Am I hurting my horse? (pictures)

roshah

roshah

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Recently, in gallop, I had a friend video him and he had his mouth open the entire time in gallop, but not in trot or canter. However, I have noticed that he often tries to put his head down to evade the bit when we're simply in walk.

I am not sure really what the problem is, but I have a feeling that he's just not comfortable in his bit and bridle. The bridle itself seems a little small for his head and I shall be replacing it soon to something larger with a thicker nose band... but I feel I should also change his bit.

I am not sure whether his discomfort is down to having been mouthed incorrectly, whether it is a training issue, or something else... He's a very genuine horse in every respect, so I doubt he is playing me up. The vet looked at his mouth but said there was nothing remarkable about it. However, I noticed two small teeth coming on his top gum, but set inwards, more towards the roof of his mouth. I'm not an expert on horse dentistry, but I wonder if the bit is banging on these little teeth making him want to put his head down to evade the bit? Is the bit too narrow? I currently ride him in a regular eggbutt snaffle and do not want to use anything stronger if possible since he doesn't really deserve it IMO.

Galloping with his mouth open is the greatest concern for me, as I am worried that it could lead to respiratory distress. I was (first picture) heavier than I would like to be on the reins because I had never galloped him before and needed to be cautious in case he spooked at the waves on the beach.

Do you feel this problem will resolve itself after we get more comfortable galloping together and I loosen my reins a bit? Or does it sound like there's something going on that needs attention ASAP? He doesn't really look entirely comfortable in his bit even with a very loose rein (see second picture)

I'm kind of in a catch 22 since I don't want to gallop him if it's going to be distressing, and my intuition tells me his not entirely happy with the bit-bridle situation.

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It could be that he is evading the bit hitting the roof of his mouth. As you pull back on the reins it could be hitting his soft pallett and making him open his mouth. Maybe try something with a lozenge in it? I use Neue schule bits. You can get them with warmblood mouths or team up bit. My friend raves about her team up bit where as I use the warmblood mouth bit.

http://www.hangmanshallequestrian.co.uk/neue-schule-team-up-bit-1190-p.asp

http://www.horsebitbank.com/verbindend-loose-ring-snaffle-12mm-42.phtml

Hope this helps. P.s. Love your horse :)
 
Black_Horse -- thank you SO much for these links. I didn't even know bits existed in those cool shapes -- but that's besides the point!

I quite like the looks of the Verbindend Loose Ring Snaffle since he is very heavy on the forehand too (which is also partly down to his breed too, I suspect).

He has a very large head and mouth -- even bigger than my last boy (whose bridle this new fella has been wearing) so would have to make sure I measured him right and got one wide enough.

I've noticed I'm very dependent on the reins to signal (owning to my knee and ankle arthritis) but am also very worried about ruining his lovely soft mouth :(

Thanks again for your post and giving me some options to think about! Will pass your compliments on to Hector regarding his looks. He's a very handsome boy, if a little on the chunky side (something he has in common with his owner!)
 
It's interesting you say you ride him in a "simple eggbutt snaffle" yet the picture shows a loose ring?

How much do you know about bitting?

If it is a single jointed snaffle then it is pinching the tongue and hitting the roof of the mouth when pressure is applied to the reins - I'd open my mouth!

Try something with a double joint (e.g. French link) or a lozenge in the mouthpiece.

Apologies for 2 posts - stupid mobile version :(
 
You seem to have quite a hold on his mouth too. Try slackening off your reins a touch and rely on your seat more for balance. And yes I think your noseband needs to go up a few holes. Actually looking at the second photo your bit looks a bit low too although I can't really tell. It may be banging his teeth. Try putting it up one hole on each side, and as long as his mouth doesn't look like the Joker's from Batman he should be more comfortable.
 
Have an equine dentist out to have a look at his teeth if you can, rather than a vet. I wonder if he might have wolf teeth which are interfering with the bit? One of our horses will only be ridden in a single jointed snaffle, he detests french links whereas our others all have french links. Definitely worth experimenting with different bits if you can get hold of some from friends or local contacts first.

Also check that your noseband and throatlash aren't too tight. The noseband needs to be higher as others have mentioned.

The other thing that jumps out at me is from looking at his neck muscles is that he is maybe hollow when you ride him? Have you had his back and saddle checked? Sorry about all these things, just that these are the things I would be working through if it was one of my horses. He looks a lovely sort and once this is sorted you'll be galloping along that beach having the time of your lives :-)
 
Hedgewitch13 said:
You seem to have quite a hold on his mouth too. Try slackening off your reins a touch and rely on your seat more for balance. And yes I think your noseband needs to go up a few holes. Actually looking at the second photo your bit looks a bit low too although I can't really tell. It may be banging his teeth. Try putting it up one hole on each side, and as long as his mouth doesn't look like the Joker's from Batman he should be more comfortable.
Click to expand...

Agree with this. Also look at trying a bit with a lozenge. I understand your reasons for riding defensively in the picture, but at a gallop he needs to stretch his neck to balance and your wrists and arms need to be fluid with the motion. Just wondering if you weren't sending him a stop signal with your hands while asking him to go.
Other than that, you two look great together. He is rather lovely, isn't he.
 
QR - I agree that the bit and nose band do look a bit too low, IMO. Also, a lot of people think a basic jointed snaffle is a "kind, soft" bit, but really, when you think about it, its not that kind. It has a "nut-cracker" action, which means when you pull back on the reins, or even take a contact, the bit closes, and squeezes on the sides of the tongue etc. A softer bit to me would be a french link. This has a plate in the middle of the joint, so although the bit still closes, its not such a servere angle.

Maybe your boy has a large tongue, therefore the jointed snaffle is putting too much pressure on the sides of his tongue. I would defo try a french link.

Unfortunately, when looking for a new bit, there is no quick fix. It can be a long journey, but I wish you and your stunning lad all the best!!
 
and check the size of the bit - there should be some 1/4" "alllowance" on either side of your horses mouth or it will be pinching. If your bit is too snug (which it does look like in the picture) then you are pinchng his mouth. The bit bank give good advice and you can trial most of the bits for 30 days. There are various ways recommended of measuring but I just borrow a larger size to see if it fits. Bit measurements are from inside the rings.
 
The bit he has is a loose ring snaffle, not an eggbut. However, most single jointed snaffles are not mild at all as when the reins are pulled they squeeze the tongue and the joint pokes into the roof of the mouth. That is why the horse opens its mouth to relieve the pressure. We sometimes make it even worse by using a drop nose band or flash to then clamp the mouth closed! Horses often pull their heads down to avoid the discomfort of the joint sticking into their pallet as it changes the angle of the bit making it lie flatter across the tongue.

I would try him in a French Link loose ring snaffle and see how he goes in that.
 
I hate to say it, but when a horse has it's mouth open in distress like that, he is in pain. The first thing you must do is get his teeth checked,as these are a major source of pain.

The second thing is to change bits. Snaffles (including loose ring and eggbutt_ are VERY painful in the wrong hands - the knot hits the roof of the mouth, and a pressure sore will build up there. I would go milder if you can - a french link can help spread the pressure, although this will cause pain, as any bit will, if in the wrong hands, by pressing on the tongue and bars. Make sure there is just one wrinkle from the bit.

Thirdly, I am afraid that your noseband is too low - this needs to be raised.

Fourthly, you have a very hard hold on the horse -you need to relax your arms, and give and take more - pulling like that will cause any bit to be painful, and distress to the horse. I'm afraid that they are hard pictures to look at :(

Hope this helps, sm x
 
Ditto the advice the use a french link. Also get someone with more experience to check the bridle fir, particularly round the ears/ browband if you think it may be tight.

Next time you go for a fast ride put a neckstrap on your horse (an old stirrup leather is good) so it sits in front of his shoulder. When you canter tuck a few fingres into the strap to help you balance.
 
You seem like a genuine girl and you obviously love your horse and want to figure this out - good for you!

First question-- have you had his teeth - even if they are regularly floated, it can happen that the odd sharp edge escapes the rasp or even that something is stick between the back molars, etc.

How long have you ridden this horse with this tack? Has he always been uncomfortable, has it developed over a period of time, etc! Totally agree with all of the comments above regarding bits/snaffles/etc -- go softer and maybe get yourself a neckstrap to hang onto when galloping. You might then be able to let the horse have his head and learn there is nothing to fear from the hand.

So in my opinion two elements: actual pain from bit, teeth, etc ... and then anticipation of pain caused by above pain!
 
OP - I think the above advice re the fit and shape of the bit and noseband is sound.
It's also really nice to see someone listening to what their horse is telling them by opening his mouth. It's such a common sight to see mouths strapped shut with flashes and I think your horse is lucky to have an owner who cares for his comfort and wants to understand him and communicate with him rather than just control him.
I wish you the best of luck together.
 
As pepole have said, I think your nose band is far to low (this could restrict his breathing), and just a question but why do you ride with your head collar on under your bridle? A friend did this and it made presure sores on her horse where the bridle crossed over it.
Bit wise, my cob had a loose ring snaffle in and he used to suck the bit up into his mouth making it to small so it pinched, and he would then try to evade it?! I now have him in a french link eggbutt that's sorted the problem.

Hope you sort it and I agree with Thistle a neckstrap will do you wonders :)

PS If your horse goes missing, it's because I have him in my field ;)
 
First of all what makes you think he will suffer respiratory issues? Horses breathe through their noses not their mouths and while he will prob make a noise from air running over his soft palette etc I would not be overly worried by it. As has been mentioned above the bit you have is a loose ring not an eggbutt. A link or lozenge should help
 
Put his noseband up a hole or two, if you feel your pony's nose you will feel 2 hollow channels where his airways from his nostils go up, then they stop about6-7cm above his nostrils, your noseband should be sat on the bone not the airways. If that makes sense? :D
Also Get his teeth, back saddle checked, loosen your reins off and try to use your seat alot more. Failing that the NS are fantastic, recently bought one for my mare and the difference is amazing!
D :D
 
I agree with most of what's been said already. I bought an Irish Draught fresh over from Ireland. It has taken me the best part of four years to find a bit he's happy in. Everything has to be checked - I had to have an extra large bridle as large was nipping his ears, we've gone through five saddles, dentist had to come every six months for the first couple of years. I'm afraid there's no other way than to beg, borrow or steal from friends every bit you can then check it's the right size and just try it. I bought all the best bits from Neule Schule, KK Sprenger and after having an extremely astute equine body worker out who looked at the whole picture, she recommended a simple loose ring nathe bit (not happy mouth) and now he's working very well but it's been a long hard and expensive slog.
 
I meant to add that my horse hated every type of jointed bit, from single to french link and lozenge. The bit he was happiest in before the nathe bit was a mullen mouth pelham.
 
You could always try him bitless :-) Doesn't suit all horses but I have known it to work very well on some horses.
 
I agree with pretty much everything that has been said.

  • The noseband is too low
  • The bit looks a bit too small
  • You're balancing on the reins

These are things that can be altered very easily :)

I was also wondering why you are riding with a headcollar under the bridle?

If you feel that you need support when galloping (which is evident because you are leaning on the bit to keep your balance) then, like others have said, buy a neck strap. They offer so much support and your horse has the freedom to move his neck because you are not leaning on the bit.

Also, a loose link bit with a lozenge may make a difference - it did mine ;)

I think he's lovely :D
 
My horse of a similar type goes very well in a NS Tranz lozenge. However, as a green horse (read shopping trolley with wonky wheel) he had a french link fulmer snaffle as it just supported him steering wise whilst he was learning,

Thing to note is horses of this type often have short very strong necks that can get a bit 'set' and then 'stubby' to steer if that makes sense. Encourage a full neck by riding forward from seat and legs and relying less and less on the reins, train him to tune in to the lightest touch and signals from your seat. Also avoid just bringing his head and neck round, he should bend right through his body. As we have beach theme :p think of the impulsion as a wave rolling up from behind, it rolls up his neck and down over the front of his forehead, that way you will always ride forward. I'm starting to go on aren't I? :eek:

Lovely horse and that beach looks fab!

Also, agree your noseband is far too low, it will be pinching against the bit.
 
I think whats important to teach him what the bit actually means. its not just there for brakes and steering. Whenever you pick up the reins, he should soften his mouth instead of set against you. A lot of horses learn at an early stage to brace against the bit, either by incorrect training or strong hands. You want him to come off the pressure applied by the bit, not into it. This way it matters less what bit you use because he should be able to yeild off the pressure in any bit.

Im glad to see you dont have him in a flash, as this doesnt solve the problem.
As others have said, you dont want to be relying on the reins for balance, as this will cause him to resist and hollow.
 
OP. I think everyone has given you the main bits of advice - just wanted to say that if you are going to try a new bit for him it's worth looking at buying it from a bit bank as they give you a 30 day trial period during which time you can send it back or change ot for another one. It gives you chance to test drive them without having to buy loads fo different bits. Good Luck. Very jealous of the beach galloping!! :D
 
I'd agree with all the other posts but would add that some horses with fleshy lips are often better in a fixed ring bit (ie eggbutt or full cheek) as the loose rings can unintentionally nip. It also looks as if the bit has been pulled through his mouth on the top pic and a full cheek would help to prevent this and improve steering if that is an issue.
 
If a lozenge or french link don't help, it might be worth trying him in a Myler comfort snaffle.

Do you have any friends with huge bit collections who would lend you bits and help you to fit them etc..? ;)
 
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