Amber Options

In your shoes id send her to RL event team in Sandbach. Both very good riders and both teach a lot of amateurs so wouldn't 'hot her up to much ' Plus you would be able to carry on with lessons with them both afterwards,and once you are back on board in theory you could do some smaller stuff to get your confidence up, and they could do some bigger stuff to give her some more miles on the clock. If at the end of it they thought she was too much for you, they would tell you. Both very straight forward to deal with.
 
Nothing much to add to the good advice already given other than you are not alone!! Reduced turnout, bad weather and limited riding are hitting us all, one way or another and it's really very difficult to get it right at the moment. My 18 year old connemara is coming back into work and disgraced himself on Friday hacking out, spending most of it jogging or bouncing, and then having a meltdown at the same place he had a previous meltdown-never occurred to me he might remember the incident after 2 months...! It hits the confidence and makes it much tougher to grit your teeth and carry on.

In your position, I would definitely get a pro involved, even just to hack out and school from your yard. Over the years I have done this many times for different reasons and it always helps both me and the horse out. Hope you heal smoothly!
 
OMG AE you poor thing!

For those saying 4/5 hours turnout etc is not enough, how many competition horses get even less that that!? Or on the continent where even leisure horses have next to none?

I assume you aren't having the ankle pinned? Tricky as when I did mine they pinned it which meant I could get up and around on it very quickly and that meant a super quick recovery as I was almost immediately doing physio (my own version.. aka riding ;) ).

If you can afford it I think I'd send her on schooling livery for that time rather than rough her off personally.

ETA for what its worth Boggle hasn't exploded for about 2 years, but at the moment feels the closest he's ever come to doing so (without actually doing it)... I'm having to make the rules seriously crystal clear to him and there is for the first time in a long time a little seed of doubt as to whether he will actually follow through on his hot air. Think they are all loopy at the moment!
 
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Michen said:
For those saying 4/5 hours turnout etc is not enough, how many competition horses get even less that that!? Or on the continent where even leisure horses have next to none?
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Well as ever it depends on the horse! If a horse copes on that then all well and good but if they are boiling over and injuring their rider as a result then it is something to be considered.

My ridden horse couldn't really care less whether he has 1 or 23 hours a day out in the field or anywhere in between. One of my previous horses just could not cope with being stabled at all so he lived out 24/7 except for one short stint of box rest.

For some horses it is the lack of physical interaction rather than the lack of field turnout that can put them in a stressful situation and makes them difficult to handle, this should also be considered and I think amber went from turnout in a herd to pairs (is that right AE?). That can have a bigger impact than people realise
 
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Rose had a meltdown last Monday although she had to cope with dire weather conditions and noisy builders, the real reason was that she'd not been ridden for three days, I hadn't cut her feed down and I'd not turned her out that morning because I didn't want to scrape mud off her before travelling down to AM and she is pretty fit ATM. If you can work out what went wrong on Sunday with Amber, you might find it helps.It was really bad luck that you got injured and i'm not surprised it's knocked your confidence but don't rush to make any decisions, give yourself a bit of time. Limited turnout for busy energetic horses like Amber can create a few problems, I think i'd worry that if she got enough hard work to keep her happy she might end up too fit, OK for a pro rider but not necessarily for everyone. You've had loads of really helpful posts, I hope they help you to see the way forward. TBH I'd probably go for turning away and then sending to a good pro rider to bring back into work, someone who recognises what you need from your horse who you can then work with to regain your confidence. Sending a hug, it's rotten luck and definitely not what you wanted with Izzy etc Bloody horses!
 
Poor you, you must be sore:(
Management wise, I'd take her off all hard food. Perhaps a pro could work at getting her listening rather than riding in a way that gets her fitter. If they could recreate situations where she can be difficult that would be helpful.
 
My horse is full of it right now and she lives out, it's partly a January thing.
But, you make the explosion more likely when you start cooping them up for hours so unless you commit to working them hard enough and getting them out the box on the walker/ hand grazing/ whatever as well.
I had a horse who couldn't go out in the winter much as he wouldn’t wear a rug in the field and needed clipping to get ready for Spring Intermediates, he had to be managed really carefully and it was the only time he would ever be generically naughty with bucking etc.
 
What an unfortunate injury, def. a bit of bad luck! Lots of really sensible ideas from people. I find that sometimes this kind of thing can actually end up being a positive, that's what I'd try to turn it into anyway. It's a great opportunity to have a rethink and get someone else on board, then hopefully get going again in the spring with better weather etc. At least it's you that's injured not your horse ;)
 
Might be worth next time you have an extended break from exciting things (winter's hard!) getting a pro on to do her 'firsts' each season? Maybe first XC training, gallops and comp?

Get the explosions of 'OMG THIS IS SO MUCH FUN!!!' out of the way and get back on her when she's just cheerful?
 
They can certainly change when fit. I had a mare who was a saint when less fit and a spooky little madam when eventing.

Really sorry to hear about your injury :( That must be physically painful and mentally very upsetting after all your progress. If I can help in any way that doesn't include riding Amber, I'm too old for that sharpness now ?, let me know.

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Oh dear I am sorry AE
I evented my hot mare off the field, she didnt stay in at all. That made it much easier. Would you have the option to turn her away until you are operational again and then keep her somewhere you could have her out 24/7? If shes fit now and you're off 10 weeks but shes out all the time, she'd be ready to go again at 90/100 after prob 6-8 weeks if she finds it easy anyway.
If needs be then you could basically just chuck her on hols from the end of the season until the light nights come back and not even try and ride at this time of year. Its not great for your practicing but you do progress much faster on a horse that isn't wired to the moon so you might end up in the same place anyway... and you have others to practice on
Its up to you ref a pro- you need ot be sure it is the right person and you are able / happy to put the money into it.
 
Bum bum bum! Not good news. Just wish I lived closer to you, problem solved ;)
A couple of thoughts....
If you turn her away for a few months just be careful you don't bring her back in to work close to spring grass time.
If you send her to a pro be very VERY careful who it is and what they do with her. Check on her very regularly.
 
JFTDWS - you didnt imagine it, yes I moved Amber to join 'please put me back in my stable' Deedee. Before that Amber had a lot of turn out. But before that she was on a show jumping yard with almost no turn out. I persuaded my YO to let my 3 go on a hill no one used as they considered it too risky for horses - steep and rocky - but totally fine as far as I was concerned. They had a lovely time on their hill till YO changed her mind and she had to come in. She also had several weeks of box rest in the summer. She likes turn out but never seemed overly bothered even she doesn't get it. But who knows what is going on internally.
 
Oh AE, I feel for you :/ I hope you recover well.

I think sending her to a pro is a good idea, and I think she is one that would benefit to be worked hard (mentally/physically) every day. The issue with that, is that she would need to continue to be worked at that level when she comes home - I think you probably acknowledge that. I think turning her away for 6 weeks first isn't a bad idea, 24/7 spelling off feed might bring her down off her pedestal a bit. Is there anyone who can ride her a few times before she is turned away, if that is what you choose? It wouldn't sit well with me for her to be turned away without a few rides where rider stays on, if she were my horse.

Good luck with what you choose, you really have been in the wars with Izzy and now this. Too bad I am on the other side of the world, she sounds right up my (hot chestnut mare) alley. I wouldn't think of selling her just yet, I think you have the ability and mindset to learn how to ride her. It might just take some time. Chin up and big hugs from Aus :)
 
Sorry to hear your news and hope you recover quickly. FWIW, this time last year my sane and sensible horse completely changed character at Somerford - even though he had been there on several occasions before. It was so extreme I was told it couldn't possibly have been the first time he had behaved like that and he was potentially dangerous - neither of which was true.

I think there is so much going on there - its a very busy place these days and I think in the right circumstances it can just blow their brains.

Don't make any hasty decisions - you will still be shook up and it takes a while to get your perspective back.
 
I'm really sorry you got hurt, I dont know you or your horse well enough to suggest what to do, but I can give you some general observations.

I think MP is so right, if this fall hadnt really hurt you, would you feel differently about your future with Amber? Sometimes whether you do or dont break something is just a matter of luck, it makes it so much harder if you do really hurt yourself as you have way too much time to overthink everything, whereas if you just a bit of a bruise you'd be back on her the next day to continue working together.

I do think as horses get older, fitter, stronger and more experienced they know what to expect more, and whilst they may settle better as the season progresses, a few of the "firsts" (eg first xc school, first fast work etc) can often be way more exuberant.

As for turn out, I am also a fan of lots of turn out, or living out if it suits the horse better, but even so, it really depends on the individual horse as to whether it makes a difference to their energy levels. It s of course true that lots of pro horses only have minimal turn out, couple of hours a day, but the difference is that they are generally worked at a much harder level, and by a much stronger, more experienced rider than the average rider, and even then you may well find they get out of their stables more than you might think.

All I would suggest for you at this difficult time is not to rush into anything whilst you are upset. I hope you heal quickly and find a solution that works well for you and Amber.
 
Personally would say turn her away for a few months holiday whilst you get started on healing (which may take longer than you think). When you’ve a better idea of when you’ll realistically be back on your feet then send her for schooling as you’re then more likely to be able to have the benefit of climbing back onboard whilst it’s all fresh in her mind rather than potentially having to pay for a longer stay than needed or still ending up turning away if you have complications with your leg
 
Just had a thought whilst riding boggle this am. Have you been hacking her much? I know you don’t like it but wonder if she’s having not much turnout and then only ever going in the school whether she’s just got slightly frustrated.
I think Boggle would be a demon if he didn’t have a good blast/hack at weekends..
 
I have been hacking her but only in walk/trot! So although she seems to enjoy getting out, it is a long way off a 'good blast'. I think in future I need to pay someone to hack her once a week. Though I do take her places like farm rides, gallops quite often. But not every week.
 
VRIN said:
I think there is so much going on there - its a very busy place these days and I think in the right circumstances it can just blow their brains.
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They were shooting there too. Could clearly hear the shots from the arena. I doubt that helped.
 
Hmm the hacking comments could be the missing bit, Skylla went a bit nuts in Dec, throwing shapes and running off with me, both of which were super out of character! She's a very buzzy, quick horse but has always been polite and snaffled mouthed. I took her to the woods, trotted and cantered the whole way round and she was changed horse for the better again, since then I've been making sure she has a good blast out hacking at least once a week to keep her sane.

I do think its always a balance for us hobby riders, turnout vs fitness vs sanity!

Topaz took years to accept limited turnout (8 hours was considered limited to her :rolleyes:) and was always a complete devil in winter, she also couldn't be 'too' fit, she has never really been fed hard feed either ;). Even when in full work, working towards PSG she got no hard feed and as much turnout as I could give her, as I am restricted by my working day so I couldn't physically work her enough to keep her sane otherwise, which would also have been a viscous cycle of upping her fitness which would have meant she needed more work o_O:eek:.

I think this is an unfortunate blip that was even more unlucky to have resulted in injury :(, I'd echo the others and say not to make too many conclusions right now. Turn her away or get a pro on-board, but get yourself healed and then go from there. When I bust my collarbone on Topaz I was a little concerned about my confidence when I got back on and she is defo not easy, but thankfully I was fine about it, though it did lead us to the dark side of dressage :p:eek:!
 
Ambers Echo said:
I have been hacking her but only in walk/trot! So although she seems to enjoy getting out, it is a long way off a 'good blast'. I think in future I need to pay someone to hack her once a week. Though I do take her places like farm rides, gallops quite often. But not every week.
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I m sure this is part of the problem, apart from when she is in the field the only time she gets the chance to stretch out and go really forward, that does not mean at gallop as a long trot up a steep hill can be just as beneficial to get the sting out of them, is when she gets on grass for a xc school or similar, finding someone to hack her properly for at least an hour every week could make a big difference to her attitude in general.
 
Sounds like she’s been hacking less than once a week albeit hacking occasional in walk and trot? Think that may be a big part of the problem. I do think most event type horses would struggle with that and 4/5 hours turnout.
 
I echo all the suggestions not to make hasty decisions and take time to let things settle after the weekend. Alot of it is bad luck of coming off and then getting injured.

Have had horses across a range of sharpness. The ones at the lower end of the range, I would keep in the night before an event to ensure complete rest and more energy the folllowing day. Phoenix is top end and she lives out 24/7 in a small herd of 4 (at home), she quite often spends 30min the morning of an event galloping around jumping the stream before I catch her - she is still (super) full of energy and enthusiasm at Novice level eventing. She only stables when we are stabling away at an event /for lessons and I always work her on arrival to help her settle (she is fine stabled away and settles in well). She would be a handful if stabled even during (just) winter at night. Being out 24/7 keeps her mind occupied and calmer. She is always super keen and ready to go, we bounce everywhere :) - and she bounces alot in the field even with 24/7 turnout!

Yes, she has become sharper and sharper when first take her out cantering /in the box /SJ (schooling or competing) /XC (schooling or competing) and she is quite wild at the first event of the season (and if she has a few months in between events during the season) but I get her focussed and working and she settles into working (and I know her better every year too which is a big help). Reilee also has become sharper at the 'firsts' each subsequent year as she knows (it all!). Again the key is to get moving forward, focussed and between hand and leg.

Have not seen you both in the flesh so can only relay my first hand experiences with a very sharp and keen horse. Living out 24/7 is key as is lots of varied hacking incorporating canter (range of pace) and hills - we tend to only walk on the road. She gets limited hard feed for her working level and I do it based on condition and behaviour /performance. It is more about her mind than her body, even when eventing Novice /Intermediate she only works 3 or 4 times a week (1 to 1.5 hrs each time) and max. of 2 of those will be schooling flat /jump in the field. I like her fierce independence and ability to think for herself - it makes her the machine she is XC, I have to manage her for her to be trainable and rideable (for me!). I would not want her any more explosive than she is on her current regime, I can make it work for us at current levels. As have said previously, I am sure that it was the first 6 months with her at 4, living out 24/7 and doing lots and lots of hacking alone (we had company for approx. the first 5 hacks with someone else riding another one of my horses) over the mountain tracks and getting her to settle and relax enough to have a loose rein without taking off, that was key. She needed to dial down her level of excitement for everyday life to become manageable every day and particularly when there was something more exciting happening (like any outing in the horsebox). Am sure a pro would have taken her much further than me already but I enjoy having (huge) fun riding her and she seems to love it here!

I think the key question is whether you want to remain Amber's main rider every day and at competitions long term. If the answer is yes then work back from that to determine options of how to get there, resist any apparent quick fixes that might actually make her less suitable for you long term. Am sure many pros and semi-pros would love to have a go with her but that doesn't make it right for you or her. Good luck with whatever you decide and remember that riding is only a (small) part of our relationship with our horses (as lowly P/T amateurs - hope you don't mind that description ;)).
 
milliepops said:
HHO will always come back and say not enough turnout ;)
Mine are getting about 3 hours a day at the moment and it certainly makes for lively rides, I do really try and work them every day to make up for the time spent in the stable. this is the best I can do in my area, most places randomly close fields for a week at a time, at least with this regime they go out every single day in winter.

But I would try and get more work into her if she was mine - this is fine to say after the event and doesn't help you now though!
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Mine has about 4 hours, about 6 days a week over winter (in when very wet for land to drain). It's not ideal but am lucky enough to be close to yard and work.

I make a huge effort to keep him busy and active - groundwork / in hand grazing / polework / long forward hacks over hills and turf / long reining / in hand work / lunging / TRT work / Sure foot pads / massage rugs etc.

I aim to get him out of the stable 2-3 times every day, to do something.

And I don't think he minds the limited turnout too much.

But it only works for us, as yard is 10 minutes from work and I have only him, and he's on livery, so I can dedicate the time to keeping him active.
 
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