had worn off he was a bit tired and easier. (The pony got the RR, not my son).

Thank you - definitely something worth considering x

 

[WandaMare]

I think it just takes time as you build your partnership and at some stage she will just think this napping/messing isn't worth the effort any more. I have had 2 mares like this and both turned into really nice rides. One of them I bought last year and we spent most of the summer getting to know each other (the polite way of putting things!). We made some progress but it felt slow. Then over the winter I did lots of groundwork and leading her out for grazes in hand due to flooded arena and lack of riding and this has done the her the world of good. Once the ground was up to riding again earlier in the year it felt like we had taken some massive leaps forward and she has been a different horse to ride this year. The reason her previous owners sold her was due to napping and generally being difficult but I have found that taking things slowly and being consistent and not pressurising her has been the key to getting on with her.

Had a fab ride with her this morning, she's a lovely horse when she works with you. I'm sure yours will be the same given some more time with your approach.