sheep
Well-Known Member
Perhaps by intercepting the 'poor' speeding sales rep though, they are preventing an accident that may leave a granny in need of being saved..
Ambulance... Worth complaining about?
- Thread starter wench
- Start date
Perhaps by intercepting the 'poor' speeding sales rep though, they are preventing an accident that may leave a granny in need of being saved..
pennyturner
Well-Known Member
Perhaps by intercepting the 'poor' speeding sales rep though, they are preventing an accident that may leave a granny in need of being saved..
A rep doing 100 on the motorway isn't dangerous. A cop doing 80 in a 30 zone is.
(as are grannies on the motorway btw - I've stopped 2 from going up the off-ramp of the A34 in the last 10 years - one, complete with hair net, had her friend with her - who hadn't noticed!)
sheep
Well-Known Member
Oh I agree - nobody should be above the law!
A friend of mine encountered an elderly lady coming down the motorway the wrong way a few weeks ago - fortunately it was an early Sunday morning and traffic was very light so between him and other sensible drivers, they were able to get her turned round and heading the right direction :/
Annagain
Well-Known Member
As many others have said police (and I'm sure other emergency service drivers) do not put their lights and sirens on just to avoid traffic. My OH is a traffic cop and he would be thrown off the traffic department if he did this. The second they put the blues and twos on, everything is recorded. In traffic cars they have video whcih automatically activates when the sirens go on (think the footage you see on Road Wars / Traffic cops etc), but even in normal patrol cars speed is constantly recorded and every switching on of the lights and sirens. They simply wouldn't get away with using them inappropriately even if they wanted to.
Annagain
Well-Known Member
The cops doing 80 in a 30 zone could be on their way to save your daughter from an abusive partner, to break up a fight and stop your son from being beaten to death or prevent a child from being kidnapped. I hope you never need them in a hurry.
Even before my OH was a police officer I never understood the animosity towards the police from normally law abiding citizens. They run to situations other people run away from. These days in particular traffic officers are often called to "save grannies" and deal with things that aren't traffic related due to all the cuts going on.
Even roads policing isn't just about speeders - there was a case in court last week where 5 men were convicted of possessing and trafficking £5m worth of drugs thanks to my "speed cop" husband and his colleague stopping them on the motorway and searching their car. He's also found countless stolen cars, stopped wanted criminals (including a murderer)... oh and held the hand of a motorcyclist as he lay dying after a rep doing 100 on the motorway crashed into him.
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
A few weeks ago I was sitting at a red light behind a police car. The light seemed to be on red forever and I had started to wonder whether it was broken and 'stuck' on red. As I was wondering this the car in front of me stuck his blue light on and pulled through the red. Obviously I can't say for certain that he didn't receive some request to get somewhere in a hurry but it did seem like a mighty big coincidence to me!!
bliss87
Well-Known Member
I quite often think that people assume that emergency services just turn on there lights when stuck at lights in traffic etc because they wish they could do it to get out the way, putting lights a sirens on isn't without its risks to the individuals driving the emergency vehicle! My uncle had his lights/sirens when going through a cross roads to warn traffic, some one didn't give to houts about pulled out in front to which he swerved to miss them hit the curb and flipped the fire engine, he was retired off in his 30s from fire service because of the injuries he sustained.
Like people of said seconds/minutes can be the difference between life and death for someone and your horses where at least contained rather than riding down the lane then I can understand the concern
I can't praise emergency services enough when you meet them out on the roads when theyre dealing with an emergency. On a ride we came off the lane to site of a crash between a car and a motorcycle, the quick response had been there long enough to call the air ambulance, to which he asked us which was the quickest way out of the area we told them where we heading for and the witnesses cleared an area for us to get through, we then had the police and ambulance coming down this road with there lights and everything going and they turned everything off and slowed down more than your average road user!
Like people of said seconds/minutes can be the difference between life and death for someone and your horses where at least contained rather than riding down the lane then I can understand the concern
I can't praise emergency services enough when you meet them out on the roads when theyre dealing with an emergency. On a ride we came off the lane to site of a crash between a car and a motorcycle, the quick response had been there long enough to call the air ambulance, to which he asked us which was the quickest way out of the area we told them where we heading for and the witnesses cleared an area for us to get through, we then had the police and ambulance coming down this road with there lights and everything going and they turned everything off and slowed down more than your average road user!
DipseyDeb
Well-Known Member
Or on their way to a serious road traffic accident!!
Street_Skill
Well-Known Member
Completely agree with this. Plus traffic officers will also be advanced drivers. Not only have they done the standard four week police driving course (which *generally* speaking makes a police officer a more observant and safer driver than your average road user), they will also have completed an additional four week course making them far more observant, quicker to predict the actions of other road users and react to them and far, far safer when doing 80mph in a 30mph zone than your average rep doing 100mph on the motorway.
pennyturner
Well-Known Member
I wasn't attacking the role of the emergency services. However, only 6% of road deaths are on motorways (making them very safe indeed, compared to other roads), and average 20-30 people a year are killed in police-related RTA's (IPCC stats)... which is too many.
If ambulances can pass with care at speed (and they do), then so can police.
If ambulances can pass with care at speed (and they do), then so can police.
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
I agree that 20-30 deaths is too much. However, take 2013. 12 deaths, 10 of which are pursuit related. So, a Police driver sees an offender, maybe a drugged up or drunk driver, maybe a burglar and follows them. No allowed to "chase" any more, but follow. So, the driver then runs himself into someone or something and a death occurs.
I agree it is all too much death, but I do not know what else you expect the Police to do when offenders drive off. Go and have a cup of tea? Shake their head in despair and drive the other way? Or follow, and be blamed when stupid, adrenalised, drunk driver has an accident?
I am not aware that ambulances are ever in that position? To have to try to stop crazy /drunk/ offenders?
I do think that the various services are all under different pressures. The Police have the added burden that they are expected to put themselves in harm's way when they arrive. An ambulance will hold back from violence, it is not their job. Police will be listening to screams of colleagues needing help, in real time. So, different roles and pressures.
When you consider the number of miles driven by Police, and if you take off the "Police Related Collisions" where Police have not actually crashed at all, but have been involved in trying to apprehend someone who is not so skilled or careful a driver, then I think Police drivers do very well. As do Ambulance, and Fire.
Any drivers who fall below the standard are re-coursed, re-trained and possibly have their tickets taken off them.
YorksG
Over the hill and far awa
While I agree with most of the above, it can be incredibly frustrating when none of the emergency services will respond. Imagine being in the house of a mentally ill person who is threatening you, you have just informed them that are being detained to hospital, the ambulance won't come till the police turn up and the police won't come till the ambulance is there! I have actually been in that situation, no radio, no back up and no "double crew".
I have to say however that putting the sirens on when passing other vehicles is surely normal and how do those animals travelling cope with other odd noises on the road?
smellsofhorse
Well-Known Member
No I wouldn't complain.
Really what did he do wrong?
He put his siren on to get your attention then turned them off once he was passing and probably only just realised you could have a horse in there.
Really what did he do wrong?
He put his siren on to get your attention then turned them off once he was passing and probably only just realised you could have a horse in there.
RoughcutDiamond
Well-Known Member
I realise you're not moaning (and thanks for that ;-) ). I don't know what the weather was like but given you describe high hedges and trees I suspect the sirens were activated as an extra sensory warning of his impending overtake once around the bend and positioned close enough to you to start considering the manoeuvre. On a bright day the blue lights are not always easy to distinguish - I certainly use the sirens much more on a bright day than a dull one or at night time.
As for having "horses" in large letters on the back of the lorry, it may be obvious to notice under normal driving conditions but when you're weighing up the closing speed on the vehicle ahead, what actions that driver may take and how you will deal with these, how your speed relates to the vanishing point on the bend you're approaching, taking weather and road conditions into account and planning what you aim to do next, I still think potentially easily overlooked. Dealing with livestock etc was mentioned on the course and we spent many hours out on rural Scottish roads on the advanced driving part of the course. However, much of the emergency driving part of the course (i.e learning appropriate and timely use of the blues and various horns) was and will be done in urban areas simply to learn and practice how to negotiate heavy traffic, pedestrian crossings, complicated junctions etc.
As for local knowledge, staff can get punted to different stations around division on a whim, or may be out of their normal patch on an overtime shift so it isn't always the case that local knowledge is present. Or there may have been a new and therefore less experienced member of staff driving...
No harm in a letter to the Service ;-)
Only last year (so 5 years into emergency service career, and 6 years as a Driving Instructor prior to that, as well as 1st reserve for a job training Police drivers, so pretty damn good observation skills if I do say so myself lol) I came out of my station on a blue light run, initially without horns. Approached first crossroads which is open to the left and closed to the right and was weighing this up and a vehicle to overtake on the approach. Didn't notice the pedestrian walking away from me on the pavement to my left - activated the wail at the ideal moment for the overtake and junction but right behind the poor pedestrian - I have NEVER seen a non-athlete jump SO high!!!! It was completely unintentional, and more than a little comical, but I still feel a twinge of guilt whenever I think of it - just really glad he wasn't eating chips
RoughcutDiamond
Well-Known Member
See my reply to wench for the first bit ;-)
For staff working most of their time in rural areas I would hope that their hazard perception skills would be more likely to anticipate situations involving livestock.....
I work out of Glasgow and regularly get drawn out into more rural areas. Having grown up in rural Northumberland (as well as with all my various driving experience) I have a decent appreciation of rural hazards such as farm machinery, mud on roads, livestock escaping fencing, riders etc. However although my rural jobs are regular enough, the majority of my workload is in and around the city where such things are not seen. Therefore I doubt my colleagues would necessarily take account of such things automatically on a rural drive - there are many staff who rarely drive rural roads unless for work and so they are far less comfortable or confident on a rural run. Familiarity and all that.
We all run with sat nav screens now. These are similar to what you would find in a private car, but less up-to-date and certainly ours doesn't have any kind of highlighting of the things you mention. It is simply programmed to take us the most direct route - it will even take us under restricted height bridges for which we are too tall!! Crew local knowledge is the only saving grace here, IF it exists.
googol
Well-Known Member
I agree with this
RoughcutDiamond
Well-Known Member
Trust me, more than our job is worth to pull such a stunt! A job can come through at any time, just as a job can be cancelled and the crew "stood down" at any time. So if you see a blue light vehicle go through a junction, or overtake a long line of traffic, only to then cancel the lights please don't be under the illusion the blues were to suit the crew....it's pretty frustrating to have negotiated difficult traffic only for control to then cancel the job you were on, and we're more than aware that certain folk in society will think we're "at it". Driving on blues and twos is tough, dangerous and puts massive responsibility on the driver, who obviously also has at the back of his/her mind the knowledge of what they are going for - if it's a "proper" job it'll be a CPR ongoing, a major haemorrhage, a multiple vehicle RTC, a floppy baby not breathing - and yet that driver must have enough mental control that they don't allow that knowledge to influence their drive.
In the old days when the ability to monitor exact vehicle movements did not exist, maybe the odd rogue or two did occasionally use the blues to hop through a slow set of lights. Nowadays we can barely pee without someone knowing!!
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
The OH often gets a call over the radio for an immediate which may then be cancelled. Sirens on, sirens off. If he put on the sirens for no reason, he'd probably have his ticket removed. I don't believe he would dream of using them to move on a vehicle unless he was on an immediate early morning, no traffic and suddenly came across one.
Cheshire Chestnut
Well-Known Member
Absolute utter rubbish. Not one bobby would do this and risk their job/career for the sake of a cup of tea! What the public don't seem to grasp over and over again is that when you're sitting in a police car as a cop, you can get a job given to you over the radio at any point, whether that be when you're sitting in a line of traffic, at lights, in the middle of driving through a village - anywhere. The lights come and away you go within seconds. I have no idea why people automatically assume it's because you're fed up of waiting in a queue or something. (Believe me, the complaints come in thick and fast all the time about this). These ficional TV programmes that show all the police constantly being dispatched from a police station are so skewed - on a 10 hour shift you're lucky to even get back to the nick for a wee, let alone belting it back for your tea!
gembear
Well-Known Member
It just goes to show what perception people have of the emergency services, although these comments are tame compared to what else i've read/heard.
If only the joe public could give it a bash for a day, either paramedic, police officer or fire service and they wouldn't be able to sleep afterwards.
OP I can understand if they did a risky move with the sirens when you were riding it would be dodgy, however in that second they weighed up the risks and decided that was the best option for their safety, yours and any possible on-coming traffic. I know this sounds harsh, but at the end of the day ambulance crew are there to save lives, which outweighs your horse getting a spook.
If only the joe public could give it a bash for a day, either paramedic, police officer or fire service and they wouldn't be able to sleep afterwards.
OP I can understand if they did a risky move with the sirens when you were riding it would be dodgy, however in that second they weighed up the risks and decided that was the best option for their safety, yours and any possible on-coming traffic. I know this sounds harsh, but at the end of the day ambulance crew are there to save lives, which outweighs your horse getting a spook.
gembear
Well-Known Member
EventingMum
Well-Known Member
I was passed today by an ambulance with blues and twos on, I had a horse in my trailer heading to the vets. I pulled into the side as did other vehicles and it came from behind me (so could easily see I had a horse on board), I was very grateful the horse was sensible otherwise I could have had a very worried, panicky horse on board. The driver could see the road ahead so could have easily switched the siren off while passing me and put it back on long before approaching any bends or junctions. I felt it was probably a case of the driver not thinking but I must admit didn't think of reporting the incident.
wench
Well-Known Member
"Complain" is possibly the wrong description... My thought was along the lines of mentioning it to the station, as it maybe something that the training doesn't cover/not something that a more "urban" type of person may have considered.
As a slight asides, for those that have said you shouldn't take your horse on the road unless it's used to listening to sirens in trailers. I could quite easily have been towing a cattle trailer with a bull in it.
As a slight asides, for those that have said you shouldn't take your horse on the road unless it's used to listening to sirens in trailers. I could quite easily have been towing a cattle trailer with a bull in it.
RoughcutDiamond
Well-Known Member
I can understand how it may appear to any driver that an emergency driver "could have/should have" done "x,y,z" in response to any given situation. However, you're not sat in that seat, taking in and processing the information that they are at that time so there may be reasons for their actions of which you are unaware. It is highly unlikely that it was a case of the driver "not thinking" - true enough they may not have considered the horse in transit specifically - or perhaps they had but saw the potential for something else occurring, which might be prevented by continued use of the sirens, of which you were unaware.
We are actually taught to use continuous audible warnings during training. After all, if involved in a collision the first question to us is "were you using lights AND audible warning systems?" and if the answer is no to sirens then you must be able to justify it until you are blue in the face, and often even that is not good enough! It is only once out on the job in real life that the more experienced staff will encourage more discerning use of sirens, to take into account time of day, level of traffic, livestock etc etc etc.
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
And the point is ! I actually drive several bulls around and the trailer contains them as your box does the horse so any reaction from the animal is contained. I suspect the driver towing in that situation would not be quite so wound up about what might happen . I am afraid to say that my perception of drivers wiuth horses is that they very rarely have any idea what is going on around them only today I pulled out at a T junction controlled by traffic lights only for a horsebox with two women chatting away to fly across the front of me they had not merely jumped a red they were totally oblivious to it being there luckily I spotted it out of my periferal vision.
I am afraid that any of the emergency services will use sirens near any commercial vehicle as most times its the only way to make the driver aware you are there you do not get the same confirmation that you have been seen as you do when you see a car driver looking in their mirror.
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DipseyDeb
Well-Known Member
?? Did you mean to quote me?
Rocky01
Well-Known Member
I for one am seriously impressed with the emergency services. I've lived in London most of my life and now live in a village and have experienced them in both situations. In London you'll pretty much never get an emergency vehicle going scarily fast but that's down to lights, layout, traffic etc. The directional sirens most vehicles seem to have are fantastic, though occasionally confusing when they reflect back off buildings. I'm always impressed with how the drivers notice people randomly crossing the roads around them, cars coming out of driveways and junctions every where, road management systems and still do their job. OP, I'm sorry your horse was spooked and it's unfortunate but from my experience they don't do it for no reason.
Marydoll
Well-Known Member
Had an ambulance pass me the other day there when i was towing and coming down to a roundabout, lights and sirens blaring as they passed, the guys were in a hurry and if it was me or mine in the back of it needing the lights and noise to get to the hospital for emergency life saving treatment, or the crew to get to them in an emergency, the horse is just going to have to deal with it im afraid
orionstar
Well-Known Member
I work in a building opposite the main police station for the area, I am fully conversant under which circumstances they will use the sirens and lights and at what time. Change of shift is apparently 4.30! However an ambulance normally only uses the lights and sirens when they are trying to warn other vehicles they are there, so unless you actually think he's done more than this, or deliberately used the siren, then dont complain.
milesjess
Well-Known Member
How do you know it wasnt an emergency situation?
Its a public road, so transporting any horse you run the risk of emergency vehicles passing with lights and sirens. Unfortunately it's down to horse/ rider to be safe and able to cope with one passing by. Ideally the driver would turn them off as they pass but they are under no obligation to.
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