Tihamandturkey
Well-Known Member
This
Am I giving my mare enough hay?
- Thread starter loulou-Nina
- Start date
This
Cortez
Tough but Fair
No, clearly Cortez has never had a horse with ulcers (nor, I might add, a miserable horse either...) is because it is not necessary to constantly stuff horses to the eyeballs with hay even when they are overweight.
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
I can only assume that OP is bored at home during the lockdown. I do feel sorry for the horse, if it exists at all.
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
But yours are bedded on straw so can pick at that all night if they want to. We don't actually know what OP's pony is bedded on but should it be shavings, it is absolutely NOT getting enough to eat overnight - and goodness knows why it is being fed mix when its overweight..
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
Is it am optical illusion, or is that a triangular stable?
I too would cut the hard feed but give one more slice of hay.
I too would cut the hard feed but give one more slice of hay.
My equine life
Well-Known Member
I would increase the amount of hay to 3 or 4 slices (so she never runs out) but soak it for at least 6 hours. just make sure you are feeding an all round vit and min supplement as you will be leaching out all the goodness. I like pink powder or NAFs one. mole valleys own will do though. she probs won't be getting enough from just a couple handfuls of nuts. I like my ponies to have unlimited forage. (even my 11hh sec a) I just soak hers so she doesn't get lami. she also gets a soaked fibre feed as she is missing a few teeth.
Leo Walker
Well-Known Member
No one is suggesting stuffing a horse to the eyeballs with food, and they have in fact advised the opposite, no hard feed, reducing the calories in forage etc. This horse also isn't fat.
To leave a grazing animal with no forage for 10 hours every night IS miserable for them and is a significant risk factor for ulcers.
9tails
Well-Known Member
The photo shows a small amount of hemp type bedding, possibly chopped straw, so inedible.
Chinchilla
...
Once upon a time if the horse was too thin if was fed more, if too thin if was fed less and if it was just right the feeding wasn't changed...but we know more about their needs now for maintaining good digestive health, which affects the rest of the horse.
If you're worried about her being fat try double netting the hay so it lasts longer and put her on straw bedding with a big bucket of topchop zero/honeychop oat straw or similar, they're virtually calorie-less but are something to line their stomachs with.
I find straw bales are a lot cheaper than bagged shaving type beddings as well.
If you're worried about her being fat try double netting the hay so it lasts longer and put her on straw bedding with a big bucket of topchop zero/honeychop oat straw or similar, they're virtually calorie-less but are something to line their stomachs with.
I find straw bales are a lot cheaper than bagged shaving type beddings as well.
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
I’d drop the feed and give some extra hay and soak it personally but that’s just me. If worried about standing with nothing mix an even amount of barley straw with the hay. Worked for me with a pony that lives in fresh air
holeymoley
Well-Known Member
Cut the mix- pointless. Feed a vitamin supplement with a handful of chaff OR a balancer on its own and increase the hay. Simples. Soak the hay too so it has less nutritional value and is more bulk fibre. Use small holed haynets.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
so if the horse is done at say 7pm which is probably common and finishes the haynet at 10pm what happens until 8 am when it is probably done again? that seems an awful long time for a horse on mats or shavings/pellets. Genuine question.
Cowpony101
Member
might not be completely right, but it works for us... we give ours an x amount of hay that is approx right for the horse, then in the morning if they have a little bit left then it is the right amount to give, if they have a lot left then it is probably too much, and if they have nothing left and they are hungry in the morning then it is not enough. My 14.2 is out in the day, in at night and I give him 3 slices from a small bale of hay (with the small hay being the rectangular ones about 2m long ish) and that is enough to last him.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
I feed my horses weighed amounts, so generally 8kgs per day for my small (14.2h - 15.2h), very good doers if they are not out grazing, or there is little/no grass, split into 4 feeds, no hard feed at all. Last feed is at 10pm. They will have generally cleaned up their hay by 7.30am feeding time, but are not ravenous, kicking doors or grabbing hay. Some of them will snack on straw during the night, some of them don't. I have cameras in the stables so I can watch them - they chomp away at their hay, some eat more steadily than others but when they are done they rest, lie down etc.
I have been feeding horses for a very long time, and I have operated under instructions from other owners too, including "stuff them with as much hay as they can eat" regimes (result: fat horses). All horses are different, and some types need more feed than others, but this is what has worked for my horses.
I can honestly say that after looking after 100's of horses I have never had a case of ulcers, a cribber, weaver or any other sign of distress. I have only ever had one case of colic, caused by the horse deciding to eat some ivy for an exotic snack (in a field full of grass. He wasn't hungry). I am not advocating starving horses, but I would challenge the idea that a horse, and especially a fat horse, of which there are FAR too many, has to have it's face in a haynet 24 hours a day.
Puzzled
Well-Known Member
There are plenty of fat horses with ulcers! Two wads isn’t enough..I’d be feeding at least three. If she’s overweight give her a low calorie bucket feed and then give her a haynet later at night. She doesn’t need to have a haynet and a bucket feed as soon as she comes in. Tie up her haynet at 7pm.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Cortez we feed by weight too, for 14.2 and a 15 hander a bit less but they are out grazing for a few hours and last net at 10pm. That would be significantly more than two slices from any of our small baled hay though that the OP is feeding.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
The answer to how much to feed is answered by the horse. If it is fat, it is being fed too much. If it is thin, it needs to be fed more. This also applies to other animals (including people).
I realise that this is extremely simplistic, but in essence that's how it works.
I realise that this is extremely simplistic, but in essence that's how it works.
Sail_away
Well-Known Member
Fed too many calories, yes. If it’s already being rugged as little and exercised as much as it can be.
Fed too much forage, not in this case. It’s getting a mix which it doesn’t need and the hay’s not being soaked. Both of those will reduce the calories significantly and allow the horse to have more hay. Which it needs, because it’s coming in at five. Even a slow eater will have finished that by six thirty, some would get through that in half an hour. No one’s advocating stuffing it full of hay, if fact everyone has suggested ways to cut down on this horse’s weight. But say it finishes its net at 6:30pm, and is turned out at maybe 8:30am (at a guess) - that’s 14 hours without food. Your horses might go less than half that, and in the middle of the night when their stomachs aren’t as active.
This horse is not being kept like your horses. So while that rule may be true for you, who is able to feed your horses little and often, and feed later, it’s not true here.
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
This horse, apparently was fat at its previous livery yard. I would be interested to know how much hay it was given overnight in order to get down to the reasonable weight that it appears to be now. Was this 2 sections of a small bale, or less?
If it was 2 sections that is obviously not enough to maintain the horse's current weight.
If it was less than 2 sections, I am not surprised that it shows symptoms of having ulcers.
If it was 2 sections that is obviously not enough to maintain the horse's current weight.
If it was less than 2 sections, I am not surprised that it shows symptoms of having ulcers.
SpringArising
Well-Known Member
I agree with this from a losing weight POV but it's not right for any other.
There have been studies to show that horses who go for prolonged periods with nothing to eat (and the period isn't even that long) become anxious and depressed as their natural desire to eat has been suppressed.
I feed my 14.2 two 6kg nets a night and it's mostly gone by the morning. If he starts putting on weight I up his exercise rather than restrict his forage. I think that's a lazy way of getting them to lose weight if you CBA to exercise it.
Leo Walker
Well-Known Member
Mine is fat and doesn't eat 24/7 so I'm not disagreeing with you on principle. I am however very careful not to have her standing without forage for more than 4 hours, and even then she has a straw bed to eat. This horse isnt fat. 2 slices of hay will be roughly 2 to 3 kgs. Thats to last the horse 14 hours. It then stands on an inedible bed.
Airly announcing that as the horse isn't fat, then it has enough to eat is a very outdated view which has been proven to be incorrect.
Airly announcing that as the horse isn't fat, then it has enough to eat is a very outdated view which has been proven to be incorrect.
Chinchilla
...
It's also worth considering that keeping them without forage in their system for a prolonged period of time will slow their metabolism down so they may actually gain weight, or plateau rather than lose it, especially native sorts.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
I agree. It is OK if they are bedded on straw, they have the chance of something if they wish but overnight, especially in livery yards on shavings and one haynet often small, is IMHO too long a period if hay is restricted. If they have insufficient hay it sets the horse up into starvation mentality. Then it simply gorges the minute it gets more hay which is gone in an hour and it is left hungry for the rest of the night.
I too prefer to exercise rather than restrict feed to control weight.
I don't think you can judge hay by slices. Some slices are thick, some thin.
EGUSVet
Member
A horse needs about 40 calories per kg body weight to maintain.
cut out the hard feed, and feed a good quality hay.
Some studies have shown a good quality alfalfa hay can help coat the stomach for up to 5 hours.
cut out the hard feed, and feed a good quality hay.
Some studies have shown a good quality alfalfa hay can help coat the stomach for up to 5 hours.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I'm not sure where you are from EGUSVet but we don't really get alfalfa hay here, unless you are feeding small furries.
EGUSVet
Member
i got mine a couple of years ago from long meadow haylage near Ely. Plenty of places have it in Cambridgeshire.
Chinchilla
...
In which case it's about £5 for a small handful of the stuff, if you can even find it!! I can't even buy enough to give it to the chinchillas every week, let alone the horses.....also links to studies would be appreciated EGUSVet. I've never seen alfalfa for horses for sale up here (oxfordshire/berkshire way).
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Ha, I'm near Ely but not had a horse up here albeit still on local fb groups. By where you are I wasn't sure if you were based elsewhere where it is more common place. Useful to know
albeit still on local fb groups. By where you are I wasn't sure if you were based elsewhere where it is more common place. Useful to know Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
Feeding alfalfa can set up your horse for more problems as many, especially mares are extremely sensitive to it, because of the phyto-oestrogens.
EGUSVet
Member
In which case it's about £5 for a small handful of the stuff, if you can even find it!! I can't even buy enough to give it to the chinchillas every week, let alone the horses.....also links to studies would be appreciated EGUSVet. I've never seen alfalfa for horses for sale up here (oxfordshire/berkshire way).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10895901
https://holistichorse.com/health-care/stomach-ulcers-in-horses/
https://ker.com/equinews/use-alfalfa-or-lucerne-and-its-effect-gastric-ulcers/
https://equineulcers.online/equine-gastric-ulcer-feeding/
https://thehorse.com/19510/feeding-the-ulcer-prone-horse/
this one is also a good read:
https://alfalfa.ucdavis.edu/+symposium/proceedings/2001/01-061.pdf