Am I screwed or am I screwed...

[phoebe.and.bonnie]

The day I knew would come has finally come... Bonnie's loaner's decided they'd like to terminate her loan.

I've got the feeling that the loaner hasn't been happy for a while, but she hasn't made any effort to speak to me and I've been at uni full time and also working all my weekends so haven't had a chance to get to see her since I was home for a few days a month or so ago. So I got an e-mail this evening, telling me that she'd like to terminate the loan in 30 days time, as agreed in our loan agreement.

The reason she gave is that her napping has become very bad, and she's not suitable for riding and leading her daughter's pony from. I never really said that she'd be suitable for leading from, my understanding was that she would be accompanying the daughter and the pony on hacks. As for the napping... I'd always said that Bonnie needed regular work - a few days off is fine but you can't give her three weeks in a field doing nothing then expect her to be perfectly well behaved.

Sorry for the pointless moan, in a way I'm really happy because this means I'll get to have my horse back over Christmas, and I've been really really really missing her (and even missing poo-picking, whooodathunkit?) whilst I've been at uni. But at the same time, I'm very aware that Christmas-time is probably the worst time ever to be trying to find a new loan home for a horse... and that if I haven't got something sorted for her by January, I'll have to find a way to keep her somewhere near London (I'm at the RVC in Camden) or put her on livery somewhere - which is going to be a pretty massive struggle as my loan doesn't even cover my rent, and then the money I earn working generally goes pretty much solely on utilities and food...

 

[JFTDWS]

there are yards around PB and plenty of people taking on loans / shares from the RVC (particularly around PB, rather than Camden). What is she, out of curiosity?

 

[Boulty]

As JFTD said there's a few yards round PB way (think Mymms Hall is one of closest DIY, but def quite a few in driving distance... says the poor VN student with no car!) and I bet if you advertised on intranet you'd get some takers for loaning / sharing her from other students if it came to that (fingers crossed it doesn't!). Also depending on her temperament / how she is to ride you could maybe see if there's any riding schools (or even equine colleges, but I'd be careful if did go down that road as a lot don't have the best rep) that might take her on working livery, even just as a short term option til you find something more long term.

 

[smellsofhorse]

what a bout working livery somewhere?

I hope you find somewhere.

Could she live out?
She could have a few months off, cost you less to keep then find someone in the spring.

 

[phoebe.and.bonnie]

She's a 14 year old TB x Welsh. She's only really able to do hacking now, she's arthritic and so she's not up for really strenuous work - but she does still really enjoy getting out and about and is still fun to ride. She's only a pain to hack when she's not done it for a while, she just gets a bit silly and spooky sometimes, like any horse really. Her current loaner is only riding her when her kids want to hack out, which is about every month or so from what I can gather, so it's not really any surprise that she's not being brilliantly behaved. She was always perfect to hack for me! She's had a pretty tough life and was on working livery before I got her so I wouldn't want her going back on working livery or to a college - I've heard some pretty terrible stories about college horses!

She does live out 24/7, has done for the past few years. It's not really the issue of finding somewhere for her to live out, more that I'm in London and she's in Hertfordshire! I really need to keep her on grass livery as she stiffens up if she's kept in, but I just don't know where I'm going to find somewhere that offers that a do-able distance from where I am and at a price I can afford... my mum has offered to look after her for me back home but she has lupus so is in a lot of pain a lot of the time... it just wouldn't be fair for her to have a horse to look after on top of that.

 

[biggingerpony]

Have you thought about putting her on retirement livery?? my mares out in kent about 45mins drive from london. You can go visit whenever you want and it is very reasonable, £175 per month for everything including hay, 24/7 turnout if required or stabling up to you, quartley trimming, worming The only thing extra you have to pay is vaccinations and dentist! In a very knowledgeable care, who has the horses best interests at heart, great value for money and is really relaxed and chilled out! Doesn't have to be long term (I kept mine there for just a few months until I had sorted out a yard for me to look after!)
She also updates the facebook page with pics of all the retirement liveries and is in regular contact with all the owners so you can see how there getting on!
If you want anymore info PM me and I'll give you more details

 

[FairyLights]

Reading your posts I take it that you are student with debts.You cannot afford to keep your horse at livery which is why you loaned her out. Your horse is being returned because she naps. She can be spooky. She is 14 and has arthritis. It is the middle of winter in a recession and keeping a horse is expensive and becoming more and more of a luxury.
I know you wont want to hear this but have you considered humane disposal? If your debt is going to get bigger because of this horse and no-one who wants an arthritic,napping,spooky horse on loan comes forward it is a logical solution.

 

[OWLIE185]

The closest stable to your college is the Interaction stable at Kentish Town.
For grass livery or lots of turn out you would have to go out to Mill Hill (Mote End Farm, Strangeways Stud Farm, Barnet Riding Stables etc.) (which will be o.k once you are at the RVC at Potters Bar).

 

[ponypilotmum]

Reading your posts I take it that you are student with debts.You cannot afford to keep your horse at livery which is why you loaned her out. Your horse is being returned because she naps. She can be spooky. She is 14 and has arthritis. It is the middle of winter in a recession and keeping a horse is expensive and becoming more and more of a luxury.
I know you wont want to hear this but have you considered humane disposal? If your debt is going to get bigger because of this horse and no-one who wants an arthritic,napping,spooky horse on loan comes forward it is a logical solution.

Wow.

 

[biggingerpony]

Wow.

That's what I thought as well???? Bit drastic? Where there's a will there's a way.

The thought of putting to sleep would never even cross my mind!! I'm a student as well so am in massive debt, I work from 8 till 5 in the morning friday and saturday every weekend so I can look after her. She can't even be ridden, why should we just throw something away when its broken?? She's looked after me for years so now I should look after her!

Sorry feel so strongly about this topic! Makes my blood boil!!

 

[Bernster]

My horse is in the Hertfordshire area, very near the RVC. I may know of somewhere that offers good grass livery and only takes on mares, so PM me if interested. Have a friend there at the moment but she's thinking of moving her horse back home, so there may be a space available.

 

[ABC]

Bloody hell. That's a bit harsh isn't it?

OP, good luck

 

[ThePony]

That's what I thought as well???? Bit drastic? Where there's a will there's a way.

The thought of putting to sleep would never even cross my mind!! I'm a student as well so am in massive debt, I work from 8 till 5 in the morning friday and saturday every weekend so I can look after her. She can't even be ridden, why should we just throw something away when its broken?? She's looked after me for years so now I should look after her!

Sorry feel so strongly about this topic! Makes my blood boil!!

It may not be palatable, but it IS an option. Sometimes no matter what you want, it isn't possible to find the money. Should that become the case (and I hope very much for OP that she manages to find another solution) then PTS is not a terrible thing. It is a kind end to offer for a much loved friend.
Best of luck OP, I hope you manage to find another loan/share solution for your mare.

 

[Rowreach]

Reading your posts I take it that you are student with debts.You cannot afford to keep your horse at livery which is why you loaned her out. Your horse is being returned because she naps. She can be spooky. She is 14 and has arthritis. It is the middle of winter in a recession and keeping a horse is expensive and becoming more and more of a luxury.
I know you wont want to hear this but have you considered humane disposal? If your debt is going to get bigger because of this horse and no-one who wants an arthritic,napping,spooky horse on loan comes forward it is a logical solution.

Oooh, hang on there while I run outside and shoot all my slightly less than perfect horses which are currently draining my bank account ....



I think the OP sounds quite sane and sensible and is looking at the situation quite logically and maturely [for a student ] and I'm sure she'll come up with the right solution to her problem

 

[Rueysmum]

Reading your posts I take it that you are student with debts.You cannot afford to keep your horse at livery which is why you loaned her out. Your horse is being returned because she naps. She can be spooky. She is 14 and has arthritis. It is the middle of winter in a recession and keeping a horse is expensive and becoming more and more of a luxury.
I know you wont want to hear this but have you considered humane disposal? If your debt is going to get bigger because of this horse and no-one who wants an arthritic,napping,spooky horse on loan comes forward it is a logical solution.

Nothing like your user name, are you?

 

[Holly Hocks]

That's what I thought as well???? Bit drastic? Where there's a will there's a way.

The thought of putting to sleep would never even cross my mind!! I'm a student as well so am in massive debt, I work from 8 till 5 in the morning friday and saturday every weekend so I can look after her. She can't even be ridden, why should we just throw something away when its broken?? She's looked after me for years so now I should look after her!

Sorry feel so strongly about this topic! Makes my blood boil!!

I'm with you Milly - too many people willing to PTS too quickly.
OP I hope you find a loaner for her. Good luck x

 

[Goldenstar]

How long is it since you have seen your horse ?
She has a progressive condition and if she where mine I would be very worried that she has detiorated and is in increasing discomfort thay would explain the napping.
I think she's needs to come back to you so her condition can be assessed and although I would never say in a flippant way just PTS but if her chronic pain is increasing and it can't be controlled it is nor fair to expect her to suffer , that's not throwing her away because she's broken it's taking a difficult decision because she's your responsiblity .

 

[Holly Hocks]

How long is it since you have seen your horse ?
She has a progressive condition and if she where mine I would be very worried that she has detiorated and is in increasing discomfort thay would explain the napping.
I think she's needs to come back to you so her condition can be assessed and although I would never say in a flippant way just PTS but if her chronic pain is increasing and it can't be controlled it is nor fair to expect her to suffer , that's not throwing her away because she's broken it's taking a difficult decision because she's your responsiblity .

Yes but Goldenstar yours is a far more balanced and constructive post than the other person who suggested PTS - you have actually given reasons behind why PTS might be an option.

 

[wil24702]

Wow.

So as soon as things become hard ........

Tbh, I think 'humane disposal' is a very drastic option and rather heartless if I feel like being blunt!

 

[phoebe.and.bonnie]

Thanks for the idea about retirement livery - I've been looking it up and it seems I would be able to get a suitable package for her for about £45 a week... so lets say £250 a month including her insurance which is not prohibitively expensive!

The stables in Kentish Town is a city farm I believe? I'm meant to be volunteering there this summer

And as for yards a bit further north and around PB way, I'm going to try to enquire at a few places. I've heard Mote End Farm is good, and it would be do-able if they offer enough turnout!

I've also heard from my mum that somebody in the village may be interested in her... she's a 14 year old girl but if she's the sort of 14 year old I was when I got Bonnie I wouldn't be against that idea. As she would be close by my mum could keep an eye as well... so all in all things are seeming as promising as they can!

As for the comment about euthanasia... that would happen over my dead body! Bonnie is the love of my life, I would rather go without food to pay for her keep than even consider that. Besides from that, she is very well in herself. I say she is arthritic but her vet has said she is fine to continue working, she even said I would be able to bring her back into full fast-paced work (and invited me to the Boxing Day Meet with her...!) if it was done carefully. But I made the decision after her treatment that she's done a lot in life and I'd rather she just had fun hacking and stayed sound for as long as possible rather than running her about and her having more issues in the long run. You wouldn't even know she's arthritic as long as she is not stabled to be honest, she did look a bit bad coming out of the stable a couple of winters ago when I kept her in overnight when it was -10 or something ridiculous. I've since learnt that she is absolutely fine staying out under the trees with a massive haynet... it's only me who likes to see her nestled up in a big bed of straw!

I last saw her about a month ago and took her for a hack. She was absolutely fine for me, other than having a stop and look and snort. But I think that's the issue - it's fine for me to reassure her and give her a little tap with a stick to encourage her on when I'm on my own, but it would be a very different situation I think if you got into that situation whilst towing a child and pony along behind you!

 

[KWPN_V_2002]

Reading your posts I take it that you are student with debts.You cannot afford to keep your horse at livery which is why you loaned her out. Your horse is being returned because she naps. She can be spooky. She is 14 and has arthritis. It is the middle of winter in a recession and keeping a horse is expensive and becoming more and more of a luxury.
I know you wont want to hear this but have you considered humane disposal? If your debt is going to get bigger because of this horse and no-one who wants an arthritic,napping,spooky horse on loan comes forward it is a logical solution.

I know a few people have reacted badly to this post and this poster may not have put it over in the most sensitive way but I wouldn't jump down their throat for making the suggestion.

The OP is looking for sensible advice and I really hope that she finds a good solution for her mare.

While none of us ever want to put their horse to sleep there are situations where this is sometimes the best option.

Horses are extremely expensive and unless you have a lot of disposable income / land or both then they cannot be kept as pets. The majority of us work hard and make a lot of sacrifices to keep a horse but sometimes there just isn't the money there especially with the economic situation that we face today.

If the horse cannot do the job that the owner wants it to do (at the end of the day that's a big part of why you have a horse), it has issues that limits its attractiveness to a potential loan / share or good home then having it euthanased is a realistic option as a last resort.

Before you all go jumping down my throat, just imagine a situation like this:

A horse that was extremely talented at show jumping and dressage but got injured and could only be lightly ridden / happy hacker. It was extremely difficult to ride, handle and dangerous to hack out. The owner cannot afford to keep it as a pet. The majority of people who have been brave enough to get on it have been scared and won't get back on. The owner couldn't find anyone to share or loan the horse and even if they were able to sell it or give it away, they'd know that the horse would most probably be poorly handled, passed from one owner to the next etc...

I know a couple of people who have been through the ringer with this sort of situation and what they needed was support and helpful advice when potentially having to make a heart breaking decision, not derision and scorn about how heartless some people might see them as.

The OP's situation doesn't really sound like the one that I outlined and I am sure there will be people out there who would like to loan a nice happy hacker with the odd quirk. I wish you the best of luck with your situation - lots of people on this forum have offered up some good ideas and I'm sure you will find the best solution for you and your horse.

 

[Goldenstar]

OP in my post I was very clear I was not saying PTS because it was the easiest option.
having had horses for 45 years I have only once had one horse die. my first pony who was grazing happily when I saw him first thing In the morning but was dead at 11 when my neighbour went past the field all my others have been to PTS for various reasons the thing is at some point the time comes, the difficulty is in working out when that is.
So its no good getting on your high horse saying you will have to put her to sleep over your dead body because the chances are one day you may have to.
At one point in my life I lived in an Islamic country where for cultural reasons they did not PTS and can not tell you what some horses suffered before they passed away .
It does not sound like it is now but one day the chances are it will be you who has to take that decision I have many times lead my friend round the corner from their friends to come back with only the head collar It's not that I love them any less than you love yours in fact it's strength of the what I feel for them and my desire to give them a gentle ending that makes me strong enough to be there at the end.

 

[FairyLights]

OP in my post I was very clear I was not saying PTS because it was the easiest option.
having had horses for 45 years I have only once had one horse die. my first pony who was grazing happily when I saw him first thing In the morning but was dead at 11 when my neighbour went past the field all my others have been to PTS for various reasons the thing is at some point the time comes, the difficulty is in working out when that is.
So its no good getting on your high horse saying you will have to put her to sleep over your dead body because the chances are one day you may have to.
At one point in my life I lived in an Islamic country where for cultural reasons they did not PTS and can not tell you what some horses suffered before they passed away .
It does not sound like it is now but one day the chances are it will be you who has to take that decision I have many times lead my friend round the corner from their friends to come back with only the head collar It's not that I love them any less than you love yours in fact it's strength of the what I feel for them and my desire to give them a gentle ending that makes me strong enough to be there at the end.

Absolutely! I too have returned to the stable with only a headcollar and lead rope. Too many times TBH. But its the last act of kindness for a loved friend,including one I'd owned for 23 years. The youngest was only 2 yrs old and that was tragic. If the horse has issues, has pain,debts are being accrued,etc then the whole picture needs looking at and if a suitable home cannot be found and the owner cannot afford to keep the horse then what is the option? Send it to the sales and an uncertain future?

 

[phoebe.and.bonnie]

I'm not getting on my high horse at all. I'm not against euthanasia at all in the right circumstances... I've had the displeasure of holding one of the ponies at my old work whilst the deed was done. But I know it was the right thing to do in the circumstances. I know full well that one day I will probably have to make a difficult decision over Bonnie, I was exaggerating saying that will happen over my dead body. I just don't think it's appropriate at all for Bonnie right now - she's a happy healthy horse, and I can always get more shifts at work or use the nice overdraft I have on my student account to pay for her keep!

 

[daydreambeliever]

Just a thought but if the OP is a student at RVC which im assuming is the Royal Vet College,( please tell me if im wrong as its just a guess ).Then i would have thought euthenasia is a subject that would be covered along with all the pros and cons for animals with varying health issues.

Good luck OP with finding a solution. I was going to suggest looking for a sharer close to your mum, that way you will have peace of mind that she is well cared for and also get to see her and maybe have the odd ride when you go home.

 

[SouthWestWhippet]

Just a thought, but might she be suitable for light RDA work? They are often looking for horses that will walk round quietly on the lead rein, she would get regular work, mostly in walk and the standard of care at these centres is usually very high.

Doesn't suit all horses, but might be worth considering?

 

[phoebe.and.bonnie]

Yep it is Royal Vet College

As for the RDA work, she has actually been used for some RDA lessons in the past! Admittedly then she was still in regular work and was well-schooled, I'm not sure whether I would trust her to be well-behaved enough at the moment!

I think the plan is going to be that I'll have chat with the owner of the field where she was kept before she went on loan and see about getting her back there over the Christmas holidays. That way once I'm home from uni I can give her a bit of work and make her seem a little more loanable. I've got a better idea of all my options now, kind of went into a bit of a stressy panic thinking about it all initially and ranting on the forum seemed like the best plan at 1 this morning!

Thank you all for your input

 

[Tickles]

Good luck. There are several yards that RVC people go to in the Potters Bar/South Mimms ish area and, especially if you have a car/are good at cycling, that are commutable from central London. Few have 24/7/365 turn out but, with either part-livery or a sharer/loaner who mucks out on their days, it should be possible.

You should be relatively well-paid (look at all the vet's bill complaints on here!) within the foreseeable, and, presumably if your parents helped you get a horse at 14, have family back-up too. Plus, student debt is very different to loan-shark or even credit-card debt. So, you should be able to manage.

Perhaps a slightly older person returning to riding might be interested in some happy-hacking. I know I hope to be one day!

 

[BonneMaman]

Reading your posts I take it that you are student with debts.You cannot afford to keep your horse at livery which is why you loaned her out. Your horse is being returned because she naps. She can be spooky. She is 14 and has arthritis. It is the middle of winter in a recession and keeping a horse is expensive and becoming more and more of a luxury.
I know you wont want to hear this but have you considered humane disposal? If your debt is going to get bigger because of this horse and no-one who wants an arthritic,napping,spooky horse on loan comes forward it is a logical solution.

Good god - back away from the gun! Jesus - that is a bit harsh. I know loads of people who have large debts but still care for their horses very adequately, even to the detrement of their own lifestyle!

OP, hang in there - is her napping really bad? Get an advert out there super quick and try the local riding club web sites too. Herts is a pretty well off area so I would expect someone would try her. Is she a weight carrier?

 

[charlie76]

I would not usually side with the pts side either however, I also think Its amazing how many have suggested loaning to a college or riding school.
I run a riding school and we often Have horses offered to us and we take them on however I Would not be taking a horse on with so Many problems. Without wishing to sound harsh as I am sure she is lovely but what use Would a riding school or college have for a nappy horse with medical problems!? We have the odd older stiffer horse but they are used For hacking, of which yours would not be suitable.Just because we are riding schools it doesn't mean we take on anything!
IMO your choices are to pts or keep her and accept the cost involved.