Am I mad to try and get/keep this horse in work?

DD265

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Sorry this is very long :(

2007 - 15yo horse suddenly becomes reluctant to work.
2008 - diagnosed and medicated for arthritis in coffin joints and hocks. Not successful if I'm honest, never truly got back into proper happy work.
2010 - diagnosed with arthritis in spine and wobblers after presenting moderately ataxic following a fall when stood on yard.
2013 - no longer appears ataxic, doing some light riding. Again never really get going. Persevere with periods in/out of light work.
2014 - October - fall to knees coming down bridleway for no apparent reason. Rider (me) has concussion for 2 weeks. December - slips on black ice (my fault :( ) and does the splits. Thought we were going to lose him.
2016 - Spring - doing really well. Hacking out up to 2 hours in walk, a little trot. New saddle (old one too long) = brilliant movement and ready to try some canter. June - reluctance kicks in again = time off. Got vet out = time for long term bute. Also SCENAR which seriously works wonders. Back in work end of July - 2nd short hack and he falls. I wasn't on him this time.

This last fall is the one that's getting me. It was downhill back to the yard and he was rushing. He'd been happy to go out but napping to grass (as opposed to not wanting to go at all) and had a great active walk. I've been thinking that he "broke" in June because I'd been asking him to slow a lot going downhill and he found this very hard. So the plan was let him lengthen and go downhill, whether I stay on or dismount. As he was pulling like a steam train, I stopped him on the road just above the bridleway and dismounted. He wasn't stood well and when we went to walk on, he left a foreleg behind and ended up on the floor. He got up as fast as he went down. No cuts (thank god for knee boots) and I had to run down the bridleway to keep up with his walk, i.e. he seemed quite OK. The impact did go up into his shoulders/back however = more SCENAR.

I am torn over his future. As a 24yo he's bright and happy and comfortable in the field (although I want to try him off the Bute as I'm not convinced it's making a difference). I would so love to ride him again BUT I am starting to think it's not worth the risk. If I'd been on him for this last fall I think it could have been the worst yet for me. I know that there is a risk when you ride any horse but I feel like I'm just waiting for the next silly fall and therefore he isn't safe to be on through no fault of his own. I don't think simply schooling in the arena is an option and we have no access to any other flat land to ride on.

The other thing is that I'm not comfortable financially. I'm meeting bills etc but I've no wriggle room and spending all the extra money is a struggle. If I retired him then as awful as it sounds, I shouldn't need to pour as much into keeping him 100% as I do if I'm riding. Don't get me wrong he's not going to suffer, but in theory the ridden work is aggravating issues so if he's not being ridden he should only need maintenance treatments.

A large part of me is ready to put him to sleep - both head and heart - but I don't think vet and YO are on the same page. I know it'd be sad and that I'd miss him but I can't help but feel like it would be a relief. I've given careful consideration to retirement livery/loaning as a companion and I'm not open to either suggestion. I don't feel like my situation allows me to do any more; I'd need a lottery win and we all know how likely those are. He won't be replaced; I'll be done with horses then for the foreseeable future.

I'm thinking that if I start selling our tack and gear, this will alleviate some of the immediate financial pressure and hopefully the PTS thoughts will then go away for a bit. Once the gear is gone though that's it, I'm not in a position to replace it. I think I know the answer but some unbiased views would definitely help.

I can offer Pimms and ice cream to anybody who read through all that.
 

ihatework

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I'm sorry but this doesn't sound like a horse I'd be looking to continue riding.

So it would either be PTS or retirement. Neither would be the wrong option, go with your gut and do what's right for you and your horse.

I'm not convinced debating these issues with the vet or YO are always necessarily constructive - although it does slightly depend on the relationship you have with them.
 

spacefaer

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If he has arthritis in his hocks, he will find going down hill very uncomfortable, even more so if you are asking him to go down slowly.

I would call it a day in trying to ride him - he's had a long time being broken/fixed and I would give him an honourable retirement.
 

Luci07

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Your horse, your money, your obligation. I am not sure I would want to risk it tbh - you are your greatest asset and should protect yourself.

so maybe retire him, put him on something devils claw rather than bute, give him till the end of the summer and see a: how you feel b: how your finances are.

There is nothing shameful about saying enough is enough and your priorities are taking care of yourself. Your horse is not a young horse with a career in front of him and you owe him nothing. PTS is preferable to him going somewhere else and out of your control at this stage of his life. Good luck with your decision
 

9tails

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He's 24 and no longer wants/able to work, give him a retirement. That can be short or long, the horse won't know. And don't discus it with anybody that isn't paying the bills.
 

Casey76

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I wouldn't ride a horse that randomly falls over, even if the circumstances/footing etc can explain it, especially since this last time he wasn't being ridden.

I know it's easy for me to say, being an outsider; but I would let him have the summer with the sun on his back, and let him go before the weather turns and he starts needing to cope with mud and cold.
 

ljohnsonsj

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I wouldn't ride a horse that randomly falls over, even if the circumstances/footing etc can explain it, especially since this last time he wasn't being ridden.

I know it's easy for me to say, being an outsider; but I would let him have the summer with the sun on his back, and let him go before the weather turns and he starts needing to cope with mud and cold.

Agree 100% With this.
 

DD265

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Thank you all. I know we may not always like what gets said on here, but I know I can always count on the folks here to be honest.

You're all reaffirming what I know in my head and heart.
 

atropa

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Sorry to say but no, I would not be trying to keep this horse in ridden work. Personally, I'd keep him as a retired field pet, but if your finances don't allow this then there is no shame in having him PTS. You have obviously spend quite a lot of time, money and effort already into trying to get him sound. It's absolutely none of the vet or YOs business what you choose to do with your own horse.
 

SpringArising

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I know it's easy for me to say, being an outsider; but I would let him have the summer with the sun on his back, and let him go before the weather turns and he starts needing to cope with mud and cold.

This definitely.

Why are you even considering riding him given all the falls he's had and the other issues? It comes across like you're not actually thinking much about the horse's welfare at all.
 

DD265

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Personally I wouldn't keep riding this horse but what does your vet say?

The vet said to see how the bute went but this was a couple of weeks before the latest fall so we didn't really discuss falls in great detail. Before this fall we were really dealing with nappy behaviour and reluctance to stride out, plus he likes to lengthen and increase speed to go down hill.

Unfortunately from the issues in my first post we've seen about 5 different vets including a couple at Leahurst but I really rated the most recent one who came out. He gave sound advice and I don't think he'd disagree with a decision to retire.

This definitely.

Why are you even considering riding him given all the falls he's had and the other issues? It comes across like you're not actually thinking much about the horse's welfare at all.

When he has been well in between the various issues he enjoys being out and about. My hope was that he'd be able to hack and I could find somebody to ride him over winter (as my commute doesn't allow me to see him during daylight hours) to see that he got a better amount of movement than we can manage otherwise. Clearly that isn't the case now but for a while there things were looking very hopeful.
 
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Cortez

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Goodness gracious, who on earth would even contemplate riding a 24 year old horse with arthritis that keeps falling over? Give him a dignified end and make sure he's not in pain in the meantime.
 

Theocat

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The horse hasn't been right for nine years - i'd suggest it isn't going to come right.

Totally understand the financial worry. Retire him, self off your kit, and be ready to call it a day just as soon as he needs it - and don't be hard on yourself: it would be both practical and humane to give a short retirement.
 

GoldenWillow

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Having been injured when my horse fell on me in walk out hacking with his history I wouldn't be riding him for both his sake and your own. I'd be looking at a happy retirement for him, however long it may be for.
 

3OldPonies

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For me it would be an easy decision, retirement time. From his past history, I am surprised it's not been suggested before, arthritis can only be held back for so long and I think from what has happened that he has been giving you some pretty big hints that its time the riding stopped for quite a while now.

It can be incredibly rewarding at times looking after a retiree - I should know I have two retired with various illness and problems that make life interesting to say the least. Yes, it is hard work almost just as much as when they are ridden, but he'll probably still be able to spring surprises on you to make it all seem worthwhile - I know my two do! For me the hardest bit is watching everyone around me still riding, I can't lie I do miss it, but I would never put my oldies down just because they are no longer rideable - they've worked hard for me over the years and now it is payback time with a nice retirement. I do understand about the finances though, what works for me may not be for everyone, and I can't afford a third rideable horse (not even on loan) and if you decide that PTS is the way to go, then you will have the comfort of knowing that your horse won't be abused as so many oldies are by being passed from pillar to post if anyone ignores the history of your horse. It's a hard decision that you have to make, and whatever you choose I wish you the best.
 

SpringArising

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Clearly that isn't the case now but for a while there things were looking very hopeful.

How so? He's been unhappy in ridden work for the best part of nine years and has fallen countless times since. Also:

Before this fall we were really dealing with nappy behaviour and reluctance to stride out

Did you not correlate that to him being in pain?
 

DD265

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How so? He's been unhappy in ridden work for the best part of nine years and has fallen countless times since. Also:

[..]

Did you not correlate that to him being in pain?

He has good times and bad times. If we've seen that he's struggling, he's come out of work and not been worked again until he was back to moving well and happy to go. When the vet came he'd been off work for a few weeks again (because of the napping/reluctance) and the suggestion was to bute then try again. Plenty of horses work happily and comfortably when buted but we're obviously past that stage. I don't think it was unreasonable to try and he was certainly happy on that hack (albeit he wanted to eat everything in sight) before he fell.
 

Zero00000

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How so? He's been unhappy in ridden work for the best part of nine years and has fallen countless times since. Also:



Did you not correlate that to him being in pain?

In fairness that's easy to say when it's listed like that above, it's different when it's on/off over a course of years,

I think you know what's right, and I wish you all the best, whatever you decide
 

GirlFriday

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I think if you wrote most animals/price's histories you'd find some falls. I fell on the bus the other day, as it happens with a smaller person on top of me! (I am not elderly or arthritic or anything else, it was just one of those things) .

The difference here is that there are known underlying issues and that you are quite a lot smaller than the animal in question.

Personally I'd think to retire after discussion with vet and possibly YO, or whoever has the actual day to day care, too.

Then when you've decided tell YO (if you'd look to either move or change livery arrangement).

If horse is happy in field then I don't see a reason not to contemplate retirement livery either at an official retirement place or whatever grass livery type arrangement would be available conveniently on/near your yard/home.

If you decide to PTS for financial reasons that is obviously your call.

But first call either way would be to favourite vet if I was in uour position (they'll make money on the PTS too so no reason for them to be too biased in favour of continued treatment hopefully!)
 

poiuytrewq

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I was in a faintly similar situation last year. Horse had been lame on and off for years. We had tried various things sometimes seccessful for a while sometimes not.
He didn't fall ever but lost his sparkle ridden wise. I had tried for years to keep him going as so many people had told me to, stories of how horses like him drop like a stone once retired.
Not true! He's retired. He's fat he's happy but best of all he's actually sound. I feel no pressure to keep him going and am relieved that he's just chilling!
In your shoes I'd absolutely be retiring him. Then as everyone said just see how things go. If retirement suits you both fine, if not call it a day. X
 

DD265

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I was in a faintly similar situation last year. Horse had been lame on and off for years. We had tried various things sometimes seccessful for a while sometimes not.
He didn't fall ever but lost his sparkle ridden wise. I had tried for years to keep him going as so many people had told me to, stories of how horses like him drop like a stone once retired.
Not true! He's retired. He's fat he's happy but best of all he's actually sound. I feel no pressure to keep him going and am relieved that he's just chilling!
In your shoes I'd absolutely be retiring him. Then as everyone said just see how things go. If retirement suits you both fine, if not call it a day. X

I think when you've tried for so long, it almost becomes harder to give up on them especially when you get the little wins to keep you going.

I know he will retire because we've done it before and if I'm honest I find it a lot harder than he does. I get to the point where I can practically picture every blade of grass on the bridleway where I graze him in hand because we don't have a right lot else to do!
 

SatansLittleHelper

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I had an old rescued Standard bred who was 23 when he came to me and still doing light hacks. After a few months he started stumbling when out, even in a gentle walk. Vet couldn't find any reason at all but one day he fell on his knees and we retired him on the spot. I'd have kept him as a pet forever had his health allowed it but a few months later he was stuck unable to stand for more than a few steps so we called the vet to him. He was one of the nicest "people" I've ever met.
Each horse is different but I wouldn't be riding yours...too much at stake all round...I'd retire him and go from there. He's really telling you...you just need to listen. Good luck x
 

Red-1

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I think, reading your OP, that you know what you would like to do. You already think you don't want to ride him again. It seems you would prefer PTS, but have been brought short by YO and vet.

At 24 years old and with the problems as listed, I would not hesitate to PTS. It seems he has already had quite a long retirement, with a bit of hacking thrown in when he could cope. He now can't cope even with drugs.

For me, it would be time now.

If you decide to PTS I would not "ask" anyone else. It is your decision to make. It is a difficult question for anyone to answer. I would just inform people of your decision, and get help with the physical details.

Good luck, and tonight I will raise a glass to you and your horse. 24 is a fair old age.
 

Gentle_Warrior

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I am going through this myself. Horse is in 20s and fell over beginning of year. Has been reluctant to ride, trippy, stumbling and withdrawn, no spark in him, this year after the fall. And just not right. His shoes are coming off. Am trying to find him somewhere he can live out. I have not gone down the vet route as he is old, finances and had soundness issues for last 3 years which vet diagnosed as arthritis. He has worked hard so deserves it. I will miss riding him like crazy but its what he needs. If he gets any worse I will pts. I have hated coming to the decision and still fighting it now. Need shoes off and then we can both relax. Had him nearly 15 years bless him.
 

rachk89

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If you are having to bute a horse to ride it its not meant to be ridden. Definitely retire. It is up to you and you alone if you PTS. I can see why you would and also why you wouldn't. It is your call and neither option is wrong.
 

mytwofriends

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I echo all the above posters who have suggested now is definitely the time to retire him. They don't go downhill when their job is done. They can relax and be old happy horses until the time comes.

My oldie is doing that right now. He literally gets a potter out every now and again, and he's on a lovely stress free little yard with a stable if he needs it, and as much turnout as he likes. He's not on the PTS spectrum yet (touch wood), but I'll do what's right for him when the time does come. He's mid-20's and arthritic.

So, OP, retire your lovely horse, sell off tack etc to bring a little cash in, and let your boy enjoy a stress free life until he tells you he's had enough.
 

Micropony

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My two penn'orth is that you should definitely make the decision that his ridden career is over.

As to whether you retire him or PTS, I wonder if the decision will become clearer for you once the questions about riding him are no longer whirling around in your head.

IMO, the first question is what quality of life he would have in retirement, and whether it would really be the right thing for him. Only if the answer to that is that yes, keeping him in retirement would be humane, does the question of money come into it.

It's your decision and nobody else's, so take your time and don't allow anyone to pressure you either way.
 
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