Am I starving my pony 🙈

Michen

Michen

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I have a retired Connemara who has always been a good weight and been free fed forage. In the last couple of weeks he has piled on weight and had puffy hollows above his eyes, pulses and a hot foot. I removed him from grass immediately and then worked back up to a couple of hours turnout a day (he has a stable with an attached little dirt run/paddock so not confirmed to box rest!).

Feet are now cold and all settled. I’ve been weighing his hay- what a revelation- and feeding 9kg a day which seems right for his body weight (500kg ish). Soaked hay. I honestly think his hay has been almost halved so I’m a bit horrified at how much I’ve been allowing him to eat with ad lib!

But, despite being fed from a slow feeder- I can’t do a tiny haynet as he has neck arthritis- he’s getting through it quick and therefore having long overnight periods without forage. Not ideal. I can’t do more than twice a day feeds most of the time.

I’m also unsure if he’s even getting enough- in a 12 hour period he did 3 poos overnight. That seems about half of what’s normal for him, and I can only assume because less food going through him? But the weighting seems correct…

He is at least self exercising 🤣IMG_2351.jpeg
 
Cortez said:
The absolute maximum I have ever fed similar horses is 8kg hay, soaked for the porkers. Horses do not/cannot, contrary to popular lore, need to be stuffing their faces 24/7.
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Wow I’m probably being too generous then. Ok, need to be tougher. He’s telling me he’s starving!
 
motherof2beasts! said:
Can you leave some top chop zero in his stable ?! Mine pigs the hay so leave a trug of this , he’ll only eat if desperate but makes me feel better re having an empty tum.
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We don’t have that in the USA, chaff literally doesn’t exist it’s so annoying. I found a forage replacement type chaff but it’s not without “stuff” like top chop is
 
My two 15hh ponies come in off the grass at 9am til 6pm. They get 1kg soaked hay for the day and a bucket of chopped oat straw. They get another small net around 4.30pm before they are worked.

They still look far too well!

I have to keep them on diet rations all year or they’d pop. Ad lib would never be an option for mine.
 
I've always been a big Ad- Lib believer and would still like to be that way, However my horses got fat, and now the new one, who's not fat I just can't keep up with!
So Ive switched to (I dont weigh it) a smaller hay net in the morning, the same again at lunch time but not before. If they are empty they stand without for a while. Then they are out on not a lot of grass. I did last night put soaked hay out in the field.
I think it just dosen't work for all horses as much as I'd like to/feel better myself seeing them munch. I'd rather them thinner!
 
IME soaked hay rarely causes issues, even if it's more than they 'should' eat. You might find he loses weight anyway when the grass loses its goodness, then he can be fed more hay again. Can his grazing be restricted more? That's your other option of course, I know it's tricky to find the balance between keeping them happy and not getting too fat.
 
Cortez said:
The absolute maximum I have ever fed similar horses is 8kg hay, soaked for the porkers. Horses do not/cannot, contrary to popular lore, need to be stuffing their faces 24/7.
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My experience of big sports type horses 16.3hh living out in a decent amount of hard work, IS that they can hay Adlib hay / Haylage.

And most also need bucket feed too if full clipped in winter.

Appreciate PREs / Lusos / native types might be very different.
 
I do think he’s lost weight actually even in the last week.

I mean I don’t think this is dangerous fat? Maybe he does and I’m too used to him now. I dunno. But it’s irrelevant as I have to go by pulses, feet and other things.

He’s definitely never had this much weight on him in his life.

He does not have a hard crest.

IMG_2353.jpeg
 
Grass flushes in the autumn and can be rich, I have to monitor ours carefully all the time, but we have gone from hot dry to damp overnight, showers etc, so I adjust forage daily and use elec fencing and give a little morning and night, plus high fiber bucket feed and soaked hay at night
 
pistolpete said:
Sudden weight gain would make me worry about PPID has he been tested? I think hardy good doers are the hardest to look after!
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No he hasn’t but I may test. Honestly I thought I’d be putting him down around about now (a long story!) but he’s doing so well.

It wasn’t sudden as such he’s been gaining all summer but I think we got a flush of grass and I kinda realised he’d got quite a bit bigger.
 
Fieldlife said:
My experience of big sports type horses 16.3hh living out in a decent amount of hard work, IS that they can hay Adlib hay / Haylage.

And most also need bucket feed too if full clipped in winter.

Appreciate PREs / Lusos / native types might be very different.
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The horse we are talking about is nothing like those you are describing.
 
I have a native (in full work but he's metabolically challenged) and still wouldn't like to leave him without some fibre source available 24/7.

He's on weighed soaked hay and then has access to ad-lib straw at all times. It's not always appetising for him but he does eat more than I thought he would of it!

If you could get straw, I'd try that. Or something like the bricks that Simple Systems do, but no idea of that is available in the US?
 
motherof2beasts! said:
Can you leave some top chop zero in his stable ?! Mine pigs the hay so leave a trug of this , he’ll only eat if desperate but makes me feel better re having an empty tum.
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Yes this! Got me through 2 weeks box rest with my fatty, I use it as chaff and when they come in she gets too chop zero whilst her hay soaks. If they are ever in overnight they get a trug full.
 
LEC said:
Have you seen the Saracen clip which states feed more fibre during the day to prevent ulcers and less at night?

Might help ease your mind and just tweak what you are doing
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That's so interesting and makes me a million times happier about two of mine, Alfie who eats his own body weight in hay in a few hours and d been thinking what the heck will I do when he’s in overnight and Gally pony who can’t eat hay. I’ve been really stressing about her overnight in winter. I can and do provide plenty of buckets of mash throughout the day though so maybe that’s ok!
 
Good doers are such hard work. Mine have always been on the fatter side but not worrying but little cob had steroids and gained about 70kg!

No signs of lami thankfully but I've realised there is nothing I can do about her weight til winter so I'm limiting sugar by bringing in during the day for 10 hours on to 2kg of soaked hay and a tug of honey chop oat straw which is only partially eaten.

Anyway the general recommendation for forage intake is 1.5% of ideal body weight or 1% of current body weight. Current thinking is that it's ok to replace a third of that in weight with straw, preferably oat or barley.

Horses are supposed to be ok for up to 4 hours without forage. That makes sense to me, long hacks would be 3 hours anyway. I'm not sure I'd want them to go for 4 hours after being on very limited rations though.
 
Jambarissa said:
Good doers are such hard work. Mine have always been on the fatter side but not worrying but little cob had steroids and gained about 70kg!

No signs of lami thankfully but I've realised there is nothing I can do about her weight til winter so I'm limiting sugar by bringing in during the day for 10 hours on to 2kg of soaked hay and a tug of honey chop oat straw which is only partially eaten.

Anyway the general recommendation for forage intake is 1.5% of ideal body weight or 1% of current body weight. Current thinking is that it's ok to replace a third of that in weight with straw, preferably oat or barley.

Horses are supposed to be ok for up to 4 hours without forage. That makes sense to me, long hacks would be 3 hours anyway. I'm not sure I'd want them to go for 4 hours after being on very limited rations though.
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Mine is on steroids long term which is probably the problem!

He’s never ever been a good doer. He is now. lol.
 
Michen said:
I do think he’s lost weight actually even in the last week.

I mean I don’t think this is dangerous fat? Maybe he does and I’m too used to him now. I dunno. But it’s irrelevant as I have to go by pulses, feet and other things.

He’s definitely never had this much weight on him in his life.

He does not have a hard crest.

View attachment 146430
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I think he looks great.
 
Michen said:
Mine is on steroids long term which is probably the problem!

He’s never ever been a good doer. He is now. lol.
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I wonder what the vet says about steriods, hormones, insulin resistance & diet?

I get their teeth checked before I feed straw. If their teeth are fine, I give good doers free access to straw and restrict hay or grass with a net/ strip grazing fence. This works best for the pony & me (but not every equine).

I think natives eat grass, but don’t get enough fibre, so they eat more grass to get more fibre, but don’t get enough fibre…so they eat more….

I have been trying to get my head around good doers: people say that equine obesity is due to Rye Grass, or cow pasture but I have come across obese natives turned out on moorland, really poor ground.

When I was last on the West Coast of Scotland, I saw vastly overweight ponies turned on heather moorland (with no supplementary forage) whilst those that are a healthy weight cross-graze with Cows and Sheep.
The more I read about equines and evolution, the more I understand how much fibre a native needs in their diet. Horses (and Woolly Mammoths) teeth were uniquely adapted to eat the really abrasive grass that ruminants won’t eat: they survive well where the richest grass was eaten by other animals like Deer, Cows or Sheep.

The New Forest is the perfect example, Cows and Sheep don’t just reduce the amount of grazing, they eat the richest grasses and leave the abrasive fibrous grass for the horses.

In Medieval times, people used to coppice trees and feed the branches to livestock in the winters so ponies can digest the cellulose in trees and straw.

This probably explains why natives are adapted to stuff their faces with vast quantities of poor forage: and they get very fat if that forage does not have enough fibre.
 
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Horses chew from side to side it's how they keep their digestive system going and their teeth in shape. It produces saliva. Picking at short grass, chopped feed etc they aren't grinding their food and at lot goes straight down and out again. Its why racehorses end up with ulcers not the only reason but definitely one of them. This gives a risk of colic and choke. Also chopping up carrots small to put in food. They don't chew it it goes straight down. So long stalk food is differently better.
 
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Michen said:
I think I can get straw. And that’s ok to feed? I thought it risked colic?
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I asked a vet & a vet nurse who worked specifically on Colic cases. She said she had never seen Colic due to straw ingestion.

I recently heard a vet say there was no evidence that straw causes colic (but absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence).

However, I always
- make sure straw is less than 50% of the diet - more like 25%. If they are also eating haylage/ grass colic should be unlikely, as te grass gives them loads of fluids.
-get their teeth checked first, as colic is associated with poor dentition.
- If they are moving around rather than stabled outside they are less likely to get an impaction…
- I don’t feed straw if the water is frozen/ or they are not drinking because the water is cold.
- try to discourage eating a straw bed in the stable (by extending the feeding time of hay in small nets)
 
I never fed straw yet, my oldest vet said it was not good for them, and a friend that produces straw uses antifungal spray of 12 different chemicals.

However glad I wrote that! How about organic oat straw, ha lightbulb moment, have seen organic porridge oats for sale, must look into this one for Mr tubby Irish cob

But soaked hay seems to do the job or help
 
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