amateur riders and expensive horses

Personally, having bought (to me, and my limited budget) expensive horses/ponies...and then been given others...well every single one teaches you valuable lessons.
An expensive horse comes with expectations, pressure and very often jealousy from others... a 'gift' horse comes with none of these.
From my own experience...they have all taught me much about myself.
Honestly though, the most joy has come from the gems I have found myself owning, and have turned out to be far more than I ever dreamed of. :)
 
I think so long as an amateur understands that they need to invest in the personal training and/or support required to keep a performance horse excelling at (and most importantly, enjoying) its job, the enjoyment of riding a high quality horse to me almost makes any argument (money aside) redundant!
I've got 2 that would fall into your category and they've brought me huge enjoyment and understanding of a new discipline at a point in time where I was almost ready to pack it all in. And I'm so in awe of how they can move and perform, to be honest I'm not really bothered whether we 'cut it' in the show pen or not, or whether I make a muppet of myself, because just to feel what they are capable of and happy doing is such a thrill. I'm not going to be riding horses for ever, so I want to make the most of learning to ride super-dooper horses while I can. And if it all goes belly up and I make a total dog's dinner of it, I've still learned lots, they're happy and well cared for, and we'll sit down share an apple or two, no hard feelings!
 
Hen said:
I think so long as an amateur understands that they need to invest in the personal training and/or support required to keep a performance horse excelling at (and most importantly, enjoying) its job, the enjoyment of riding a high quality horse to me almost makes any argument (money aside) redundant!
I've got 2 that would fall into your category and they've brought me huge enjoyment and understanding of a new discipline at a point in time where I was almost ready to pack it all in. And I'm so in awe of how they can move and perform, to be honest I'm not really bothered whether we 'cut it' in the show pen or not, or whether I make a muppet of myself, because just to feel what they are capable of and happy doing is such a thrill. I'm not going to be riding horses for ever, so I want to make the most of learning to ride super-dooper horses while I can. And if it all goes belly up and I make a total dog's dinner of it, I've still learned lots, they're happy and well cared for, and we'll sit down share an apple or two, no hard feelings!
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^^^ this in a nutshell :)
 
my dad spent stupid money (around the 30k mark) on timberland because our previous horse didnt perform under pressure (we paid around £10k for him in 2005).

i was lucky - my first horse cost £5000 inc tack and i shared him with my dad. think we may have paid a bit much for him - hard to tell as we were living in dubai at the time - but he was a wee star who brought me on in leaps and bounds.
 
Spending a lot of money on a horse is no guarrantee that you will click with it and do well at competitions, but then again neither is spending a small amount of money on a horse! Horses are tricky, each one is different and finding the right one, especially for a job as difficult as getting an amateur to be competitive, is just tough.
 
What I'd really like to know is how do people actually come up with that kind of money?? 10k is serious cash and all the other costs that go along with horses really add up!

So how have those of you with expensive horses paid for them? What jobs do you / your parents do?

I am in my 20's so still young / early in my career but I can't ever imagine having that kind of cash spare! Coming up with 2k for my boy was hard enough!

Apologies for being nosey!
x
 
Princess P said:
What I'd really like to know is how do people actually come up with that kind of money?? 10k is serious cash and all the other costs that go along with horses really add up!

So how have those of you with expensive horses paid for them? What jobs do you / your parents do?

I am in my 20's so still young / early in my career but I can't ever imagine having that kind of cash spare! Coming up with 2k for my boy was hard enough!

Apologies for being nosey!
x
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i suspect that most people have worked very hard and saved up. some lucky people will have had them bought by rich parents (who also probably work very hard and have saved up) or have been left money :)
 
Princess P said:
What I'd really like to know is how do people actually come up with that kind of money?? 10k is serious cash and all the other costs that go along with horses really add up!

So how have those of you with expensive horses paid for them? What jobs do you / your parents do?

I am in my 20's so still young / early in my career but I can't ever imagine having that kind of cash spare! Coming up with 2k for my boy was hard enough!

Apologies for being nosey!
x
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My parents weren't mega rich so the ponies I had were all quite cheap. I worked hard on my education and when i left uni I got a well paid, good job for an investment bank. Having been in that job for a few years or so, i had the money to buy my first expensive horse. I also stayed at home when i was at uni and in the first few years of work so this helped me to save up! The upside of the job is the money which allows me to buy pretty much whatever i need for my horses and not worry everytime i get the vet etc (without sounding flash or anything). The downside is the hours and the stress which makes it difficult for me to spend the time with the horses that i would like to, however i am sure less well paid jobs are also hard and stressful so I can't moan.
 
^^^^^ ditto ^^^^^

I am in my early forties, didn't go to uni and so have been working for appriximately 25 years now. I too work in an investment bank in the city ( i IT though) and have worked my way up to a very good salary. The downside is i leave the house at 5.30am each morning and don't get back to the yard until about 7pm...on a good day ! This means i also have to pay someone else to do my horses for me at this time of year.

For what it's worth, £10k is still a lot to spend on a horse...but it isn't inconceivable by any means.

The horse i just lost after 5.5 years cost me £7.5k...so spread over the time we had him that was less than £1500 per year...or put another way, just over £100 per month for every month of ownership. Compare that to the £400 - £500 per month that it cost to keep him on livery / shod / clipped / vaccinated etc and the £7.5k pales into insignificance :-O
 
Princess P said:
What I'd really like to know is how do people actually come up with that kind of money?? 10k is serious cash and all the other costs that go along with horses really add up!

So how have those of you with expensive horses paid for them? What jobs do you / your parents do?

I am in my 20's so still young / early in my career but I can't ever imagine having that kind of cash spare! Coming up with 2k for my boy was hard enough!

Apologies for being nosey!
x
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I work in a bog-standard job for a bog-standard wage, and am fully self-supporting. Obviously, since I don't count as one of life's high fliers, some things need to give - the usual suspects: nice car, clothes, meals out, holidays etc; but I recently figured out that pouring time and money on propping up and maintaining my bog-standard house was nowhere near as fun as selling up, renting and having fabulous horses. The way I look at it, I refuse to have a performance horse and not put the time and money into ensuring it is properly maintained; training and keep costs, and my competition fees, are all the same, regardless of whether my horse is talented or not - so I am prepared to put my money into maintaining a talented horse that brings me great pleasure, both as a rider and an owner. It's a simple question of priorities, not so much of 'spare cash'.
 
Similar story to supanova here. My uncle died and his horses ended up coming to us which was how I got my first horse as a teenager. We had a little yard then and I spent most weekends working at the yard. My current horse I have had for 15 years, he cost 7.5 k and it was a mix of insurance money and money I inherited after my grandad died. I have worked for some 14 years as a corporate lawyer and the last couple of those abroad. Having not paid any tax for a couple of years I have saved for my next horse which I want to be something really special. I'm lucky but the hours and stress mean I don't want to do this forever.

Also rambo's point is a good one. Cheap horses pretty much cost the same to keep as expensive ones.
 
I've never paid anything like that, but have picked up a couple of well-bred youngsters for much less than their original price tag due to problems with the owner/other issues. What I will say, is that compared to the two bog-standard good allrounders I have, they are in another league, and require another league of riding. When they are older, they will both make fab schoolmasters, but not yet. It is easier to get a good, quick SJ round at a lower height on an allrounder than a talented SJ bred baby (because the allrounder will forgive your mistakes!), yet the baby will clear over 1m as if it isn't there and still be hungry for more, pinging so much over the jumps that she'll easily ping you out if you're not careful.

My dressage girl is sharp as anything, spooky, reactive and responds to every slight shift of weight. Get it right, and she falls into a beautiful outline, will collect up, lengthen, whatever with just the lightest signal - getting the movements right first time she's ever asked. To compete her successfully, my riding needs to go up a notch or six, and there's a lot of lessons coming!
 
I could never have come up with the money I paid for my rising 5 year old... But I decided to take a risk and took a loan out to buy her! It was a big risk, but hopefully one that is paying off!
 
I have no problem with the price tags some Amateurs are prepared to pay, some amateurs really do work hard & really do well. Others that are part of the "i want everything now & dont want to work for it" are the dissaster stories we hear of.

Ive never paid anything near 10k for my horses, but i have to say i had to buy either very young horses or horses that where "problem horses". My WB was one of the Problem horses & if he hadnt of been such a mixed up horse i can honestly say he would of been in the 15k price bracket, with his breeding & movement. Lucky for me he wasnt & we worked together.

My latest horse is a PRE & he also has cost no where near 10k ive been very lucky to of found him the price i paid was due to the economic climate atm. But again he's rising 4yo so all the hard work is on me again. But i enjoy it thank god & it is nice to think you've added value to your horse no matter if you buy to sell on or not.

With any horse you have to make sure that your buying something that you can work with.
 
Hen said:
I work in a bog-standard job for a bog-standard wage, and am fully self-supporting. Obviously, since I don't count as one of life's high fliers, some things need to give - the usual suspects: nice car, clothes, meals out, holidays etc; but I recently figured out that pouring time and money on propping up and maintaining my bog-standard house was nowhere near as fun as selling up, renting and having fabulous horses. The way I look at it, I refuse to have a performance horse and not put the time and money into ensuring it is properly maintained; training and keep costs, and my competition fees, are all the same, regardless of whether my horse is talented or not - so I am prepared to put my money into maintaining a talented horse that brings me great pleasure, both as a rider and an owner. It's a simple question of priorities, not so much of 'spare cash'.
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I put my hand up and admit I paid a lot for Mini TX's horse, but she is worth every penny of it. However, I do sometimes resent the fact that other people question how I was able to do it. I am an ordinary person, I dont come from a wealthy background, in fact,I am from very humble beginnings. however, I was fortunate enough to start my own busines 14 years and have worked my butt off to make it what it is today. Sometimes it was a queston of paying staff, suppliers, rent etc, and not paying myself. In fact for my first 3 years I didnt even draw a wage because I couldnt afford to, and then for a year or so after it was pretty much around what the minimum wage is now. I have worked, very, very hard and have managed to save. I also have a very good job now, which is the fruit of my labours - that is how I managed to afford and keep an expensive horse for an amateur rider.
 
Well, I really would not class a horse costing £10k as expensive!! That is considered cheap in most parts of Europe ;)

"Expensive" here normally means a six-figure sum! A lot of well-bred *foals* exchange hands for £10k. One of my own foals cost around that figure (And yes, he is worth every penny :D ).

£10k for an adult horse really is very, very little money in dressage terms.

I really don't see the problem. Most people will spend more than £10k on a car, why would it be any different for a horse?
 
FrodoBeutlin said:
Well, I really would not class a horse costing £10k as expensive!! That is considered cheap in most parts of Europe ;)

"Expensive" here normally means a six-figure sum! A lot of well-bred *foals* exchange hands for £10k. One of my own foals cost around that figure (And yes, he is worth every penny :D ).

£10k for an adult horse really is very, very little money in dressage terms.

I really don't see the problem. Most people will spend more than £10k on a car, why would it be any different for a horse?
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Money being relative here! It's quite easy with horses (and houses!) to lose sight of how hard most people would have to work to earn £10K!

And I happen to know the chief exec of a major hedge fund has never paid more than £1200 for a car and never more than £2K for a horse...!
 
Well, if you consider that the average price of a youngster at the last PSI auction was £150k (!), and, at the other end of the scale, average price of youngsters at most non-elite warmblood auctions is always around £10k (much higher for elite auctions...and non-elite horses are generally not good enough to be pro horses, so definitely aimed at the amateur, even non-competitive market)...you'll see where I am coming from.
 
i think it depends hugely, as ever, on the horse.
i've never had a 'made' horse, but i was lucky enough to be able to buy 2 very very nice young horses from Vere Phillipps many years ago. neither had evented at all (both had SJed with him, and one had also SJed in Ireland before he bought her) and neither had been mucked about with on the flat. I was a real amateur but with a lot of good instruction I got the first to 2* before he got injured, and the 2nd to 3*, ditto. they were expensive by my standards, but worth every single penny, because they had no man-made problems at all, and both had oodles of ability for what i wanted to do. that's why i recommend him to anyone lucky enough to be in the same boat.
by contrast, 2 of my friends paid very big bucks for Advanced horses from a top International event rider, and neither could ride 1 side of the horse. one friend in particular was an exceptional little jockey, BUT there's no comparison between a small young female and a tall, strong, very experienced male rider... just because a horse has 'been there and done it' does not mean that another rider, amateur OR professional, will be able to get along with it.
a 'schoolmaster' is a very difficult thing to quantify. to some people it is a push-button ride which does the right thing as long as the rider does a reasonable job. xc versions of this are easy to spot, they love the game enough to forgive enormous screw-ups on top, and can be very 'point and shoot'. the other type of schoolmaster is an exact mirror of the rider, and only goes as well as the rider rides it. (easy to spot in many 'dressage schoolmasters' imho)
also, huge pressure comes with expensive or high-profile horses, and sometimes there's enough pressure already, be it self-imposed, family expectations, PC, or whatever...
 
I have only ever had cheap horses, as that is all I can afford, and I would be worried about buying an expensive one if it would break.

Advantages of cheap ones: Henry: Had a very nasty habit of running around jumps and doing 180 degree spins on a hack to pi$$ of home with you. Cue learning how to stay on one as it does these tricks. Trigger: Ex-pro's horse, had rubbishy owner before me - if you dont ride him right he wont do it - cue me being thrown into the bottom of the jump when I got it wrong and expected him to take of like Henry would have done.

Disadavatages - you get other people's problems. Both Henry and Trig had obviously had moronic owners at some point. Unfortunatly with Henry, it was quite early on in life (6 ish we think), and he knew he could get away with doing what he wanted. In his favour, he had been in hunt service before moron, so he was a fantastic well mannered hunter. Trig had moron owner at about 11/12 - he arrived with certain isssues, but is now revertung to back to his more "true" nature, and when ridden he barely does anything naughty.
 
FrodoBeutlin said:
Well, I really would not class a horse costing £10k as expensive!! That is considered cheap in most parts of Europe ;)

"Expensive" here normally means a six-figure sum! A lot of well-bred *foals* exchange hands for £10k. One of my own foals cost around that figure (And yes, he is worth every penny :D ).

£10k for an adult horse really is very, very little money in dressage terms.

I really don't see the problem. Most people will spend more than £10k on a car, why would it be any different for a horse?
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Well either people get paid a lot more in Europe, or horse riding is a hobby only for the rich...!

I would not say that *most* people will spend 10k on a car either - I'd say fairly wealthy people would, but most people I know drive cars that are worth under 5k.
 
xspiralx said:
Well either people get paid a lot more in Europe, or horse riding is a hobby only for the rich...!
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LOL, salaries in the UK are the highest in Europe aren't they? Or among the very highest? Certainly far higher than in Italy ;)

But yes, in some countries riding (and especially dressage) is definitely a very elitist sport.
 
FrodoBeutlin said:
Well, I really would not class a horse costing £10k as expensive!! That is considered cheap in most parts of Europe ;)

"Expensive" here normally means a six-figure sum! A lot of well-bred *foals* exchange hands for £10k. One of my own foals cost around that figure (And yes, he is worth every penny :D ).

£10k for an adult horse really is very, very little money in dressage terms.

I really don't see the problem. Most people will spend more than £10k on a car, why would it be any different for a horse?
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Was discussing the expensive foals issue with a friend this am, her sister breeds these kind of foals and has no trouble selling 15 k 6 month olds. I was saying this (as in buying one) was not something I would do because you can't do anything with them for nearly three years plus you don't actually know if they will reach 3 with good paces and conformation and you have no idea of temperament. I'm amazed people do.

Expensive is relative as you say though. My next horse slush fund is substantial but talking to several people its obviously nothing out of the ordinary even though to me its once ina lifetime only money. And its going on a 6-10 year old not a foal!!
 
With expensive horses I do wonder how much you are paying for the 'seal of approval' from professionals who have realised the horse is above average?! I don't want to pay for that seal of approval! I would rather find the one that hasn't been spotted I feel I have a bargain then ;).
I know it's different for top level dressage and showjump bred horses as they are like frodo said worth 150k plus for babies, I think if you really want to reach top top level then you have to consider a horse like that. To me though that is outside the realm of 'amature'. I think of an amature as Joe bloggs who rightly or wrongly puts all their savings into a horse in the under 50k bracket to do low-mid level affiliated, I'm talking up to 1m30 SJ, Int eventing, Adv Med dr. Most people do not make higher then that as talent and dedication take over, something that is not possible for the majority of people who work full time and cannot physically put the hours required in.

These people and the horses in this bracket that we are classing as expensive I think do pay a lot of time for someone elses reputation or percieved knowledge in what makes a good horse.

I'm thinking of dealers that buy in Ireland a straight youngster with fashionable clover hill type bloodlines for under 4/5k and then flog it to us amature Brits for 10-15k and we are happy to pay for something that someone else has gone to the trouble of finding for us. In that case I really do not think you are buying 'exceptional' talent! You could have traipsed across Ireland and found it yourself sitting in a local breeders field!

I think some people like paying over 10k for a horse as it comes with the label 'my horse was expensive, he must be good'. People get security from paying lots of money as they feel happy they have got the best they could. You hear lots of stories how once people bump the price up on a horse they are selling it sells.

I think it's a very grey area! The level most people compete at they really don't need world beating paces/jump anyway, the right attitude in a horse will win them more prizes. I do appreciated how you become addicted to riding a horse with ability though. Even at a low level it feels amazing to ride one that really operates. It's a pleasure and it makes it feel easy. I couldn't ride something that didn't have ability, something that consistently had a pole or something who's paces mean you always struggle to hit the top spots in dressage would drive me crazy! Likewise something too flash that I couldn't get down the centre line with out it exploding would also irritate me, I wouldn't have the nerve to handle a horse like that. You don't need to spend tens of thousands to find a horse with ability but you do have to trust your eye and take a risk with something that costs the same to keep no matter the price tag. This is why I think people go to proven horse agents and pay the money.
 
imr said:
you don't actually know if they will reach 3 with good paces and conformation and you have no idea of temperament. I'm amazed people do.
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Well, that's kind of what the discussion is about. People in the know WILL be able to tell those things at that age, or at least they'll be able to make a good educated guess. Sure, ugly foals have grown up to be nice horses but badly conformed ones tend to stay that way.

And custom breeding definitely increases the odds you'll get what you want in terms of temperament, trainability etc. That's what the huge machine of sport breeding is about.

Of course things can go wrong and sometimes "good" will not be "good enough". Production also plays a huge part. As does luck. ;) But, at least ideally, people are paying that sort of money to narrow their odds.
 
Agree with TS 100%. Obviously buying a foal is more of a gamble as there is so much which can go wrong in three years, but the point is that a super-moving foal, however expensive, will always be far cheaper than a super-moving 3yo (who in turn will be far cheaper than a super-moving young PSG horse and so forth). I have no doubt that if my Belissimo was an adult horse, endowed with the very same paces he has now as a foal, he would probably cost ten times as much.

Normally if a foal has got a really good walk, and a super trot and canter, and good conformation, these things don't tend to change. Temperament wise, again there are no guarantees but I think with enough research and advice you get to learn which lines you want or want to avoid. There will always be exceptions to every rule, of course - that also needs to be taken into consideration.

Let's call it an educated gamble. Still a gamble, of course :D
 
I'd look at it slightly differently. I would say a lot of it depends on the rider...'amateur rier' could mean anything from hacker, to riding club competitor, affiliated comps rider, through to riders who work a full time 'normal' job but are working their way up the ranks into serious categories!

I would LOVE to think that one day I could be an Olympic contender...but realistically? Never going to happen! I know that my aims are to conquer the riding club comp scene, and perhaps some affiliated. So I bought a young, just backed horse for a reasonable sum....he has potential and will easily do what I'll be capable of and more.

I have the Ferrari WBxTB who could have taken me far far beyond my curent capabilities. Only hes broken, potentally permanently...and I would probably never have had the time to get as far as he;d have been capabe of - not through lack of dedication, but because I work a challenging full time job.

I think if a rider is genuinely destined and working towards greatness, then send the money....if not then spend what you need to get something to do well at what you are aiming at, and spend the rest on lessons etc.

I could have afforded the 10k horse, but I don't need one!
 
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