Am I wrong to be annoyed?

Leviathan said:
^5 Happy


and what if this owner is walking her dog in the woods and the dog has learnt its ok to hang on horses tail and .................................................
meets a horse rider while off the lead then..............................
chases horse grabs its tail.



1. horse kicks dog seriously injures dog
horse kicks dog .... kills it.
dogs grabs horses tail horse freaks bucks owner off . owner falls breaks her back or kills herself on road
horse gallops off out of control down road straight into a car kills itself or the driver or rider???

But thats ok no harm done ..............................:mad:

either
on injured dog
horse
driver

or one
dead dog
owner
horse


:mad:
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No wonder there is such a big business in sorting out "problem" horses - owners and handlers see problems where none exist. They worry about what "might" happen - rather than look at what actually happened.

In the situation that the OP posted about, no harm came to dog, handler or horse. And yes, in another scenario the dog, the horse or the handler could have been injured - but that DID NOT HAPPEN. Therefore the OP is over reacting by being upset hours after the event.

To improve things in the future (basicily to ensure that the isn't a mad horse killing dog in the vicinity (would be good to get stats on how many dogs are killed by horses and how many horses are injured by dogs))then the OP should offer to work with the uneducated dog owner to ensure that this dog never "hangs off" the horses tail ever again.
 
EllenJay said:
No wonder there is such a big business in sorting out "problem" horses - owners and handlers see problems where none exist. They worry about what "might" happen - rather than look at what actually happened.

In the situation that the OP posted about, no harm came to dog, handler or horse. And yes, in another scenario the dog, the horse or the handler could have been injured - but that DID NOT HAPPEN. Therefore the OP is over reacting by being upset hours after the event.

To improve things in the future (basicily to ensure that the isn't a mad horse killing dog in the vicinity (would be good to get stats on how many dogs are killed by horses and how many horses are injured by dogs))then the OP should offer to work with the uneducated dog owner to ensure that this dog never "hangs off" the horses tail ever again.
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no she is not overreacting just because nothing happened this time does not mean it wont next.

Dogs on a yard is the dog owners responsibility if they cannot control, their dog off lead it should be on lead or off the yard period.
 
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EllenJay said:
No wonder there is such a big business in sorting out "problem" horses - owners and handlers see problems where none exist. They worry about what "might" happen - rather than look at what actually happened.

In the situation that the OP posted about, no harm came to dog, handler or horse. And yes, in another scenario the dog, the horse or the handler could have been injured - but that DID NOT HAPPEN. Therefore the OP is over reacting by being upset hours after the event.

To improve things in the future (basicily to ensure that the isn't a mad horse killing dog in the vicinity (would be good to get stats on how many dogs are killed by horses and how many horses are injured by dogs))then the OP should offer to work with the uneducated dog owner to ensure that this dog never "hangs off" the horses tail ever again.
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OMG now we have moved into fantasy land lol

FIY my late mare kicked two dogs that were hanging around her legs one dog owner was warned to get their dog as its in risk of being kicked, theydid not and dog kicked. The other fail to get their dog when it was ahead of me on the ride, dog ran back straight at my horses legs and she kicked it, dog rolly pollied across the path 3 times and ran back whimpering to owner.

Horses see dogs as a predictor. so a strange dog grabbing it it could and often does react as nature programmed it too.

My dog came out with my mare and she tolerated him as he was part of the yard, but a strange dog she would lash out. I would never tell a horse off for lashing out.


SO again OP you are right to be annoyed and I stand by that.

The best way OP for this not to happen again is say to the owner
  • Either leash it
  • train it
  • do not bring it to yard
  • or find somewhere else
 
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Leviathan said:
no she is not overreacting just because nothing happened this time does not mean it wont next.

Dogs on a yard is the owners responsibility if they cannot control, their dog off lead it should be on lead or off the yard period.
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Of course she is over-reacting. Everything you do you need to analyse for risk. What are the chances that next time she brings her horses in there is going to be an out of control dog "hanging off tail". On a grid of 0 - 100 where 100 = definately I would rate the risk as 10 (maximum) so going back to the original question - "Yes she is wrong to be annoyed"
 
EllenJay said:
Explain this
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you thinking just because nothing happened this time its ok for this dog to hang on a tail!.

I bet if you put a poll up and ask H&H member s who would not be annoyed at a livery 's dog running at their horse and hanging on tail who would not be annoyed it would be Marjory rules they would be . So lets prove the point do a poll let members have their say, let the results speak for themselves!!!
 
EllenJay said:
Where have I said that it is acceptable - all I have said is that the OP is wrong to be "annoyed". In a few years time to OP will be pleased that the youngster doesn't react to an "enthusisatic" dog - she has a well rounded horse. The dog wasn't hurt in the "INCIDENT". The OP wasn't hurt in the "INCIDENT" so no harm done.

***** happens -you deal with it. And I would still love to see a photo of a dog "hanging off a horses tail"
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But if it ISN'T acceptable (which you seem to agree with), then why exactly is the OP wrong to be annoyed?

I'd be annoyed, as much by the lack of an apology as anything else.
 
Leviathan said:
you thinking just because nothing happened this time its ok for this dog to hang on a tail!.

I bet if you put a poll up and ask H&H member s who would not be annoyed at a livery 's dog running at their horse and hanging on tail who would not be annoyed it would be Marjory rules they would be . So lets prove the point do a poll let members have their say, let the results speak for themselves!!!
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I never said that it is OK for a dog to "Hang off the horses tail". I have said that I don't beleive it happened.

I also haven't said that it is right for a dog to run at a horse but these things happen - so surely it is better for a horse to get used to dog, cars and other spooky things without the handler/owner getting uptight about it?
 
HashRouge said:
But if it ISN'T acceptable (which you seem to agree with), then why exactly is the OP wrong to be annoyed?

I'd be annoyed, as much by the lack of an apology as anything else.
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The horse didn't react, no harm was done - why is the OP annoyed?
 
Well if that was an over reaction you would not be pleased by what I would do in that situation! The idiot with the out of control dog, on MY yard would have been given notice there and then! Our rules here (keep horses at home and one sort of livery, never again) are dogs in leads if you must bring them, if they are on those stupid extending leads DO NOT extend the thing. Also keep your children under control, away from my things and do not allow them to wave sticks about or go in the field with my horses without an adult.
 
EllenJay said:
The horse didn't react, no harm was done - why is the OP annoyed?
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The Op is annoyed because the dog owner didnt chastise the dog or apologise for its behaviour , the horses behaved impeccably, the dog and dog owner didnt!! i would be mortified if any of my dogs did this, and would be most apologetic!!
 
Amymay I can understand as well she in a world of her own, just wonder what Ellenjay would say or do if a dog lashed onto to her horse. Me I'd have made the dog owner know where she stood if it ever happened again.:mad:
 
It only took one incident with an idiotic dog owner and their under trained dog, to cause my then yearling to become very aggressive with dogs. I then had to put in lots of training with my horse to get her to the point where she would walk nicely past dogs on leads or under control. If they are loose in the field she still goes for them, so when the farmer comes to collect his sheep, I have to take her out of the field. If one tried to grab her tail, she would kick it and not a warning kick either.
 
EllenJay said:
The horse didn't react, no harm was done - why is the OP annoyed?
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its the principle

yard Manager was walking two horses sensibly to their stables, a livery dog ran and grabbed the tail .

You keep saying nothing happened whats the problem. Well nothing as in no one got hurt this time but the dog has learnt its ok to do this.

next time might not be so lucky maybe horse jumps ont OP and do a horrific injury like cinnamontoast has just received when a horse did the similar thing that could have happened a horse knocked her to the ground when it move d away from something it did not like
There were several horses at the gate, I shooed them away and was close to the gate, turning to put on the headcollar. The mare decided she didn't like another horse standing quietly by the other end of the gate, so tried to charge her, knocking me down and trampling my lower rit leg in the process.
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http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=600258. < this is horrific

This could have happened to OP accidents do and can happen.

My mum always said don't jump on the bed, i ignored her many times and continued, don't jump on the bed she said you might injure yourself, i thought nah nothing will happen - well one day it did I knocked my front tooth out now i have a false one.

its like saying well go hacking with no high viz i got back ok so no need for it - then one day it might be too late driver dosen't see you = one horse accident.

Remember cry wolf story????


This dog hanging on A horses tail is an accident waiting to happen. IMO and a few others it would seem
 
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Didn't expect such reactions!

I'm a DIY on the yard although slightly seperate as I have my own field so I have no say so over other liveries.

We have children on the yard with ponies-partly my concern is what if this happens to another person or child that is so tolerant?

I'm all for life experiences for youngsters and I do think that I've spook busted her a lot I just don't want to be the one paying someone's vet bill for their ignorance/negligence but as it was my horse that kicked I'm at fault!

Oh and evidently instead of being concerned about my horses I must whip out the camera and snap a pic!

Thank you for those with sensible view points
 
dianchi said:
Didn't expect such reactions!

I'm a DIY on the yard although slightly seperate as I have my own field so I have no say so over other liveries.

We have children on the yard with ponies-partly my concern is what if this happens to another person or child that is so tolerant?

I'm all for life experiences for youngsters and I do think that I've spook busted her a lot I just don't want to be the one paying someone's vet bill for their ignorance/negligence but as it was my horse that kicked I'm at fault!

Oh and evidently instead of being concerned about my horses I must whip out the camera and snap a pic!

Thank you for those with sensible view points
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:) well as my point goes you did nothing wrong.
 
EllenJay said:
The horse didn't react, no harm was done - why is the OP annoyed?
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I should imagine that she is annoyed as much as anything by the lack of action or apology from the dog's owner.

I can think of two posters on this thread that I would not allow on my yard, if they think that this kind of behaviour is acceptable. How bizarre. I do sometimes think that some people take a particular view just to be provocative.
Yes OP, of course you were right to be annoyed, I'd have been tempted to kick the dog (or its owner) myself.
 
Haven't read every post so excuse me if I'm repeating a point someone else has made ....

A lot of people seem to be saying no-one was hurt so what's the harm, or horses should be used to dogs etc ..... But it's not really about the fact that no-one was hurt, it's about the fact that this is plain bad manners on the dog owners part not to make an effort to call and control her dog. Or indeed if she knew it would behave this way to leave it in the car. It's nothing to do with who did or didn't get kicked, it's to do with your time with your horses being spoiled by badly behaved dogs! I don't want to have to reprimand and deal with some else's yapping, chasing or biting dog while I'm minding my own business at the yard!

Yes, horse owners need to make every effort to ensure their horses are trained and desensitised to situations, but the same goes for dog owners who intend to have their dogs with them at the yard too. It's also their responsibility to make sure their dogs are safe around horses. That way everyone can enjoy their own space and leisure time.
 
Regardless of whether there was any bad outcome I think it's totally irresponsible on the dog owners part. NO dog should be allowed off the lead without FULL control on the owners part- so many people make excuses for bad behaviour and its not right. Even if you wasnt hurt You wouldn't expect a dog to grab you on your leg and think its 'okay'. Common sense really keep your dog on lead if he doesn't care or respect owners or his surroundings. I don't think your overacting as your not, l would be annoyed with the owner and fully expect it to happen again as clearly they have no control over their dog.
 
EllenJay said:
And I would still love to see a photo of a dog "hanging off a horses tail"
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Apologies, I can't find the footage. Which is annoying as I have a few other stills from that day but none of the dog hanging of his tail (since it's not something I particularly wanted to publicise!). He was a devil for it. My current one, however would rather get in front and try and turn them back.

I think it's totally reasonable for the OP to be annoyed at the lack of concern from the dog's owner, and the lack of control she has over it. I think the outcome is irrelevant - though I totally agree that horses should be desensitised to dogs around them and owners shouldn't panic or make situations worse. These things do happen, but if you are responsible for an animal, imo that incudes being responsible for training it to keep it reasonably safe. People who neglect to do so certainly annoy me.
 
Id be pissed off at that as well op.
If the owner cant control the dog it shouldnt be off the leash, and while its good for horses to be desensitised to dogs, it should be done in a controlled environment with dogs that are under control, not on a wing and a prayer when something decides just to run around yours and your horses feet because the owner cant control them.
 
OP, you're right to be annoyed.

If your youngster had double barrelled the dog and hurt it, who would be paying the vets bill? If your youngster had bolted and injured itself or someone, who'd be at fault then?

Accidents happen in even the most unexpected situations and you were ALL lucky!
 
OP is not over-reacting IMO. My horses are used to my lurchers dashng about, my lurchers are used to the horses. But one day one of my dogs ran up behind a horse that I was turning out, couldn't see exactly what happened, but the outcome was a lurcher with a broken leg. She had to have it amputated and her shoulder blade removed. I was lucky that my vet bill was only £500.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I should imagine that she is annoyed as much as anything by the lack of action or apology from the dog's owner.

I can think of two posters on this thread that I would not allow on my yard, if they think that this kind of behaviour is acceptable. How bizarre. I do sometimes think that some people take a particular view just to be provocative.
Yes OP, of course you were right to be annoyed, I'd have been tempted to kick the dog (or its owner) myself.
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In her shoes, I'm sure I would be annoyed over the complete lack of understanding from the dog owner about what could have happened, Dianchi's horse could have killed the dog, both the horses could have freaked out and injured themselves/her/someone else. But even though it could have happened, it did not, so even though I find it understandable if someone thinks about the what if's afterwards, to actually be annoyed hours later over the things that did not happen, sounds a little pointless to me.

So to try and avoid misunderstandings, I find it okay to be annoyed over the inconsiderate dog owner, but a little pointless to be annoyed over what did not happen, and I think that the behaviour of both dog and its owner is unacceptable.

By the way, I would have thought it was fully understandable if Dianchi had kicked the dog, however, even though it can be tempting, generally speaking, in reality I don't think that it is quite politically correct for me to kick another person when I think that the other person is acting stupidly and inconsiderate.
 
Dog grabs horses tail, horse leaps forward, handler pushed to floor in amongst two horses hooves, possibly one shod...unprotected human body...especially head on the floor amongst the hooves. Human hurt if lucky...dead if not.

Dog grabs horses tail, horse kicks dog, dog hurt or dead.

Dog grabs horses tail, horse gets annoyed, dog bites horse, horse is badly injured, kicks dog, dog hurt or dead.


Seriously, this kind of thing is indefensible tbh. As a random accident, not much can be done...on a livery yard, completely out of order. We have a very relaxed yard, but we have rules and dogs on leads is one of them. In fact, we only allow dogs on leads when all horses are in...just won't take the risk as children are on the yard as well and this is despite knowing that all of our dogs are horse friendly. It's called being responsible. We have enough risks with horse, no point adding to the list.

Yes, I would be annoyed, but I would be asking YO to enforce a dogs on lead rule. I don't give two boots if it is good training for your youngster...try saying that if you ended up with an injury like cinnamon toast!
 
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