American Olympic Team & Christian Athletes to be Fed with Halal Meat

Here is an idea all, go to your local independent butchers who use local slaughter houses and meat. Ask them about the slaughter methods. Support the high-street, get better quality meat and be sure of the place it comes from. Equally if that way inclined trot along to a halal butcher. :D
 
So let's get this right - anybody who walks up to a healthy live animal and slits its throat leaving it to die in a field would be charged with animal cruelty but those who do it in a designated building are allowed to secretly sell it?
 
And all British lamb and chicken is Halal. In these cases all processes still meet the same stringent animal welfare requirements it is claimed and some animals are stunned prior to slaughter whether the meat is sold as Halal or non-Halal but all is Islamically blessed so it can be used for both the Muslim and non-Muslim market.
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Don't know anything about most of the post, but I have visited slaughter houses supplying hundreds of thousands of chickens for huge supermarket chains and none had anyone doing any "Islamic blessing" .... the standards applied for the slaughter were exactly what I'd expected, no more no less.
 
I am absolutely stunned (no pun intended) as I have just raised the topic if meat should be labled Halal or not with my colleagues.

Myself and one other want clear labling.

The other 4 said QUOTE 'don't care' and things like 'what does it matter, meat is meat'.

None of the people I work with are animal people, if you understand what I mean by that but I would have thought that they would care what is on their plate.

I am sat here deeply saddened and a little upset that the majority of people I work with show so little compassion towards how their meat is slaughtered.

One lady said but its their religion and I agreed, but also said that why should I have to have it too, she said that its your choice and doesn't get my reasoning that it isn't my choice if it isn't labled as such. Not sure if that makes sense but hopefully you get my meaning.
 
People don't realise how much suffering is caused to animals using the halal/kosher methods of slaughter. I think they 'just die' immediately which is what I was always led to believe. After reading Animal Aid and other sites I now know this is not the case and I am greatly distressed and appalled by how much suffering does go on. I have access to Ban Halal on Facebook. Suggest you all join and give your support. The photos are pretty horiffic but good to see what its all about.
 
Reading this I'm shocked by how many people are missing the point.
Its not an attack on Islam or Muslims. Neither is it about 'colour' or religion. I'd also like to point out it isn't racist as nothing derogatory has been said, neither have any stereotypes been mentioned, it is in no way offensive. Besides, Islam is a religion, not a race.

The problem here is CHOICE. I should know whether what I'm about to buy/eat is Halal. The people saying 'but it doesn't make any different to Christians' etc - Would you serve otherwise slaughtered meat to a Muslim without warning them? No you wouldn't. Would it make any difference to them if they didn't know? No. Would they be horrified if they eat it and it was? Yes, probably.

It isn't about terrorism or extremists or a mis-understood religion, its about choice.
I'm very shocked by how many adults on here can't seem to grasp this.

*Runs and hides.* :D
 
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The trouble is Elsiecat, that when a conversation (which this is) is started on one subject it will invariably spark ideas or opinions that lead to others more or less on the same subject, intended or not.
 
NoseyPosey said:
The trouble is Elsiecat, that when a conversation (which this is) is started on one subject it will invariably spark ideas or opinions that lead to others more or less on the same subject, intended or not.
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Nothing baffles me more than how whenever religion is mentioned people pull the racism cards out. I appreciate other opinions, I just think some people on this are entirely missing the mark :confused:
 
elsiecat said:
Nothing baffles me more than how whenever religion is mentioned people pull the racism cards out. I appreciate other opinions, I just think some people on this are entirely missing the mark :confused:
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Very true. We live in a very cosmopolitan society and pulling the racism card where no racism exists is effectively a type of censorship.
Correct labeling of food is a concern for all consumers.
 
horserider said:
Very true. We live in a very cosmopolitan society and pulling the racism card where no racism exists is effectively a type of censorship.
Correct labeling of food is a concern for all consumers.
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Honestly, sometimes I'm offended by what people seem to find offensive!
 
This is a QR for those who are offended that I have not called them a racist :)

I repeat, I am not offended, I just don't like hypocrisy, for example, I would be a hypocrite if I said 'I love eating dead animals. Grr, I just hate how animals have to be killed for me to eat them' or 'I disagree how this animal was killed in this way in the name of this religion, but not with how that animal was killed in pretty much the same way in the name of that religion, because there is less of that religion about these days, oh and I didn't know they did that anyway'.

But do take on board the point re labelling. It would be nice to see a label that said that the cow that made my Whopper burger that I had for lunch just now, passed away peacefully on a soft bed on straw while sad music was piped into the barn. But it was actually forced down a chute with all his other buddies and had a bolt put through it's head then it was hung upside down and a hook and bled out through it's throat, most likely.
 
Haven't read all the posts, so apologies if I am repeating something already said, but just wanted to add another view point to it.

I have been to the sheep abattoir used by Asda for all of their lamb. I was surprised prior to my visit to learn that all animals were slaughtered under halal practice (it would be too difficult to seperate out halal/non-halal carcasses, the volume of animals going through is huge). However, having seen every stage of the slaughter process, I can honestly say I believe there is no greater level of suffering for these animals than with standard slaughter - I stood and watched the animals be stunned and their throats cut, it was quick, painless, and the animals appeared to be in very little distress (and as a vet I think I am relatively well qualified to assess these points.) The holding pens etc are all designed to reduce stress, and there are strict procedures in place to ensure no animal goes through that isn't fit. The sheep toddle into the chute, are stunned and then a trained halal slaughterman cuts their throat immediately.

I do not agree with any form of religious slaughter that occurs without stunning, however I equally have no problem buying lamb from Tesco/Asda, because I have seen the process and am happy that the stunning they receive is adequate. Yes, I suppose ideally the meat would be labelled with Halal, but given that the only difference is method of actual death (captive bolt vs slit throat) and there is no difference in welfare, TBH my feeling is that it should make no difference to those of us who are only interested in welfare rather than slaughter method. Given the reaction to the word halal on this thread (people seemed to have glossed over the Tesco reply that states stunning is used, and instead continue to be horrified about buying halal, despite there being no welfare implications at all), I can almost see why supermarkets choose not to label it - the public would likely all complain without bothering to do their research as to the welfare implications, demand separate slaughter, if supermarkets respond this dramatically slows the volume of animals slaughtered through abattoirs such as the one I visited, and hey presto, the price of lamb rises and the public complain again!

Having visited a chicken abattoir I can honestly say that I hope anyone bothered by the prospect of eating stunned Halal lamb NEVER eats chicken.
 
Murphy88 said:
I have seen the process and am happy that the stunning they receive is adequate. Yes, I suppose ideally the meat would be labelled with Halal........
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But I thought someone has already stated in this thread that if the animal is stunned first then it's not Halal?
 
So if it is stunned it isn't OK, and if it isn't, it's still not OK. Some people are never happy :p
Pity there isn't a local friendly Immam to pop on to HHO and clarify the matter.
 
I have no problem with throats being cut as long as the animal has been stunned first, no problem at all. My understanding of halal (And hands up I could be wrong) is that the animal must be fully conscious when its throat is cut. It is this that I strongly object to. I do not want to eat meat slaughtered this way.

So what is the truth? Is stunning allowed or not? If it is then why isn't the practice followed for every animal?
 
I think that the Koran states that the animal has to be alive when slaughter takes place, and with electrical stunning the animal is still, technically, alive. I am sure some muslims will still only eat meat that was killed in the traditional Halal method (and Halal butcher's I'm sure will practice as such), however modern Islam has chosen to interpret the wording of the Koran to allow stunning to take place. This is why criticism of Kosher meat has increased recently, because no stunning is allowed at all. It is a couple of years since I have done any in depth research/debates on religious slaughter (when I was visiting the abattoirs in question) however I think this is the basics of it.

And as CC says, it really makes no difference to us! Either way, no one should have an issue eating supermarket meat based on welfare concerns, the only people it effects are Muslims, who presumably will make the decision as to whether or not the meat is sufficiently halal based on personal choice.
 
Murphy88 said:
Haven't read all the posts, so apologies if I am repeating something already said, but just wanted to add another view point to it.

I have been to the sheep abattoir used by Asda for all of their lamb. I was surprised prior to my visit to learn that all animals were slaughtered under halal practice (it would be too difficult to seperate out halal/non-halal carcasses, the volume of animals going through is huge). However, having seen every stage of the slaughter process, I can honestly say I believe there is no greater level of suffering for these animals than with standard slaughter - I stood and watched the animals be stunned and their throats cut, it was quick, painless, and the animals appeared to be in very little distress (and as a vet I think I am relatively well qualified to assess these points.) The holding pens etc are all designed to reduce stress, and there are strict procedures in place to ensure no animal goes through that isn't fit. The sheep toddle into the chute, are stunned and then a trained halal slaughterman cuts their throat immediately.

I do not agree with any form of religious slaughter that occurs without stunning, however I equally have no problem buying lamb from Tesco/Asda, because I have seen the process and am happy that the stunning they receive is adequate. Yes, I suppose ideally the meat would be labelled with Halal, but given that the only difference is method of actual death (captive bolt vs slit throat) and there is no difference in welfare, TBH my feeling is that it should make no difference to those of us who are only interested in welfare rather than slaughter method. Given the reaction to the word halal on this thread (people seemed to have glossed over the Tesco reply that states stunning is used, and instead continue to be horrified about buying halal, despite there being no welfare implications at all), I can almost see why supermarkets choose not to label it - the public would likely all complain without bothering to do their research as to the welfare implications, demand separate slaughter, if supermarkets respond this dramatically slows the volume of animals slaughtered through abattoirs such as the one I visited, and hey presto, the price of lamb rises and the public complain again!

Having visited a chicken abattoir I can honestly say that I hope anyone bothered by the prospect of eating stunned Halal lamb NEVER eats chicken.
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Actually, this is not quite so. Apparently Asda and Tesco buy meat from different sources in the UK and not all of it is pre stunned. Additionally, most of the lamb in the supermarkets is New Zealand and most of that is not stunned.

You seem to have quite a different take compared to the RSPCA inspectors, CIWF, FAWC, and the EU Scientific Panel on Animal Health and Welfare (AHAW) have to say about current slaughter legislation.

Post stunning is not acceptable and neither is using suppliers who do not pre stun, (despite what they claim.)
Also, as only certain parts of the animal are used for Kosher meat, the remaining parts of the carcass will be used for the general market.
 
Perissa said:
I have no problem with throats being cut as long as the animal has been stunned first, no problem at all. My understanding of halal (And hands up I could be wrong) is that the animal must be fully conscious when its throat is cut. It is this that I strongly object to. I do not want to eat meat slaughtered this way.

So what is the truth? Is stunning allowed or not? If it is then why isn't the practice followed for every animal?
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My boss is a devout Muslim and I have checked with her Halal butcher, apparently the animal has to be alive and well when it is slaughtered and the fact that they are stunned means that although alive they are not well so must not be stunned before slaughter. He even offered to let me see him slaughter some chickens (insert vomiting smiley, no thanks!).

I know many Muslims and none of them will buy from supermarkets due to the fact the animal is usually stunned first.
 
honeymum said:
I know many Muslims and none of them will buy from supermarkets due to the fact the animal is usually stunned first.
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So in that case why don't supermarkets just offer meat slaughtered but without the prayers :confused: Just seems a bit daft if they don't eat from the supermarkets anyway..
 
elsiecat said:
So in that case why don't supermarkets just offer meat slaughtered but without the prayers :confused: Just seems a bit daft if they don't eat from the supermarkets anyway..
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I don't know, I find it a bit strange. Where I live in Bucks there are about 10 Halal butchers within a 3 mile radius but only 1 normal one. I'm sure a lot of people must buy it from the supermarkets, otherwise they wouldn't sell it. I'll have to peer into some trollies tomorrow and be nosy :D
 
Some Imams will interprate the teaching as allowing stunning, some will not.
I will not eat either hallal or kosher meat, if I am aware of it being so.
I agree that the argument here is about labeling the meant according to the supermarkets view of what type of slaughter it was. I see no value in large organisations providing only halal meat, the arguement that the majority can choose to eat non meat options is surely more viable for the minority. If you require a method of slaughter which the majority do not, then eat the veggie option, rather than the majority having a method imposed on them. With regard to the poster who pointed out that it is not that many years since all animals were slaughtered without pre-stunning, that is true, as is the fact that children went to school part time at the age of ten and went to work for the other half of their week. This was the case for my Grandfather, I for one am glad that that has changed, along with methods of slaughter.
 
YorksG said:
If you require a method of slaughter which the majority do not, then eat the veggie option, rather than the majority having a method imposed on them.
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Or simply use a Halal butcher where you know exactly what you're getting, as opposed to a supermarket where you don't. As I've already mentioned - do devout Muslims REALLY go to Tesco to buy meat which isn't labelled as being Halal? I'll wager not.
 
YorksG said:
the arguement that the majority can choose to eat non meat options is surely more viable for the minority. If you require a method of slaughter which the majority do not, then eat the veggie option, rather than the majority having a method imposed
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EXACTLY. Why would you pander to the needs of the 4% (who apparantly tend to go to halal butches anyway) instead of the needs of the 96%. It makes no sense :eek:
(Before anyone gets 'offended' by this - I used to work in an Indian Restaurant, was good friends with all the staff, we spoke about religion and that lead on to Halal etc. and I expressed my views, and they all said they understood where I was coming from about the minority being catered for before the majority. I have had Indian food, which IS halal, but I've knowingly done so. Its a different ball game)
 
Pretty much all Nz lamb Izmir halal. There was a massive uprising re. Stunned animals but tests proved that the animal was not dead when stunned, thus appeasing Muslim groups.

The animals are killed by one at a time rather than in a lot of non halal establishments where the animal can see the fate of his mate in front. The animal dies immediately as the throat must be completely severed to satisfy halal meat processes.

Block killing is now banned in this country which, in my view was inhumane. Id rather eat halal anyday.

Might be worth googling some videos so people actually know what they're taking about rather than spouting daily mail tosh.
 
UGH this bothers me.

DO you really think your 'Christian' or 'secular' meat is killed in a kinder way? Really?

And all of theses shops.. all but one sell no halal chicken or beef,its only lamb,and if you're really that fluffy,in my opinion,why are you eating a baby sheep?

Sorry.All this aggressiveness without insight upsets me.
 
Molly'sMama said:
UGH this bothers me.

DO you really think your 'Christian' or 'secular' meat is killed in a kinder way? Really?

And all of theses shops.. all but one sell no halal chicken or beef,its only lamb,and if you're really that fluffy,in my opinion,why are you eating a baby sheep?

Sorry.All this aggressiveness without insight upsets me.
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Fluffy or compassionate ? I doubt that scientific reports from the European Food Safety Authority and UK Farm Animal Welfare Council regarding religious slaughter are based on fluffiness or aggression.
Similarly, I doubt it was fluffiness that improved conditions for battery hens and ended the use of narrow veal crates.
Unless we question inhumane practices in food production, the small victories in improving conditions for farm animals will never be won.
No one wishes to prevent those whose religious beliefs require them to eat religiously slaughtered meat, but, why do the general population do not have an ethical choice ? Why the secrecy and avoidance of labelling ?
I won't call myself particularly fluffy being able to fillet a fish and (with OH's guidance :o), skin a rabbit.
Being a meat eater does not preclude me from caring about how it got to my plate.
 
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