Am I unreasonable

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yobonacob

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This situation is a bloody long and complicated one. R went on full loan to a home to stay on same yard as before and I as sharer from owner (O) continued to share R from new full loaner (FL). Strange set up I know! I did a hell of a lot for the loan family over winter - hours of childcare, full clipped all three horses, did all the chores, was first one to get back on FLs own horse after a month off and they were nervous; basically got massively mugged off imo! Share from owner started free so R could get enough exercise (metabolic). R is sweetest thing ever but saddle did not fit, I told FL about this and we got saddler out to have a look and they basically said it is: too narrow, massive pressure points at front by withers that have caused visibly bad muscle wastage, flocking is lumpy which has given R sore back, and it is too long. Saddler took saddle off and palpated Rs back and showed big ouchy reflex on a sore spot. I stopped riding in saddle and either rode bareback, lunged, long reined or walked like a dog. However FL did not stop and continued to ride in the saddle. I started noticing R reacting to me touching the back and wither area - even pulled a grumpy face when i tried to palpate which R has never done before. I tried to chat, offered to contribute to new saddle as money is an issue for them but was basically told because R isn't bucking and rearing R is coping well enough for them to continue to ride and as R is metabolic it is more important R is exercised - I agree but lunging, bareback, long lining and R is broken to drive and has own cart!!!!! Had chat with FL who told me I am unrealistic and no horse is ever going to be pain free, I live in a text book not the real world and I have an attitude and am ungrateful for the opportunity they gave me. I promptly said goodbye and contacted O, and I have offered to take R out on full loan at a yard I already work at. Waiting to hear back but I'm not feeling particularly hopeful as this was a week ago and haven't really heard back. So am I the arsehole basically?!
 
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No, but ball’s always in the owner’s court.
Loaners will be too nervous / novicey to ride bareback / long rein etc, so if his soreness isn’t under the driving pad - get him yoked up and offer to take the loaners out driving until they can afford a fresh saddle.
They might really enjoy, even prefer it. Hope things work out.
 
Exasperated said:
No, but ball’s always in the owner’s court.
Loaners will be too nervous / novicey to ride bareback / long rein etc, so if his soreness isn’t under the driving pad - get him yoked up and offer to take the loaners out driving until they can afford a fresh saddle.
They might really enjoy, even prefer it. Hope things work out.
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FL has taken him out in cart with me! Loved it but apparently not enough I guess. Have already left after the way FL spoke to me, told me I needed to apologise for my attitude and it isn't a big deal, I couldn't stay knowing how little they care for R though and I bloody miss him. Send prayers O gets back to me before I explode...
 
Peglo said:
What has the owner said about the saddle? Surely owner can’t be happy the horse is being ridden in pain?

But no you are not unreasonable and I hope the owner will cancel the loan with this person if they don’t care about the horse at all
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O and I had chat on the phone regarding my concerns re saddle etc and are going to have a chat to FL and get back to me. I have made it clear that if R came to me he would have vet work on back and new saddle at my expense. Also messaged about an incident that occurred that I didn't mention over the phone last Friday, everything crossed they have a chat and find a solution for Rs sake - preferably coming to me!
 
Sounds like you are caught in the awkward place where sharers exist...
While you are acting in the horses best interests other people are allowed to have other opinions and I can see where a metabolic horse is going to need to be kept in work and I am someone who loathes to use lunging as a regular form of exercise so I can see why they might not have stopped overnight. As a sharer you are never responsible for making decisions about the horses management, you can of course provide feedback and information of what you know but it's not always welcomed!
When I have had sharers previously if one of them had told me what I could and couldn't do with my horse I would have been furious! I have also had horses on loan so would listen to the owner if they stipulated something but not a sharer. What did the saddler suggest? A new saddle or altering the existing one? Who paid for and organised the saddler to come? If money is an issue and the saddle came with the horse could O replace it? Or are you happy to buy a saddle outright and allow them free use of it? Just expecting them not to ride isn't a solution, more of a temporary sticking plaster.
Unfortunately your response to end the arrangement will not be viewed well from either FL or O as you may have come across as petulant so i can see why they've not come back to you. As a sharer you have 2 options: accept the situation you are in or leave the situation and in their eyes you have made that choice.

TLDR; YANBU to have the horse's best interest but YABU to tell them they can't ride and must spend £££.
 
abbijay said:
Sounds like you are caught in the awkward place where sharers exist...
While you are acting in the horses best interests other people are allowed to have other opinions and I can see where a metabolic horse is going to need to be kept in work and I am someone who loathes to use lunging as a regular form of exercise so I can see why they might not have stopped overnight. As a sharer you are never responsible for making decisions about the horses management, you can of course provide feedback and information of what you know but it's not always welcomed!
When I have had sharers previously if one of them had told me what I could and couldn't do with my horse I would have been furious! I have also had horses on loan so would listen to the owner if they stipulated something but not a sharer. What did the saddler suggest? A new saddle or altering the existing one? Who paid for and organised the saddler to come? If money is an issue and the saddle came with the horse could O replace it? Or are you happy to buy a saddle outright and allow them free use of it? Just expecting them not to ride isn't a solution, more of a temporary sticking plaster.
Unfortunately your response to end the arrangement will not be viewed well from either FL or O as you may have come across as petulant so i can see why they've not come back to you. As a sharer you have 2 options: accept the situation you are in or leave the situation and in their eyes you have made that choice.

TLDR; YANBU to have the horse's best interest but YABU to tell them they can't ride and must spend £££.
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I understand your point, saddler said it was an awful saddle that is completely unsuitable so new one needed. I didn't tell FL outright that she can't keep riding, I told her I wasn't riding and what is the plan for the saddle as FL is very hotheaded but the response to that was essentially there is no plan how dare you suggest there should be. FL paid for saddler as they were checking other horse at the same time. O does not really want to be involved in care and full costs are FL responsibility. Tbh I don't understand why anyone would want to keep riding a horse when they have been told and shown by a professional that it is causing pain. FL has other horse that could ride and lead too. I did offer multiple times to contribute to the new saddle but it isn't needed in FL eyes
 
I am struggling a bit with exactly where you fit in to this. If the horse is now on full loan to a third party, how can you still be a part loaner? That would mean the person you are claiming is a full loaner does not actually have the horse on full and complete loan. If they do, or at least expected that they do have full and complete loan then I can imagine your trying to call the shots, no matter how well meaning, might have ruffled feathers somewhat.

Either way sounds like you are now out of the equation so sadly you might need to step back and accept your are not the horse's owner or full loaner so unable to change anything for the poor animal.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
I am struggling a bit with exactly where you fit in to this. If the horse is now on full loan to a third party, how can you still be a part loaner? That would mean the person you are claiming is a full loaner does not actually have the horse on full and complete loan. If they do, or at least expected that they do have full and complete loan then I can imagine your trying to call the shots, no matter how well meaning, might have ruffled feathers somewhat.

Either way sounds like you are now out of the equation so sadly you might need to step back and accept your are not the horse's owner or full loaner so unable to change anything for the poor animal.
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O did not have time for R so was loaned to FL on the condition that I continued to share 3x per week.
 
Yeah, it's not OK to keep riding when you know they're in pain from the saddle. I've walked miles and miles (and miles and miles) with mine rather than ride in an ill-fitting saddle. If they were novice-y and not really aware of it, that's one thing, but they've been clearly told by the saddle-fitter.
 
You are absolutely right, however this is one of those situations (of which there are unfortunately a great many in life) where being right doesn't actually help get you what you want. Sometimes it's possible to get there with more diplomacy, sometimes the cards are just stacked against you no matter how right you are.

Either way I hope for R's sake and yours that the owner does right by the horse and lets him come to you! It does boggle my mind how many owners just wash their hands after the horse goes on loan. My first share horse several years ago had been (prior to me knowing him) completely neglected while on loan, to the point where he was all but feral, riddled with worms and was too thin and weak to do anything except walk in hand and longrein up and down the road. He must have been completely neglected for at least a couple of years and yet the owner was none the wiser. He was lucky and landed on his feet with the next loaners who rehabbed him and where I knew him but after hearing about that if I ever had to loan any of mine out it would be on the understanding that I'd be visiting at least every 6 months and every 3 for the first year!
 
A slightly out of the box sort of idea to try to help the horse - do you know the saddler?

If you do, or feel you could make contact, could you have a quiet word and explain the situation to them, then ask if they might be willing to help by sending a written report to FL about the fit of the saddle? They could perhaps attach a note saying 'Sorry it's taken a while to send this, I'm a bit behind on paperwork' or something?

That way, FL has it in black and white that the saddle doesn't fit, it could be sent to O too, and if it included the direction that the horse shouldn't be ridden in that saddle for xyz reason then so much the better.
 
jkitten said:
You are absolutely right, however this is one of those situations (of which there are unfortunately a great many in life) where being right doesn't actually help get you what you want. Sometimes it's possible to get there with more diplomacy, sometimes the cards are just stacked against you no matter how right you are.

Either way I hope for R's sake and yours that the owner does right by the horse and lets him come to you! It does boggle my mind how many owners just wash their hands after the horse goes on loan. My first share horse several years ago had been (prior to me knowing him) completely neglected while on loan, to the point where he was all but feral, riddled with worms and was too thin and weak to do anything except walk in hand and longrein up and down the road. He must have been completely neglected for at least a couple of years and yet the owner was none the wiser. He was lucky and landed on his feet with the next loaners who rehabbed him and where I knew him but after hearing about that if I ever had to loan any of mine out it would be on the understanding that I'd be visiting at least every 6 months and every 3 for the first year!
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Update:

O has decided that she would like R to remain with FL due to the circumstance that if he moved off the yard he would not be allowed back on (nothing to do with FL- all down to the yard). Personally think that's mental because I also detailed an incident of abuse I witnessed! Ultimately I do get her reasoning but I had hoped his health came first, though he is her horse so up to her if she wants him back knacked! Anyway lesson learnt, never ever loaning from anyone under any circumstances again. If anyone knows of a 13.2+ cob type for up to 3k do let me know!
 
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