am i expecting too much?

J

JadeyyBabeyy

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this may be long but i really do need your advice :)

i am riding a friend of mines PRE horse. he is a 6 (maybe 7 now) gelding. shes had him for 8 months and she brought him for happy hacking, but before with his breeders he was out doing unaff dr, and recieving good marks.
i can do what i like with him but i am at college mon-fri (i board there) so i can only really ride him in half term / w/ends, at the weekends we just go out hacking, and we mainly just stick to walk. he isnt worked correctly on the hack apart from walking out.
it is now my half term and i have ridden him everyday or lunged him, he is in a snaffle bridle, but he is starting to get really resistance and rude.
everytime i have ridden him (from when first brought) he does his annoying walk/jog trot and also does little bucks and rears, now these bucks and rears are getting bigger and bigger and there is no reason why. teeth/back/saddle etc is all fine
when ridden he is now getting soars around his mouth area, i am NOT sawing him nor am i heavy handed, he also gets this with his owner.
i tried him in my hackamore today, i know that it is a big difference to the snaffle but im just trying out different things that work for him, he refused to walk alot, and was soo tense, i didnt even bother trotting because it would have been dangerous (i was also alone)

i also try talking to him and relax and this doesnt clam him down either, i spend alot of time in walk and do some lateral movements to relax him too.

i have one more bit to try on him and then i dont know were to go after that.
all i need him to be able to do is W,T,C and pop a small fence.

what would you lot try /do ?
 
i am not experienced with young horses i prefer cobs but you could try sorta starting again sorta thing. I dont believe all that hes doing is normal but is he quite strong especially in the mouth??? He seems to have a problem and you have tried all has he got a health problem that has started this?? i used to have a loan pony with the smae sorta problems you arer describing she used to cough a lot when she was ridden and we found out she had a respirtory and mental problem ( she was 7) im not much help but maybe you should write into a magazine and get one of there profesionals to answer your question or get an equine behaviourist??? xx
 
Has his bit been cleaned with a different substance than normal? That could possible cause agitation to his mouth.

Has his routine changed at all, turnout, feeding, anything?

If he was trained in Spain that might explain his difficulty. Horses are ridden and trained very differently out there compared to how they are in the UK. Do you have an Iberian horse trainer near you that you could have a couple of lessons with to get your relationship back on track?

Was it an English hackamore? you need to have very subtle contact with any hackamore (german or english) otherwise they cause immense pressure to sensitive areas of the nose and can make a horse tense and reluctant to move forward.

The best advise I can offer you is to just be patient he is still quite young.
 
You have probably already checked this but is the bit at the right level in his mouth? Having ridden my mare in her bridle for months, a new instructor told me the bit was too low and to put it up a hole. It looked high to me but she said it was correct, there was more than a little crease in the corner of her mouth.

she was fine until I bought her back into work after the cold patch over the winter, and she was doing the same as yours, jogging, messing, and I thought it was just the effort of starting work again. Anyway it carried on and having had everything else checked, I decided to let her bit down a hole again to where it used to be. She was happier straight away, much more relaxed in her contact and a lot less tension. It surprised me that a small adjustment like that could make so much difference, they can be so sensitive in their mouths and also over the poll, which is where I now think my horse was feeling some discomfort. Might be worth experiementing with yours, even try a different bridle and see if it makes any difference....
 
thanks for the replys.

he was born in the uk and has been with his breeders until my friend brought him.
it was an english hackamore and i didnt apply any pressure because i know that it is a huge difference it was just to see if he was unhappy with a bit in his mouth
no his bit is just always cleaned with fresh water
also his routine is the same apart from a little more work, he lives out 24/7 and has a small hard feed because he is in very little work.
unfortunately because he is not my horse we dont have an amaxing bond, there is one but not as much as i would like and its not able to have a 'owner' bond with him.

i may try adjusting the bit up a hole to see if it makes a difference but i just feel mean because the soars look horrible. when i ride him tomo would it worth putting LOADS of vasaline on to stop the rubbing??

thank you
 
Has he been checked by the vet and dentist? And has his tack been checked by a reputable saddle fitter? If all's genuinely well in all those respects, maybe it's just the onset of Spring? Brighter weather and spring grass can have a major effect on some horses when it first comes in; And, if he's being more difficult to ride because he's feeling Spring freshness this may account for the bit rubbing excessively.
 
Just a thought but you say you only ride him in walk at the weekends during termtime but is now half term and you've been doing something with him everyday - might this explain some of the behaviour (and the soreness if he's mouthing the bit a lot everyday in a mouth that's not used to it?). Are you using any training aids on him when you lunge?

Or was he bring ridden in the week by his owner in which case ignore the above.
 
Is his owner okay with you changing his bit and bridle and everything?

I don't mean to be harsh OP, but you say that every time you have ridden him he has misbehaved and bucked and reared, and is getting worse. To be perfectly honest, it sounds to me as though you are overhorsed, and are perhaps not the best person to be trying to bring on this horse.

I would not ride him at all while he has sores on his mouth either - even if you're not harsh on the bit, it will hurt him and will exacerbate any behavioural problems. Perhaps the bit is too small and is pinching him? Either way this is something his owner should be changing as a horse shouldn't be getting a cut mouth from its bit.

Does the owner know you are having these problems?
 
The sores around the mouth area give rise for concern, and I would agree that there may be a problem with the bit being ill fitting or something of that nature. Also you mention that he is ridden in a snaffle, personally with a young horse, I would only use a french link snaffle.

If he is as you say only 6 and has been with the current owner for 8 months, he is still very young.

Obviously you will be unaware of how he was backed and brought on with the breeder, but, if as you mention he was expected to do dresssage, I would say that there has been too much expected too soon from this horse.

I feel that the bucking and rearing, together with the jog trotting and rudeness added to the fact that he is tense, indicates to me that he is confused and anticipating being asked for an exercise he is unsure of, compounded by the fact that the anticipated request does not come.

If he was mine, I'd start again from scratch with this horse and get a proper foundation which you can rely on. If what you want is walk, trot and canter with a small jump, I think that you are being realistic. I'd do lots of groundwork and games with him, and I'd ride him in a rope head collar.
 
Spanish horses are very sensitive and tend to tell you when you are doing something wrong. eg: hands not still = head in the air and resistance. Not sitting straight = horse doesn't go in a straight line. Bumping in saddle = bucking, etc. You need to really think about the way you ride them. They are far less forgiving of our bad riding habits than other breeds! I'm not saying that your a bad rider, just that they seem to expect higher standards!

If he isn't usually ridden much he will probably have his own opinion about how much work he should do too! Also suddenly increasing his workload will make his muscles ache and might be causing resistance.
I wouldn't ride him with a sore mouth either. Is it possibly that he's eating something in his paddock to cause the sores. Eating prickly hedges can do it.
 
I would let the mouth heal before you ride in a bit.

Have thou thought about the bit being too high? My horse has it lower than 'normal' and is a bit big but he prefers it that way. With horses you can't always play it by the book.

Have you thought about you riding is affecting him now he's misbehaving? It might be worth reading a thread on here about how riders affect the horse. Very interesting read.

From what I can gather PREs are very different to your 'normal' type of horse and require a different type of riding and a very sensitive rider. Perhaps, in the nicest way possible you have over horsed yourself.
 
Another thought! I can't remeber if you said what hard feed he gets, but try cutting any other feed out except for hay, not haylage. No chop or anything.

A piece of advice I was given when I bought my PRE stallion was, if you keep hold of the front and push the back there is only one way for the horse to go. Up! I know this is often deemed the acceptable method for getting horses 'on the bit' by many trainers, but it doesn't work with PRE's! They need to be taught to stretch down and out, otherwise their paces can become short and choppy. Don't worry about him being 'on the bit'. This will come in time with lots of transitions, changes of direction, circles and lateral work etc.
 
ok, i have ridden him fine in the past, just over the winter it has got worse.
i am not riding him atm, im just doing ground work with him, just changes of bend/stretching etc.
forgot to say that the snaffle is a french link eggbut.
i understand that they are more sensitive, this is why i have tried different ways of riding and different approaches, but some of it is him just being a little rude.

thank you.
 
I have a horse with super sensitive skin, I think he may have some underlying issue, but it's manageable and he's semi retired and not insured, so I don't want to dig deeper!! May just be his colouring (he's a cremello)... But he had to have vaseline under his girth and all around the rings of his bit, or he'd be raw after only a light hack, also had to wear a special padded girth, and has to be COVERED in suncream/sudocrem in the summer or he gets burned on his face/ears/legs and belly. But anyway, back to the subject :p He couldn't be ridden in a loose ring as it rubbed too much! Maybe just use something with a fixed ring as this won't rub his mouth so much? (also use vaseline on the corners of his mouth so that the bit slides rather than rubs)

I think lessons with an iberian trainer are a really good idea, as otherwise the arguing could turn into a vicious cycle. And yep, review what bit he has. Also when you ride him keep him occupied, lots of circles and transitions, as some horses are very easily bored, and Spanish horses are iuntelligent creatures!!
 
I don't think you're expecting too much but it does sound as though this is an unhappy little horse. :-(

Obviously, as others have said you should continue not putting anything in the horse's mouth (and nor should anyone else) until he has healed and had someone (equine vet and/or dentist) look at his mouth and bit choice.

Once he has healed up you can try again but I'd really recommend getting an experienced sympathetic (with youngsters) RI to come over and give you a lesson on him.

If the bucking and rearing continues with only very simple calm riding once mouth is comfortable I would suggest owner gets back etc looked at.

Very few horses are rude in this way (barging you out the way to get to food or similar can be a different matter!). It normally means they are uncomfortable, confused or scared (which of course can be scary for their handlers!) unless they are kept in too much/given too concentrated high-energy which it sounds like this horse (subject to reducing the hard feed) isn't.

Very best of luck for you and horse.
 
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