Am I just a miserable dog walker? - warning rant!

[lexiedhb]

What I do not understand, is even if you have your (rather large) dog on a lead (because it is a rescue and you have not had him long), trying to walk in the other direction, but said dog is going ape (barking, whining, tugging etc) wanting to meet the other dog (you "think" all will be well but not 100% for reasons above), do other dog owners INSIST on making a b line straight for you- making getting your dogs attention impossible???

 

[Hedwards]

This has been a really interesting thread, that article posted was really insightful! Didn't think it'd get so many replies! Live a good debate, and nice to see I'm not the only one who doesn't like it - maybe I'm not so miserable after all!

 

[quirky]

But if they are on a lead under my strict control then No, i wouldnt mussle them. theres no need. If some twonk lets their dog get up in their faces then its a harsh lesson to learn but it wouldnt be my fault. Any dog is capable of biting or becoming aggressive.

A GSD owner round my way, about 6 years ago would always have his dog on a lead as he knew him to be aggressive with other dogs. He was okay with our GSP's, so he would let him run with ours if we were around.
Anyway, I digress. His dog 'scruffed' a Yorkshire Terrier and a Labrador. In both cases, the dogs needed vet treatment, the Lab was the worse of the two.

He was taken to court and we went as character witnesses for him and his dog. We took pictures of our dogs playing with his and also a short video.

It was to no avail, he was fined and ordered to keep his dog muzzled. The only reason he didn't have to have the dog destroyed was because the actions of others, ie. letting the dogs up to his when he had been responsible enough to lead his and also because the judge seemed to think if the dog could play with ours without incident, he wasn't out and out dangerous.

As an aside, my dog trainer has told me to carry a bottle of water in a squeezy bottle and if somebody approaches our dog when he is on the lead, I should ask them to call it off if they haven't already. She says if they don't call it off then give it a quick squirt. Not sure how owner of the now wet dog would react to that mind!

 

[Ignition]

It never used to bother me much as my dogs would either be happy to play or manage to sidle away if they didn't fancy it, dependent on the dog!

However, my old labrador bitch is now 14 with arthritic back legs. She loves to be driven down to the park for a toddle around, but i'm sick to death of people letting their dogs come bounding over and trying to play with her. They will jump all over her and she'll be dragged to the floor, as she's unsteady on her legs. I feel so sorry for her when this happens and nowadays I intercept any dog and drag them away. She has never been a sociable dog and has never welcomed attention, but nowadays she can't manage to get rid of them herself.

I don't care if it's just being playful, I want my old girl to be able to walk along next to me without being jumped on.

 

[galaxy]

As an aside, my dog trainer has told me to carry a bottle of water in a squeezy bottle and if somebody approaches our dog when he is on the lead, I should ask them to call it off if they haven't already. She says if they don't call it off then give it a quick squirt. Not sure how owner of the now wet dog would react to that mind!

I have a can of my pet corrector spray in my pocket for that very reason.

Mind you I haven't used it yet. Only had it the once when I needed it and I forgot and just put myself inbetween the dogs.

 

[gunnergundog]

It never used to bother me much as my dogs would either be happy to play or manage to sidle away if they didn't fancy it, dependent on the dog!

However, my old labrador bitch is now 14 with arthritic back legs. She loves to be driven down to the park for a toddle around, but i'm sick to death of people letting their dogs come bounding over and trying to play with her. They will jump all over her and she'll be dragged to the floor, as she's unsteady on her legs. I feel so sorry for her when this happens and nowadays I intercept any dog and drag them away. She has never been a sociable dog and has never welcomed attention, but nowadays she can't manage to get rid of them herself.

I don't care if it's just being playful, I want my old girl to be able to walk along next to me without being jumped on.[/QUOTE]

Hear hear!

 

[SusieT]

Someone with 6 badly behaved dogs letting them off the lead and 'oh well if they don't come back first time that child should be more tolerant/aggressive dog on a lead/injured dog on a lead/dog phobic person/frail Granny' etc is your attitude? Not responsible enough to have 6 dogs imo.
It's straightforward. If you want to let a badly behaved dog off the lead, find somewhere you can go where a lack of recall for the first time will not matter. Your dog. Your responsibility. Why can you not be tolerant of people who either don't want to interact with or cannot afford to be injured by your dog?
If you have a difficult to recall dog, all very well to say you have to test, but honestly, how much is testing and how much is just getting a bit blase about it? It will be a small minority of cases where something other than someone with their on lead dog etc. getting annoyed will happen but your job is to reduce those small minority.
Long lines and extendable leads exist. Use them (properly)

 

[SusieT]

PS-Why should my blind arthritic lab who has no interest in other dogs have to see them off when they attempt to jump all over her? Thankfully mos tpoeple take one look at my lot and call their dogs back..

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Tricky. I want the pups socialised and well-mannered so was reinforcing the no jump up thing with Bear today but an out of control pug x came leaping up at me and the dogs. I stood and shouted 'and where are the owners?' (fair weather walkers, never seen them before, photographing the bluebells). Dog luckily went away.

I'm a bt bored of this debate (sorry, OP, not you and not this thread). I'm sick of my brilliantly behaved dog being attacked and particularly sick of idiots who ignore me when I ask them to recall their dog (because Jake had two cruciate replacements, didn't want him jumped on by the same ruddy dog EVERY time ). Brig has been made fearful because of dogs leaping on him, no doubt exacerbated by my fear reaction.

I don't think it's rude or too much to ask that others recall their rude dog and if mine's on a lead, then ruddy well click on, I don't want yours leaping on him. Bored of hearing 'he's friendly, he won't hurt, he only wants to play' and a second later, my dog is screaming and being attacked.

 

[Pix]

I'm a bit on the fence with this one to be honest. I kept my dog on a lead because by 5-6 months he was fairly large, and being a GSD I'd been told by several people that it would be an unforgivable sin to have him loose and able to approach strangers and their dogs in any way. I wish I'd ignore the advice and carried on as I would with any other dog. All I've gotten for my trouble is a dog that can be randomly reactive on the lead because we were constantly mobbed by other loose dogs whilst out walking, and he was unable to move away or act as a dog normally would in that situation. So now he really does look like a monster and he bounces around growling on his lead 50% of the time if a dog gets too close (and I suffer the same kind of twisty woodland paths MissUnderstood does- they're very narrow, and visibility is rubbish).

So yes, I'd like it if dogs didn't approach my dog while he is on a lead. But in reality that doesn't happen and I've created a problem for my dog by keeping him on a lead rather than allowing him to work it out for himself, or work it out with the other dog, in a normal doggy way.

Off lead, he's fine, so long as I call him from unsuitable play mates and give him a time out if he's getting too over the top (he's about to hit one yr, we've got teenage issues ). He does have a tendency to approach too quickly. I'm aware this is rude and am quite happy for other (off-lead) dogs to tell him off. That will help him to learn. I'd never dream of branding the other dog aggressive and if the other owner should apologise for their dog's growls or snaps I'm always quick to tell them that it's to be expected and that MY dog is young, rude, and pushing his luck. Even if the other dog doesn't tell him off, it it reacts in anyway negatively (seems nervous, for example) then Loki doesn't get to play. He's removed and we walk on before he gets excited.

I'll do pretty much everything in my power to ensure he doesn't approach another dog if said dog is on a lead. Given that the paths around here are 2 foot wide at most that's nigh on impossible in some cases even when both dogs are on a lead (I personally feel two leashed dogs being marched up to each other, face to face, in such an enclosed space is a recipe for disaster, but that's another thread).

I would be devastated if, despite my best efforts, he approached any dog on a lead and had his throat ripped out as has been suggested Particularly when he was a young pup and was pretty good at forgetting his recall! I'm not infallible and neither is my dog after all, no matter how careful we are. To be honest if a dog is likely to do serious damage it should be muzzled in public, regardless of any scorn towards those of us with less than perfect dogs. Accidents do happen after all, and just because I am an imperfect dog owner and might make a mistake it doesn't mean that I need to have a dead dog to 'learn my lesson'.

I am with JSR in a way. I do think people on the whole need to relax a little. Obviously it's a big no no to allow your dog to approach a dog on a lead as that's a general signal to other owners that the dog in question isn't friendly. However, mistakes will be made. I suspect the owners that ignore this rule are probably a minority, and that owners with seriously aggressive dogs are a similar minority (to clarify, I'd describe real aggression as causing real harm- lot's of noise and using your weight is a telling off/play/bullying depending on the circs). Dogs on the whole can sort things out for themselves (albeit often in a noisy 'scary looking' way). Fair enough if one dog is nervous and being intimidated... then owners need to get involved. But for general breaking of social contract then they tend to be pretty adept and getting it sorted, and fast.

If a dog is off lead I usually assume the owner doesn't mind it socializing with other dogs. Otherwise it would be on a lead to let others know they do mind? I'd be happy to allow Loki to approach but quick to remove him if I thought his behaviour was offensive to the dog in question.

It's a bit of a mess really, and you can't win. You're told to socialize your pup, then you're told not to allow it to ever approach another dog ever, then you have it on a lead and other barge past/run up to it and it gets awkward on a lead, then it has to learn how to mix with other dogs off lead and learn what is acceptable but you can't do that because you're not allowed to let your dog near other people's dogs.... Your dog should walk past other dogs ignoring them, but you still have a young dog that wants to bounce over to other dogs and introduce himself and try to initiate a play session... Which would be good, because they'd either play or he'd get told to eff off, and he'd learn something and improve his social skills, but that isn't allowed because the other dogs owners don't like their dogs to exercise their right to say 'eff off now, brat'. Now you have a dog that wants contact with other dogs but it's not allowed, so he becomes offensive in his frustration to socialize and ignores the 'not interested' signals of older, calmer dogs.

It's all just a nasty headache. I'm starting to think me and Loki should just stay at home

 

[CAYLA]

I think alot of people are missing what the OP said "the woman was shouting, he is a baby he just wants to play" whilst the dog was bounding all over her and her dog! IMO this is sheer ignorance (I would have reprimanded the dog myself Im affraid). It's a totally different scenario to someone making (all effort) to get their dog back!
My lot can be left off lead and most will ignore the other dog the rest will happily engage in paly, the other day we bumped inot a fella with a very cute border terrier and puppy whippet who where very excited to see our dogs (they even joined in with running for the frizbee) this I don't mind, my lot will mingle fine.
I place mine on lead if I see someone grappling to put theres on or walk a little further out to make sure none of mine go to them, I can recall mine, (even if some) *coughs* tia, takes a firm "here now" she always comes to call.
I can even recall bubba when a dog is making a bee line for her and she is peace it's own self and will ignore the world unless they are in her face and goading her, then indeed your dogs face will be disfigured (I wont muzzle her) for defending herself, I will recall her if I see an owner having probelms recalling their dog, but if said person is being a dick and making no attempt to get their dog back then sorry, it takes it chances with the dogs it proceeds to try and fight. She will pretty much ignore daft young pups or dogs just sniffing around her, but trying to mount or fight her (well, good luck)
If dogs wher bouling my old/small dog over then sorry it's gonna be me that steps in and gives them what for (by whatever means I see fit).

 

[CAYLA]

See if I bumped into the likes of Spudlet and henry (I would hide my sandwiches) seriously though, I would see you trying to recall henry and would recall bubba, because I can see you actively trying to get him, the rest would just sniff him then ignore him (bubba would too) if he literally just approached and sniffed her.
Same for Loki (a few of mine would have a good rough and tumble with him) and bubba would ignore him to an extent, I would recall her if his behaviour was gonna get him wrong esp if I could see you where trying to recall him, but the wifey in the OP's post sounds like a full on annoying "dolly day dream" who knows the dog is a pest but does not care, instead she used the "he is a baby and wants to play" for her own laziness to even try some training with the dog.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Pix, unfortunately with breeds like GSDs you do find you have to err on the side of caution, cos if anything goes wrong the GSD will always get the blame. Like you I have always kept my youngsters on lead when around other dogs unless I know the temperament of the others, it only takes a perfectly justified reaction from a shepherd for some people to run screaming to the authorities.

 

[Spudlet]

See if I bumped into the likes of Spudlet and henry (I would hide my sandwiches)

^ Hmph


TBH, if the first recall fails miserably I won't try again as I know he has made his mind up and is off for a sniff, and there's no point in reinforcing failure - so I go and get him instead

He's been much better recently though, maybe he has actually learnt something?! Also, he has been firmly disciplined by my mate's spaniel (he deserved it too, he tried to nick a dead bird off Echo and Echo wasn't having it) so I think he is starting to realise that he needs to mind his manners

 

[Hedwards]

Thank-you Cayla! I would love to repremand as i see fit, however i dont believe i'm experienced enough to do this, therefore i try and become a human wall for Millie instead, while sometimes firing my evilist eyes at the oblivious owner (although a friend of mine did once tell me i looked more constipated than evil!).

Spudlet - I hope you can now see that you are really not the type of dog owner this post was aimed at! I think what you've been doing/have done with Henry is brilliant and a bit of an inspiration for someone who is currently looking for a rescue dog (I am by the way)!

 

[shadowboy]

I hate it when people dont recall their dog if I recall mine- she is grumpy with other bitches and if they dont recall theirs I end up doing a stupid dance on one leg trying to field theirs away so Tassy cant try and be bolshy and dominant to them (she never bites but does try to over dominate) BUT she could bite and she's huge- once a woman with a JRT let her dog run between Tassy's feet and if it wasnt so small and lyth I think Tassy may well have gone for it.

If they make an effort to collect their dog then cool- if not then they shouldnt let it off but rather long line it. Cause it'll end up me forking out the bill if their beloved monkey gets eaten by my beast on a lead.....

 

[NOISYGIRL]

Its easy to say that, but for people with dogs who arent that keen on other dogs jumping all over them it can be a huge issue.

We have a young, quite badly socialised large cross breed at the moment that im really trying to turn around (shes doing really well) and it can be quite frightening when irresponsible owners allow their dogs to charge up to her. She is part mastiff and there would be uproar if she crushed a dogs throat in her jaws, which is entirely possible.

Luckily she isnt aggressive, just nervous. But i do have a spaniel which is a nasty nasty peice of work when she wants to be, and i have had to literally sit on her with my hands around her muzzle whilst some completely ignorant dog walker lets their (another) labrador crawl all over her.

They call out ''oh dont worry-he's fine with other dogs''.... well ine isnt and if you still want a dog in two minutes you best call it back!!!

But from the other side of the coin, should you be walking a dog you know is aggressive in a place where you know other dogs will be, I know you can't control when a dog will come round the corner, just saying there is your issue and then someone would have a problem with an aggressive dog, just putting both sides forward to the debate

 

[Hedwards]

noisygirl - i see your point, but whether the other dog is possibly aggressive or not, no one (from my personal point of view) should ever let their dog climb all over any unknown/strange dog - and thats the point here really - you never know how a dog will react no matter how well you know the dog.

 

[ThePinkPony]

But from the other side of the coin, should you be walking a dog you know is aggressive in a place where you know other dogs will be, I know you can't control when a dog will come round the corner, just saying there is your issue and then someone would have a problem with an aggressive dog, just putting both sides forward to the debate

When the labrador incident occurred, we were in a hedged feild with no footpaths and a walker decided it was his god given right to walk wherever he wanted.

We got the 'oh he only wants to play bless him''. OH had to give him a massive dressing down about the fact that not only was he trespassing on private land and nowhere near a footpath, but he was he was trespassing near a release pen full of poults and if this certain lab decided he wanted to play with the poults then OH would be within his rights to shoot the dog, (he never would, unless it was reoccurring or doing massive damage) but thats the reality, the same way a farmer could take action if it decided to play with his lambs (farmer definitely would), and that he needed to understand the only one coming off badly from his neglegence would be his beloved dog.

And i wouldnt muzzle G, she wouldnt attack another dog whilst in my care unless said dog was right up in her face. And for another reason that i have actually seen a fight between a muzzled and an unmuzzled dog and if that did occur then i would want G to be able to defend herself.

Luckily we dont have to walk the dogs near people, usually they get taken out with the quad, running after it for a mile or two, BUT we still manage to find people with uncontrolled dogs half a mile away from the owners and dogs do not understand this fence means you cant go there!

 

[georgie0]

I feel for you OP; i have 3 dogs, a greyhound (NEVER off lead!), a bull lurcher (goes off lead) and a terrier of the small and fluffy kind. The issue i have is with the terrier as she looks off the charts adorable, and for the most part is a wonderful dog. BUT she is not fantastic with other dogs, is very protective of her 'pack' and as she looks cute people tend to assume she will be find to be bounded up to. The lurcher is lovely but can be slightly nervy with unpredictable dogs and is basically a big wuss. I have no problem with them playing with other dogs but i ALWAYS check first if people are happy and i expect people to do the same out of good manners.
Ah, also REALLY irritating is the theory 'oh, its small, cute and fluffy, i'll let my small child maul it around'. Not all dogs are used to children and this does wind me up! I think children should have 10 didgits.
oh, she is ALWAYS on the lead. Trying to find her in long grass is a nightmare!

 

[ThePinkPony]

OH GOD!!!

Dont get me started on parents who havent taught their child to ask before they touch a dog!!!

Or the worse ones that ENCOURAGE their child to bother a dog. Especially the ones that throw their arms around its neck with their pretty little faces millimetres away from the canines canines!

 

[NOISYGIRL]

noisygirl - i see your point, but whether the other dog is possibly aggressive or not, no one (from my personal point of view) should ever let their dog climb all over any unknown/strange dog - and thats the point here really - you never know how a dog will react no matter how well you know the dog.

I agree with you, I was just saying what could be thought the other way around.

My dog (springer) loves people, children, everyone really, except for some reason can be a bit funny on the lead, fine off the lead, can't explain it, some dogs she just doen't like, don't know why. I had a lovely flat coat black retriever approach us on a walk the other day and she was fine with him, doesn't matter if its a dog or a bitch, if she doesn't like it she doesn't like it. There's a lady lives in my street with a bull type dog, bitch, they don't like each other, but we've never let them get close enough to find out, maybe my dog picks up that I'm afraid of something happening. I do see a difference if I'm relaxed, sometimes if people let their dogs approach I think oh well, they can see she's on a lead, I then relax and she's ok, if they approach and I have tension on the lead she reacts it seems, we are working on it. If I see someone coming I go behind a parked car to distract her. If its unavoidable we meet I usually hold her collar but dont' know if that contributes sometimes. She will sit quietly but if the other dog starts she will retaliate.

If we are down the park or in the woods and she's off lead she's fantastic, she can meet other dogs on the lead and is fine, I htink its when you meet them like on a cyle path and they are approaching in a straight line towards you, she starts to stalk as they approach then when they meet she can either be fine or barks, its hart to interpret if its a bark I wanna play or a I hate you, she wags her tail (well her stump) constantly.

There's a husky we've met since he was a 12 week old puppy, he is massive now, but is excitable on approach, she barks at him now, but is ok if they are allowed to meet. Woman has the husky attached to the pushchair (not a good idea IMO) its VERY strong and an accident waiting to happen considering how bouncy it gets meeting other dogs ! Nothing wrong with the dog just the fact he's so strong and a pushchair would be nothing to him considering they are supposed to pull a sledge

 

[NOISYGIRL]

OH GOD!!!

Dont get me started on parents who havent taught their child to ask before they touch a dog!!!

Or the worse ones that ENCOURAGE their child to bother a dog. Especially the ones that throw their arms around its neck with their pretty little faces millimetres away from the canines canines!

Yes I was taught this from a young age, there was a dog that was left out to roaom in our street, kids playing, we all knew she bit so kept away from her, even though I don't think she should have been let out unattended at all. There was a man who had a GSD, I used to ask him EVERY time I saw him if it was ok to stoak Wendy, he used to say yes and I'd pet her carefully, but I would always ask, I used to think it was great smoothing a GSD, hence we had one when I got married and he was beautiful, sadly died at 6 1/2, enlarged heart and spleen.

 

[Sanolly]

But from the other side of the coin, should you be walking a dog you know is aggressive in a place where you know other dogs will be, I know you can't control when a dog will come round the corner, just saying there is your issue and then someone would have a problem with an aggressive dog, just putting both sides forward to the debate

So you have a dog which has a problem with other dogs, You do the RESPONSIBLE thing and keep it on a lead and under control. Then some other idiot comes along with THEIR OUT OF CONTROL DOG which barges up to yours and YOU are in the wrong?!?!?!!!
Why can't people take responsibility for their own actions? Again with a child analogy if you child was running amok in a shop and someone complained would you tell them they shouldn't be there?! People like you really cheese me off

ETA: I have a friend with a dog aggressive GSD. Why is it dog aggressive? Because some idiot allowed their out of control dog to jump all over her as a puppy. Now her attitude is "I'll get you before you get me", my friend is working damn hard to get her dog back to the way she was before this incident and Every. Single. Time some moron allows their dog just to run up to a GSD who is on the lead AND muzzled her training goes back to square one. But then of the course even though she is a responsible dog owner she has an aggressive dog so shouldn't be out

 

[unicornleather]

But from the other side of the coin, should you be walking a dog you know is aggressive in a place where you know other dogs will be, I know you can't control when a dog will come round the corner, just saying there is your issue and then someone would have a problem with an aggressive dog, just putting both sides forward to the debate

HOW is this day and age and over crowded country we live in can you find ANYWHERE at any time of day or night that hasn't got any other dog walkers, walkers, kids, cyclists etc??
Unless you are lucky enough to own land of your own that has very good fencing as they still stroll across it even if it's private, you can't!

 

[NOISYGIRL]

Woah ! whats with all the Noisygirl hating !

I agree with OP, I was just saying what someone else might say thats all, its not what I think !

Thats why my dog is funny on the lead, when I first got her, I approached a man and a dog, and he said oh he's fine with other dogs then proceeded to launch at my dog beared teeth and all, which is why sometimes she thinks she should get in there first. It happened a few times where she was attacked by other dogs, I think thats why she does it, more defence than aggresive if you get me.

I'll remember my fire proof suit next time :-( gees

 

[Jake10]

I agree about how after teaching dogs to be social they rarely get to interact with each other. Why can't we have dog park type things so they can socialise in an enclosed environment off lead. My dogs would love it.

 

[Cedars]

Can see both sides. But I think if your dog is on the lead because it's aggressive, it should have a muzzle on. I sometimes cannot make Chloe come back no matter how hard I've tried, and its one of those things. I also shout something like she only wants to play so they don't think they're about to be attacked.

 

[blackcob]

I agree about how after teaching dogs to be social they rarely get to interact with each other. Why can't we have dog park type things so they can socialise in an enclosed environment off lead. My dogs would love it.

I agree. Would make socialisation a hundred times easier, no mixed messages from on-leash/off-leash, the crazy ones can hoon together and knacker each other out, might even solve some dog fouling issues too (i.e, a decent majority of poop happens within the confines of the dog park rather than the public park, bags and bins provided at entrance and exit). I would pay a considerable sum of money to have access to those kind of facilities.

FWIW my dog is always on a lead, though often a very very long one. If we're approaching a dog and the owner calls them in and puts them on a lead, I reel mine in also and pass on a short lead. If the dog remains off lead and the owner isn't screeching not to approach, I assume all is well to let mine approach, have a sniff, stop to exchange pleasantries with the owner and move on. If the owner throws his dog over a barbed wire fence and climbs over himself to avoid us on a narrow path, I roll my eyes and tell him he's being ridiculous.

Vaguely on this topic, I read in our parish magazine recently that our town council is lobbying to introduce dog control orders - anyone know what that might result in? They don't seem to have specified any particular concerns and there certainly haven't been any problems with dogs in the area.

 

[ThePinkPony]

Can see both sides. But I think if your dog is on the lead because it's aggressive, it should have a muzzle on. I sometimes cannot make Chloe come back no matter how hard I've tried, and its one of those things. I also shout something like she only wants to play so they don't think they're about to be attacked.

Um, surely common sense is dont let her off the lead... Its not just other dogs that can hurt her, Cars quad bikes in fields, horses, cows (cows can kill dogs just as horses can) children playing? you've worked with kids.. what if one of them got mauled by a dog (not necessarily bitten, the inside of my ear was spilt open by my bull crosses foot last week, purely accidental but can you imagine if your ''chloe'' pounced on a small child the damage that she could inflict with their paws)

That is the worst excuse of all and makes me so angry, Your dog wont come back (therefore is uncontrollable) but I should be the one taking precautions for your recklessness????? Buy a long line and be RESPONSIBLE!!!!

THIS is the reason i dont take G out in public.