Am I Looking a Gift Horse in the Mouth - Advice Needed

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01100001

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Okay a bit of background on me first :)
I consider myself fairly experience. I have started and ridden away two horses, though they both were fairly simple lads. I led out trail rides for a trekking company for two summers. Ridden a few quirky horses to bring them on a bit. Basically i've done a bit of everything but wouldn't say i am experienced experienced ;).
I haven't ridden much in the past two years though as my own lads retired due to a old underlying injury that took so long to track down ( He being a very quirky project horse i got to bring on, we did get to the root of his troubles thankfully :))

Anyway, two years on I am in the situation where i can take on another :D, and my main requirement, is sanity - surprisingly hard to find :p.
I have found this wonderful 11 year old cob, whose a wee bit small for me but is built like a tank. I have been to see him twice but keep coming away with difficulty evaluating him as he has only been on that yard for about 10 days. He came from Lewis to a local schooler/breaker to sell. My main plan is just happy hacking, so the ability to go out by himself is essential. At the schoolers yard there is awful hacking though, only option is going down a very spooky lane and onto another road. I have taken him along that and he goes well considering, a bit looky at things. He refused to go forwards at one really scary spot (Screaming pigs in a barn) but i hopped off and walked him past and he was happy. But all along i feel he is quite strong, not like he is going to bolt, just unsure of himself and that he wants to move faster than a walk. He kept trying to jog so i was constantly half halting him. Once in the school he seems so much more sure of himself and is a lovely ride. So i wonder if that not just him being unsure of his surroundings and his rider ?

I won't lie , i lost a lot of my confidence on my retired boy. Things got worse and worse until we got another vet out to just have another check of him and she spotted a pelvic injury almost immediately.

So i am really looking for something that I can gain a bit of confidence and is simple.
In Summary:
He's lovely considering he's only been on the yard 10 days.
But he's quite unsure of himself and strong/forward going - But this change and he settles into an environment and we get to know each other ... but how much ...
Its so hard to know how a horse will be once they are settled in a place.
Easter Eggs to anyone that got this far :D
 
If it's a dealer you've got fairly good consumer rights (check these out). Have you googled the dealer and found out if they are dodgy or ok?

When you say he's a bit small is he really, is this going to rankle you in the future. Will it stop you doing stuff say you decide you want to do more than hack?

Also is he priced well enough that you can easily punt on if he's not for you? Safe cobs are easily found so don't rush into this one if you don't think it's 100%
 
Well firstly he does not sound as if he is being "gifted" to you so as you are paying if you have reservations plus he is smaller than ideal I would say keep looking, yes he may settle in well but equally I would want to know more about his background and why an 11 year old cob is at a breaking/ schooling yard to sell.
I take sales liveries and would expect an 11 year old to be well established and confident from day 1 here even if it required some polishing up to sell in which case I would not be showing it to potential buyers for a couple of weeks to get it at it's best, hacking sensibly and safely is a priority for many people if they are not doing that in the first day or two I would class them as a project, different for a younger or more sporty type where I am more forgiving if they are not so sensible.
 
If you mainly want to hack buy a horse whose hacking is good .
I bought a horse once who was slightly too small it bugged me for the rest of the horses life .
The market is full of lovely horses who are not the right one for you .
A lovely horse is not necessarily the right horse .
 
I think if you're having enough doubts to post on here then keep looking. Gut feelings are our subconcious picking up on things - & your gut isn't telling you 100% this horse is for you.

My current mare was a freebie project. Now we have diagnosed her health issues they can be worked with, but if she can't do what I want then I already have a budget to one side for something that has already proven they are sane!
 
I would guess that they would not have had many people willing to travel to them to try him so sent him to the yard you tried him at. also that he would possibly not have seen as much as a horse kept on the mainland as it may be a bit quieter there. he probably feels more secure in the arena because they have mostly ridden him in there rather than take him down the lane. would they be willing to let you have him on a trial there or would they take him out hacking more so that you can get a better idea of what he would be like when he is more confident and be able to try him out somewhere suitable to give him a canter and then see if he really is strong or if it is just lack of confidence?
 
Thank you all for the replies :)

FfionWinnie said:
If it's a dealer you've got fairly good consumer rights (check these out). Have you googled the dealer and found out if they are dodgy or ok?
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No, not a dealer :). She's a well respected competitive rider who does breaking and reschooling/schooling. Cob is there as he wouldn't sell from Lewis and the owner was sending her youngster down to the schooling yard to be started so she sent Cob along with the youngster.
From the history i got, the owner in Lewis has only had him for two years. Before that he was in a pony trekking place around Perth for a few months and no more history after that. They think he came from a dealers in Ireland. So he has been passed about a lot...

FfionWinnie said:
When you say he's a bit small is he really, is this going to rankle you in the future. Will it stop you doing stuff say you decide you want to do more than hack?
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I am 5ft 10ish and he's only 14.3hh but honestly i look better on him than i do on 16hh warmbloods, he really takes up my leg :D. I am not really wanting to do anything serious, a local show would be the most. I am fairly light at 60kg so i no problem weight wise for Cob.

FfionWinnie said:
Also is he priced well enough that you can easily punt on if he's not for you? Safe cobs are easily found so don't rush into this one if you don't think it's 100%
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Well i forgot to mention the price/budget which is a big factor. My ideal budget is £2000 (but have more in reserves if i find an angel of a horse :D) Cob is £2500 including tack, if i went for him i would put an offer in at £2250 to cover the vetting. I know my budget is way low for what i am asking for, with budget i expect to find something young/green, but sane, or a little older.

I take sales liveries and would expect an 11 year old to be well established and confident from day 1 here even if it required some polishing up to sell in which case I would not be showing it to potential buyers for a couple of weeks to get it at it's best, hacking sensibly and safely is a priority for many people if they are not doing that in the first day or two I would class them as a project, different for a younger or more sporty type where I am more forgiving if they are not so sensible.
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That's really helpful to know. Honestly i have mostly dealt with younger or green horses so i've lost a good yard stick for what's expected of an older horse. I have a suspicion that the money from selling Cob goes to the schooler/breaker to start Cobs owners youngster.
 
Drop me a pm and tell me where you are and where the horse was in Perth and is now, if you want. I might be able to help both with this horse's background and with an even better alternative solution for you!
 
01100001 said:
From the history i got, the owner in Lewis has only had him for two years. Before that he was in a pony trekking place around Perth for a few months and no more history after that. They think he came from a dealers in Ireland. So he has been passed about a lot...
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If he has been passed around a lot, you need to ask yourself why; if he was a safe hack, why would a trekking centre only keep him a few months? What has previous owner been doing with him the two years she has had him?

I suppose there's no harm in asking for a second viewing, but there's no point in rushing into a purchase if you're not 100% sure it's the right horse. You could always wait a few months and build the budget up a bit - you're more likely to find a bargain later into the year when the prospect of winter is hanging over everyone's heads.
 
He sounds quite a lot like my lad, who had also been passed around a lot and was ten when I bought him. My confidence was low and his default setting of speeding up was not easy to deal with. It has taken nearly five years for me to build up sufficient confidence for us both and we now have mutual trust BUT I have needed the help of friends and some mega brave pants to make it this far.

He worries about everything and needs a confident rider to be confident himself. If I take up too much contact, he is instantly back to rushing and leaning on my hands and that has been the hardest thing to counter, until I rediscovered a bit of confidence - a complete vicious circle really.

So my advice would be that, if you really want him, be prepared to work hard to build your confidence up. If you need a horse to give you confidence, don't buy him.

I would not be without my horse and love his bones but it has been a challenge along the way. On the other hand, I am extremely pleased with the way we have developed a working relationship and how different he is now to when I bought him, even though we still have some way to go! :)
 
From what you've described he doesn't sound like a gift horse at all for £2500 you could a really nice young cob without any real issues. (appreciate tack is included but it's basically useless to owner isn't it?).

Is a strong, joggy, spooky tank of a horse really going to give you confidence?
 
If I were looking for a bombproof hack, I would take the horse hacking. From your description of his behaviour, he doesn't jump out as being a steady hack for you. Of course I could be wrong, but if your confidence is fragile you must be able to test the things you need.
 
benz said:
From what you've described he doesn't sound like a gift horse at all for £2500 you could a really nice young cob without any real issues. (appreciate tack is included but it's basically useless to owner isn't it?).

Is a strong, joggy, spooky tank of a horse really going to give you confidence?
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Yes, I should have made it clearer that my horse was considerable cheaper (and bigger) and I knew I had the skills, if not the confidence, to succeed with him. The key factor was discussing him and others with my instructor (who came on viewings with me and also rode my various options) who, when I was dithering, said "at least you won't be bored with him in six months". She was right in my case but I can't emphasise enough how much work I've had to put in to overcome the confidence issues and make progress. Only you know how much your confidence is an issue but there are easier paths to take.
 
Honestly, he doesn't sounds like the right horse for you. A strong cob once it becomes sure of itself/surrounding is far more likely dissolve your confidence than build it - I've seen too many people take a seemingly quiet cob from a selling yard only to get it home and properly settled in to find they are trampled all over by it. Also I think he's too small - I'm also 5'10" and owned a 14.3hh for many years - he was a barrel and took up a lot of leg but he was too small on reflection. In your position I would be looking for a big native with a known history - a Highland would be a good option if you can find one in budget.
 
You are already a bit nervous of him - having to hop off to lead past something means you at trial are already not fulfilling your aim of haivng a horse who will go on his own - I would absoloutely not buy him - you are asking for disaster.
 
Thanks to everyone for the advice :)
Have said i am no longer interested to the seller.

You are already a bit nervous of him - having to hop off to lead past something means you at trial are already not fulfilling your aim of haivng a horse who will go on his own - I would absoloutely not buy him - you are asking for disaster.
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I only hopped off him as the schooler/seller lady said he had had a bad spook at the point the previous day, and it seemed the best way for him to gain confidence at that spot. Had no trouble on the way back at the same spot.

I know i could and i have the confidence to deal with his strong/forwardness. But i have done enough of "working" or progressing with horses for several lifetimes :D and i am really looking for something that just knows its job and i don't have to worry about :).

If anyone knows of a steady eddy around the highlands of scotland do let me know :D

Thanks again everyone :)
 
Doesn't sound like the right horse for you from what you've said. I'd keep looking. I think you 'know' when you've found the right one.
 
FfionWinnie said:
Safe cobs are easily found so don't rush into this one if you don't think it's 100%
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Really??? Damme, I can't find one of the bleddi things anywhere!!

This cob sounds lovely, but are you going to be happy with him long-term? You say he is a "bit small"; that might be OK now, but in the future are you going to want something a bit bigger?

The strong/forward going issue might be an intrinsic part of his nature; my cob I would describe as forward-going, but doesn't jog, which can be VERY annoying, and VERY uncomfortable too.

What bit is this cob ridden in? Sometimes with cobs, if they haven't been taught to go forward from the leg, they will get too forward in the movement and become heavy in the hand and start pulling, their bodyweight unfortunately can tend to work against them and really the only "cure" is to go back into the school and work on their way of going. There may be a little work to do - perhaps a different bit and/or martingale (tho' I am not a fan of chucking strong metal in the mouth for the sake of it, or or placing straps and leather everywhere), but he sounds a decent type and it shouldn't be impossible for him to be improved - how old is he?

If I could find a horse that would hack politely, going solo, with a strange rider up top, down a "spooky" road past some screaming piggies, I'd think I'd found something at least half decent!!

I'd die for a nice little cob like this!! Is he priced reasonably? How old? Is tack included? Would a bit of good schooling from a professional "sort" him??

Think you would benefit from someone who knows you, and the way you ride, to take an honest look at you with this cob, and ask them to be brutally honest and assess the situation. I sense that you like this cob, but (a) have doubts about his size (a bit small?); (b) he jogs - very annoying, and a tricky habit to break once established; and (c) he may be feeling a little bit more forward in the bridle than you are currently happy with, and you have a niggling fear that at some future point he may tank off with you??? Which is why you need an independent opinion.

Your key word is "confident"........ you have to ask yourself, will you be "confident" on this horse in ANY situation you may find yourself with him in the future? So you need to ride him solo, yes; but also do some faster work, in company, and/or open space - and see how you feel on him then.
 
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Not read all the replies but just wanted to say that even after owning my horse for nearly 10 years, it still bugs me that he is slightly too small!
 
asmp said:
Not read all the replies but just wanted to say that even after owning my horse for nearly 10 years, it still bugs me that he is slightly too small!
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I had mine 19 years and loved him dearly despite his stubby legs and the fact a good 10" of my legs hung below his belly. As a re action I bought a 17.3hh after he died, that tried to cripple me and I've settled with 15.3hh which is perfect for me.
 
FfionWinnie said:
I have the perfect safe fun forward but never stupid hacking cob available right now to the right rider. So I would say they are easy found!
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OP, if FfionWinnie is talking about Daisy here then you'd be best to bite her hand off. I don't think you could find a safer hack.

I rode her out for the first time in a bareback pad and felt as safe as houses on her. She's a wonderful mare with bags of character and is honestly as bombproof as they come. She'll go anywhere and do anything - total supercob through and through.
 
Mongoose11 said:
OP, if FfionWinnie is talking about Daisy here then you'd be best to bite her hand off. I don't think you could find a safer hack.

I rode her out for the first time in a bareback pad and felt as safe as houses on her. She's a wonderful mare with bags of character and is honestly as bombproof as they come. She'll go anywhere and do anything - total supercob through and through.
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She does sound perfect, i wasn't looking at a gift horse before but i certainly am now :D
 
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