Amateur buying professionally produced horse?

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sare_bear

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Would you?

I am starting to look for another horse and have seen one I like, but it has been evented by a professional rider. Would this put you off? Do most horses pro produced not think for themselves and are unable to get you out of trouble or does it depend on the horse? Also, I am hesitating, as although I used to ride to a reasonable level, I am very rusty due to several years of horse injuries and would worry about wasting a pro's time/ feel embarrased.:(

Would you continue looking and opt for an average am horse type instead?

Any experiences welcome.:)
 
My personal view is to take a pro with you when you look and go with yours eyes open.

I was based at a pro's yard for a while and this particular person knew all the tricks in the book to show off the horse in a way to hide its weaknesses and short comings.You'd have to have been in the trade to know what was happening.

Most Pro's often ride harder and the horse has accomplished more as they need to make money from the horses to survive and may not take the time to produce it like an amateur would.

I would thoroughly research and get feedback from anyone I was buying from and take someone experienced with you but that applies to whoever you buy from, Pro, Amateur or recreational rider.
 
I would be very wary, and to be honest would steer clear of any fully produced pro horses, especially by men. I may consider YR/lady produced.
I was bitten quite badly (my own fault really, very naive) by a horse produced by a 4* male.

It sort of depends what you want to do, but if unaffiliated or lower level affiliated then high on my list would be the horse ridden by a reasonable junior or amateur female.

My current horse was bought from a tall professional male dealer/producer type, done quickly, and you can certainly tell he has been held together by someone strong. I went against my own rules on this one because I liked the horse enough, but in my defense the horse was young, barely competed and the male hadn't had him that long.
 
I think it depends on the horse and the Pro. Having bought a horse from a well known male pro, I don't Think I would again. Nothing wrong with either the pro or the horse I bought, but it did take a long time to convince him that I was worth listening to being a 5'2" female. He was also very much used to being on a pro yard and having a very set routine. When I first got him he didn't know what to do when I turned him out! In the end it all came right and he was a fab horse. But it definately isn't an easy option IME.
 
It completely depends on the horse and how it's been produced. You would have to go and see it, ride it and discuss the situation with your own trainer/coach/whatever to see if the horse fits your needs. Just because the horse goes for another amateur is no guarantee it will go for you, either.

As to wasting the pro's time or being embarrassed. . .would you feel that way if you were buying a car? It's the pro's job to ride and sell the horse, they have no reason or right to be anything less than business-like and helpful. If a pro did treat myself or my client badly then that would be a reason to head for the door but that would be the pro's problem not mine and he/she would have potentially lost a sale (and I, personally, might be inclined to tell then why! ;) ) but I would say the same for any seller. In fact I've probably seen more badly behaved, rude private sellers over the years than pros!

If you like the horse, ring up. Be honest in the initial conversation and listen to what the pro says. I'd also advise taking someone with you to see it, for moral support if nothing else.
 
Pros: it will have been correctly trained. It will be used to working hard and should have a good work ethic. It will have been out doing things, seeing the world with a confident rider on board.

Cons: the pro may be so disciplined and consistent, that the horse doesn't dare "try anything" cheeky. When an amateur gets on, the horse goes "Wipppeee" and proceeds to take the mickey big style.
You will pay a premium for a pro-produced horse.

Someone said to me once, it's better to buy a great horse from an amateur rider, than it is to buy an average horse from a pro.

Go take a look, take someone with you, maybe a trainer. Ask if the trainer will get on it before you do, to make sure it's safe and that it will be able to handle little rider mistakes. Some horses will lose the plot with little mistakes...

Despite all that, I would buy from a professional, because I would know the horse has had a solid and correct foundation of training.
 
Andiamo said:
Pros: it will have been correctly trained.



Despite all that, I would buy from a professional, because I would know the horse has had a solid and correct foundation of training.
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I wouldn't assume that at all tbh hearing some of the horror stories from people who have bought from Pro's. Some of the basic steps are missed out in the rush to present a well rounded animal.
 
I would, if I liked the horse - and have done. But with certain caveats. Some professionals have better reputations than others in terms of their view of the long term development / welfare of horses - esp those they produce to sell - so it's certainly worth asking around some people in the know if you can.

In terms of the 'good enough rider' question... Rightly or wrongly, my theory goes I would be more wary of buying an older / more established horse from a pro. Young horses that haven't done a whole load should have the benefit of being well started, without having learnt to rely on perfect riding / stride etc all the time. This could be complete nonsense, but it's a logic that works for me! (Equally, pro's ride all sorts of horses and it's perfectly feasible that a more established horse may not need riding perfectly, but we're all trying to make concrete judgements on something thats far from concrete, aren't we?!)

My current horse was "privately" owned IYKWIM but had been sent to a pro to produce and event as a 4 and 5 year old during the season, back home to be turned out over winter. She had been beautifully started / schooled, has (on the whole!) lovely manners on the ground, is no hassle to load / shoe / dentist / vet all the stuff that we one horse owners can afford to spend time pratting around on but pro's just don't and won't put up with on the whole (of course she may have been good at this anyway, but I do think there's more often a no nonsense approach evident in young horses started by pro riders). And she's truly an old head on young shoulders in terms of out at competitions - she's quite babyish at home sometimes but like a horse three years older out at events and especially on the XC course / in the dressage arena.

Some things I have learned though, which I think prob apply mostly to low-level horses. (These are things that have come up with mine and which having then spoken to lots of other owners / instructors about them seem to happen a fair bit in that specific situation):

They sometimes skip bits of their education esp if they're produced to sell, or if there's an owner in the background who's in a rush to see them out competing. I'm sure they had a plan to fill in the gaps later in the way they'll have time to but we amateurs may not have. So for example, mine had a fab pre novice record at 5 but wouldn't know what to do with a grid or pole work. She'd get lovely scores at 90/100 dressage but was really just looking flashy (which she does very well!) - so we were essentially starting from scratch in terms of developing strength and proper straightness to work through properly. Again, partly that's just being young, but the stage of her 'proper' work at home was a good way behind her performance at competitions, if you get what I mean.

Another thing is that they are used to a pro's way of doing things: so she'd tie up to the box all day every day if you wanted her to, but didn't have the first clue what to do when tied normally on the yard for tacking up etc, when I wanted to do that rather than doing such things in the stable. Nothing that was difficult, just observations really.

And on the BIG plus side, names have a name to protect and you'll always know how to find them... so I would definitely feel safer buying from someone who has a reputation to protect.
 
I must confess that I would be wary but as others have said go in asking lots of questions, take someone knowledgable whose opinion you trust and go with your gut instinct.

When buying A an old Grade A schoolmaster I was faced with these issues and went for one who had belonged to a younger rider and not a pro, figuring if the horse went for someone of a similar-ish age (mid teens) then we had the best chance of it working out (which it did).

Best of luck.
 
It would entirely depend on who the pro is, as people have already said there are good and bad ones. A good pro would tell you if you are not good enough for the horse and bad one would sell you a 3 legged donkey!!!
 
BBH said:
My personal view is to take a pro with you when you look and go with yours eyes open.

I was based at a pro's yard for a while and this particular person knew all the tricks in the book to show off the horse in a way to hide its weaknesses and short comings.You'd have to have been in the trade to know what was happening.
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Hmm, I think this is my worry. It's only after getting the horse back and using a softer/less skilled riding approach, you suddenly find you have a different horse to the one you bought! I have a few broken horses so can do without another and know pros can mask a hint of weakness even for a vetting.This one seems well priced compared to the rest of the rubbish out there, but me being cynical, is thinking whats wrong with it!:rolleyes:

ihatework said:
I would be very wary, and to be honest would steer clear of any fully produced pro horses, especially by men. I may consider YR/lady produced.
I was bitten quite badly (my own fault really, very naive) by a horse produced by a 4* male.
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I also would not buy from a male rider for similar reasons. This one is female produced, only done one season eventing, but done well.

charlimouse said:
I think it depends on the horse and the Pro. Having bought a horse from a well known male pro, I don't Think I would again. Nothing wrong with either the pro or the horse I bought, but it did take a long time to convince him that I was worth listening to being a 5'2" female. He was also very much used to being on a pro yard and having a very set routine. When I first got him he didn't know what to do when I turned him out! In the end it all came right and he was a fab horse. But it definately isn't an easy option IME.
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I am kind of at the stage, where an easy life would be good, after years of battling with lame horses.:mad: The horse would be in a routine as no diy at the yard, so hopefully that wont be so much of a problem.

TarrSteps said:
It completely depends on the horse and how it's been produced. You would have to go and see it, ride it and discuss the situation with your own trainer/coach/whatever to see if the horse fits your needs. Just because the horse goes for another amateur is no guarantee it will go for you, either.

As to wasting the pro's time or being embarrassed. . .would you feel that way if you were buying a car? It's the pro's job to ride and sell the horse, they have no reason or right to be anything less than business-like and helpful. If a pro did treat myself or my client badly then that would be a reason to head for the door but that would be the pro's problem not mine and he/she would have potentially lost a sale (and I, personally, might be inclined to tell then why! ;) ) but I would say the same for any seller. In fact I've probably seen more badly behaved, rude private sellers over the years than pros!

If you like the horse, ring up. Be honest in the initial conversation and listen to what the pro says. I'd also advise taking someone with you to see it, for moral support if nothing else.
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Thanks for that. I think over time you loose your confidence and have never been good at riding infront of other people.:o I know what I can cope with or not fairly early on, so if not happy would just get off, rather than battling on.

I may brave phoning and just be honest, suppose I have nothing to loose. There seem to be so few nice horses out there that are not overpriced at the moment.:eek:

Thanks, to those replied so far, definitely food for thought.:)
 
Have you looked at the pro riders record on the BE website, and tracked how the horses she has ridden and then sold have gone onto do for other people, especially amateurs? This will give you a better idea of whether she turns out horses suitable for amateur riders.
 
I have just done this. I bought a SJer, who is rock solid at 1.20, with the odd 1.25/1.30 on his record. And he was produced and ridden by a man!!

My logic was:
1. I know he can jump.
2. He's experienced and, if I get it right, he can teach me.
3. I don't want to do 1.30 SJ, I want to event to Nov. Nov shd be well within his capability in absolute tems, assuming he has the head for it.

I was of course concerned about being unable to ride him correctly, so this helped me to test whether we would work:
1. When I tried him, I got him wrong to a few fences - not intentionally, it's just what I do on strange horses! He kept jumping.
2. I watched him at a show. He spooked wildly, two strides before a huge 1.20 oxer, came sideways on nothing of a stride, tried to jump anyway, knocked it down and carried on unfazed. This was a good thing!! It meant he'd go off a duff stride and wasn't fussed by having an awkward jump.
3. I took him xc schooling and he was super game with everything.

So far, all is going well. We were second in an unaff 90 and we were clear in the time XC round our 1st BE 90.

At said BE, though, I learnt a v important lesson. We heading for a SJ clear, then we had a stop at the last. Talk about mortified - a stop, in a 90, on a 1.20 horse. Jeez. The reason was, I switched off, took him for granted and thought we were home. A pro wldn't have done that. So, note to self, ride each fence, even the last and no matter how small.

There were some alarm bells, he had apparently gone to a young rider, who cldn't ride him, purportedly was scared of him.... but I liked the horse I saw, I still do, and I think this was the right decision.

I think attitude is key - he has to be able to forgive your mistakes. Try and get a feel for whether you think he will. Also - it will encourage you to up your game! This is what I am hoping, anyway! That can only be a good thing.
 
TGM said:
Have you looked at the pro riders record on the BE website, and tracked how the horses she has ridden and then sold have gone onto do for other people, especially amateurs? This will give you a better idea of whether she turns out horses suitable for amateur riders.
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TGM, thanks a good point. Having looked up said pros record, she seems to keep most/all that i can find over last few years, either owned by her or 'owners' not sure. So sadly not much help. Obviously does not deal many?

Sorry, heading out the door, so shall reply to others later.
 
I bought my current horse from a pro - it didnt make the grade for her and she was honest about that - BUT since my level is currently BE80 and may reach 100 one day thats no problem. He is a friendly loving, well mannered gentle giant of a horse. Nothing has phased him yet.

This weekend we did a Sponsored ride - he got excited for the first time since I have had him. Day before we did our yard show where he won the ridden showing, the Novice dressage, the SJ, the bean bag race, came 2nd in the bending and 3rd in the sack race! We did the Le Trec course and he walked over the tarpaulin like he has done it all his life. Spookproof!

The only problem was he wasnt muscled up enough and thats only coming now with time and basic woik - agree that some steps might be missed in the rush to get to 1* and above.
 
Andiamo said:
Pros: it will have been correctly trained. It will be used to working hard and should have a good work ethic. It will have been out doing things, seeing the world with a confident rider on board.

Cons: the pro may be so disciplined and consistent, that the horse doesn't dare "try anything" cheeky. When an amateur gets on, the horse goes "Wipppeee" and proceeds to take the mickey big style.

Someone said to me once, it's better to buy a great horse from an amateur rider, than it is to buy an average horse from a pro.
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Andiamo, this is a concern, that if not as disciplined it will start to take the P***. Although I suppose most horses will test a new rider, though some more than others.

philamena said:
I would, if I liked the horse - and have done. But with certain caveats. Some professionals have better reputations than others in terms of their view of the long term development / welfare of horses - esp those they produce to sell - so it's certainly worth asking around some people in the know if you can.
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May ask around about said professional, thanks.

In terms of the 'good enough rider' question... Rightly or wrongly, my theory goes I would be more wary of buying an older / more established horse from a pro. Young horses that haven't done a whole load should have the benefit of being well started, without having learnt to rely on perfect riding / stride etc all the time.
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This horse is in its first season eventing so may not be so reliant on its rider getting everything right. But then again..;)

HotToTrot said:
I have just done this. I bought a SJer, who is rock solid at 1.20, with the odd 1.25/1.30 on his record. And he was produced and ridden by a man!!

I was of course concerned about being unable to ride him correctly, so this helped me to test whether we would work:
1. When I tried him, I got him wrong to a few fences - not intentionally, it's just what I do on strange horses! He kept jumping.
2. I watched him at a show. He spooked wildly, two strides before a huge 1.20 oxer, came sideways on nothing of a stride, tried to jump anyway, knocked it down and carried on unfazed. This was a good thing!! It meant he'd go off a duff stride and wasn't fussed by having an awkward jump.
3. I took him xc schooling and he was super game with everything.

I think attitude is key - he has to be able to forgive your mistakes. Try and get a feel for whether you think he will. Also - it will encourage you to up your game! This is what I am hoping, anyway! That can only be a good thing.
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Thanks, I think this is sound advice. I don't mind the horse having an odd stop if I don't ride properly as at least it is teaching me something, but at the same time if it throws in the towel, if i plant it or stand it off a bit, then it will end up being demoralising.

Good luck with your new horse.:)


coffeeandabagel said:
I bought my current horse from a pro - it didnt make the grade for her and she was honest about that - BUT since my level is currently BE80 and may reach 100 one day thats no problem. He is a friendly loving, well mannered gentle giant of a horse. Nothing has phased him yet.

This weekend we did a Sponsored ride - he got excited for the first time since I have had him. Day before we did our yard show where he won the ridden showing, the Novice dressage, the SJ, the bean bag race, came 2nd in the bending and 3rd in the sack race! We did the Le Trec course and he walked over the tarpaulin like he has done it all his life. Spookproof!

The only problem was he wasnt muscled up enough and thats only coming now with time and basic woik - agree that some steps might be missed in the rush to get to 1* and above.
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I suppose this is what I am looking for, but they are hard to find. Most are advertised as having a lot have scope and talent to go up the grades and I just want to enjoy up to pre-novice and maybe tackle a novice if things go well in time.
 
I bought a horse from a pro last year, after a long time away ( ie 20 + years) from competing. I rode the horse in the school and fell in love with him and bought him. I know I should have done much more, but loved him and I wasnt capable of doing more then. He had done 1 season with her. Its been a very very steep learning curve, but its turned out well. As a previous person said, you can't be a passenger - they expect to be ridden, but thats very good for your riding!
Happy to say who it was and give more detail if you want to PM me.
Good luck
 
I did it was showjumper who was great a 1.30 but did not have the scope to go on.
I so much fun with her she was disciplined and hard working I did everything with her she was well priced as the owner wanted her to have the right sort of home I loved every day I had with her and she loved the life and attention on the little yard , it was a great sucess.
 
It really depends on the horse and how it's been brought on. The alternative way of looking at it is would you want to buy a horse that has gotten into all sorts of bad habits due to its amateur rider?

I've bought two horses from professionals. One was a SJ TBxConnemara who did exactly what it said on the tin. He knew his job, loved his job and was a pleasure to own. He had been produced with the amateur owner in mind, he had been taught to find his stride, lengthen, shorten and take off from weird angles. I once saw a clinic with the professional rider where he explained how he trains his youngsters and it was exactly my horse down to a T.

I also bought a WB dressage horse ridden by a former Olympic rider at one of the top yards in the country but he was only rising 6 so he hadn't progressed too far. He is lively but he always knew his job and I have had loads of fun with him as well although he has progressed at snail's pace with me, whereas with the professional he would be much, much further along. My instructors have always popped on him every so often which I find very useful, but I have had to make sure they didn't do too much with him so that he wouldn't overtake my abilities (when I was pregnant and he was learning flying changes with my instructor he was almost too buzzy for me when I got back on, but I have managed to 'lull him to sleep' again!).

(I have bought two other horses from professionals but they had only had them for a few months so not sure if that counts).
 
Talking about show jumpers here: I think its more to do with how careful and talented they are than who produced them. A super careful horse will often put in a stop rather than jump from a duff stride and have a fence down, which can be harder for an amateur to deal with as we are often not super accurate. Obviously if this happens too often confidence is lost, horse needs to go back to pro for tuning up etc. For this reason I think amateurs are often better with a slightly less careful horse who is happier to jump from a less precise stride - the type of horse that doesn't lose too much confidence by having a pole or two.

Its also a fine balance between how good a brave horse is for an amateur - too brave on a dodgy stride can be downright dangerous, but a bit helpful is essential.

Horses will be happy to help out when the fence is well within their comfort zone - a horse with 1.60m scope will take a pretty bad rider round a 1.30 as they can often get themselves out of trouble, if you're going to be very inaccurate round a 1m class, you probably need a solid 1.20 horse to help out.

I think this is worth bearing in mind when buying from a pro - a horse that has scope for a 1.30m class and does that well with a confident and accurate rider, is probably not likely to do so well at that level with a less good rider. So us amateurs are definitely better off buying a horse with more scope than we "need" for that reason.

Obviously there are some very good amateurs who can produce/place horses correctly, so I think its more to do with judging the way the horse has been ridden - is it foot perfect to each fence jumping at the limit of its scope, or is there more in the tank to help out if needed?

In short, a horse that jumps a 1.30 class clear with an average amateur is often a "better" horse than one jumping the same class clear with a pro (obviously taking scope, carefulness and talent as well as all extra factors, age etc into account).
 
I also think you have to be realistic with why a pro is selling a horse - if it is brilliantly talented, they would most certainly be keeping it themselves. They are likely to have gotten the best out of that horse, or at least know where its potential ends, even though it might be advertised as a "prospect". Obviously there are many exceptions to this - lack of time, money etc, and its not necessarily a bad thing - I for example do not need a horse with the scope to jump at the Olympics - just something that is worth bearing in mind.
 
A lot depends on the horse. Sometimes it can be difficult to follow in the footsteps of a pro and get good results.
Having said that I have a horse with a pro who is for sale and she is the easiest, most straight forward genuine little horse. ANYBOdY from a young teenager to a mum could ride her and get good results.
So I would say don't let it put you off entirely, but sometimes the less straightforward horses will quickly take advantage of the less experienced rider .
 
I bought a dressage horse from a well known yard in the south of England with a resident olympic rider.

The horse was as described and passed the vet. However, the totally regimented lifestyle of horse walker, lunge pen, schooled, washed and put away 7 days a week made for much anxiety when I got him home.

He had never been turned out and had done little hacking, remarkably he was excellent in traffic.

It took the best part of a year to get him used to his new home and a 'normal' life for a horse. He won first time out but that was tempered with severe lifestyle changes for him and a lot of worry for me.

Looking back I was very silly to think he would enjoy his new lifestyle when he was so brain washed. Eight years on and he has taken us to places most horse owners can only dream of, so I would not deter anyone from buying a professionallly produced horse, but do look at the bigger picture in terms of lifestyle and routines.
 
Think eventers can be a little different. They often have to sell on Horses they would rather keep to fund themselves - my YO has put up her 2 best prospects as needs to sell one. Yard is heavily divided as to which one should be sold!
 
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