Amy_08 How did you get on? and everyone else with strong horses!

[Lollii]

Just wondering how everyone with strong horses got on hunting this weekend with any new bits you have tried?

Any good/bad results?

My arms are aching from being pulled around to start with .... but I had some good results with a standing martingale - my horse yanks/snatches then lunges so put on a standing martingale, he was much better, but I think I will try a pelham next, just not sure if I should go for a waterford pelham .... ?

 

[Amy_08]

Sorry I was going to post but having a depressing day. Rosie has a very swollen fetlock. She pulled a shoe yesterday and I was hoping it was because of that, but think its worse and I'll be getting the vet in the morning

Anyway I took her in the Swales Pelham (no poll pressure) as she hates it, and basically it didn't work and I still had no brakes. I really don't know where to go from here, bitwise? It just seems that nothing is going to work, she is just so full of it and oblivious to whats in her mouth! Are some horses just like this and whatever you put in their mouthes they'll run through it??? What do people do then, just not hunt them? Anyway my next step was to get my instructor to take her. I feel she needs a man to take her and someone much more capable than me, as I'm not getting anywhere!

But anyway I did really enjoy most of the hunt yesterday despite having no brakes (normally I cry as I'm so out of control)!

So there were two groups, the second group being for novices and first timers and the second group just hung back from the first group and went at a slower pace. So I explained to the fieldmaster my issues, and she actually remembered me from last season (not in a good way!!!) She suggested I go at the front of the second group and then if she peed off with me we would just end up catching up with the first group, and I would have plenty of room.

So lovely meet, open farmland. Other meets I have been on have been on military land and have been more twisty and tight, so I thought this would be much better as so much more room. Less worries about cutting people up!

So a fair bit of road work to get to the first line-round some gallops! She was pulling like a trooper but did settle when she realised we were only trotting. As soon as we hit the grass she started. The good thing with the bit was she couldn't get her head down, so no snatching the reins and no lunging forwards which is one of her party tricks, but because the bit has an elevating effect she discovered rearing (just little bunny hops to start with!!! So I had to turn her away from the pack until the first group had gone and then when we were ready the fieldmaster just sent me off in front She was fab, really settled when I could just let her go, jumped beautifully and yes we did end up catching up with the first group towards the end of the line. We had a few issues with corners, as having no brakes half halts weren't working and a few times I just closed my eyes as we careered round corners totally off balance.

Second line she was good as well, but we were at the front. The problems came when we got stuck in the middle. I just can't hold her and as soon as everyone starts trotting she just goes. There were a lot of fallers yesterday and on a couple of occasions we had to pull up. Well I may as well have been riding in a headcollar! I ended up either having to turn a circle or head for a tree. Now everyone else could pull up, so I felt a real idiot, but I had apologised to the fieldmaster before we set off for what may happen! So we got held up for a faller and she just got too excitable and did a vertical rear (god knows how I stayed on)! At this point I got a little scared as she was just getting too excited and I wondered what next. I did think about leaving it there but they said only a short last line. So last line and we all went off together, I ended up in the middle but did manage to overtake most of the field and end up near the front. But because there was so much room, open fields it wasn't a major problem, but it would be on some of the other meets.

So I did come away smiling and my plan was for my instructor to take her next time. Anymore suggestions for bits? To be honest I think she may be having an unplanned holiday for now I'll just have to wait until the vets been.

There's a couple of pics in PG

Hermangerman, your day sounded very successful then! What bit did you use? Was it with the kineton? Did you jump though with the standing martingale?

 

[Lollii]

Oh no! I hope your horse is ok & I was hoping that you would have sorted it with that Swales pelham

Your day sounds a bit like mine, we started off reall well (with the Kineton noseband & NS Waterford) we seemed to have mastered the act of standing still most of the time, walk & trot - no problem & the frothing up in a ball of sweat within 5 mins didn't happen on Sunday, thank god!

But as soon as we were off on the 1st line he started snatching and yanking his head down in canter, I couldn't attempt a jump as I had nothing in front of the saddle most of the time, and a couple of times he just took off - full pelt - head on the floor - yikes!!

We stopped at the end of one line and I hopped of and put the standing martingale on, as I said it made such a difference I can't tell you, I had his head in front of me, riding along with one hand on the reins and the other patting him on his neck - smiling! then we jumped a five bar gate - with the standing martingle - no problems!

I'm not sure what to do or what to use now, when I have recovered from this - I will think again!

I hope your horse is ok and nothing serious x

 

[chestnut cob]

Try her in a double (sorry if I've missed it and you already have) maybe. My horse, who is a big lad, is very very strong and we've settled on a single jointed pelham with 2 reins. Still have some bouncing moments but it's a nice soft bit when he is a good boy, and I have the second rein for when he tanks off or snatches.

Have you tried a waterford - either as a gag with 2 reins and a curb (mine went straight up in that as it's so strong), or I think you can get it as a pelham. Also play around with nosebands. I'm getting good results with a grackle but it might also be worth trying a kineton. Do you ride with a martingale? My boy will leap around and chuck his head up and down without one, but combination of pelham, martingale (running) and breastplate (something to hang on to!!), and grackle seems to be working. Io do remember you posting a list of the bits you'd tried but can't remember what was on the list I'm afraid. Cheltenham gag with 2 reins? Myler long shank combination bit with one of the more harsh mouthpieces?

I actually think that having a strong man take her out a few times would be worth a go. It might be just what she needs as she will hopefully find it harder to get away. I also think you (or someone) needs to keep taking her. She should realise eventually that it's hard work and settle to it.

Do you go with bloodhounds or foxhounds? I find bloodhounds too fast and it winds my horse up no end - if you've only been out with bloodhounds then maybe look at finding a foxhound pack to try a couple of days with. It's not so fast and might not wind her up so much. Also try one of those instant calmers before you go - someone I was out with last week said she gives hers a syringe of NAF instant magic the night before and the morning of a meet with good results.

 

[Kat]

A waterford mouthpiece with a pelham....

Isn't that too wobbly to get proper curb action???

I always thought that a curb bit should have a fixed mouth piece either with or without a port.

 

[chestnut cob]

It should but then again, single jointed pelhams shouldn't work either but mine goes brilliantly in one so who am I to argue?! TBH I think you can theorise all day long about how bits work and what sort of horse they *should* suit, but horses are unpredictable and they react differently to things. I was told time and again that a waterford would be perfect for my horse but he hates it - I get a violent reaction to it from him so no point using it!

 

[oofadoofa]

Don't despair Amy! There are plenty of stronger bits than a pelham!

I hunt my very strong warmblood in a tom thumb bit with a copper/sweet iron mouthpiece and a curb strap done up tight. I couldn't hold one side of him in a pelham but could stop him with my little finger in this one. Although I note yours doesn't like any form of poll pressure. Have you tried an army reversible?

 

[skewby]

Hey Amy, does sound like a much better day though!!!

I had a thought - I can remember someone (perhaps on here, not sure where) saying they took their horse hunting in all sorts of strong bits with dire results. Eventually tried it in its normal snaffle and it was an angel. I forget now, have you tried her in her normal bit?

First time I took mine, it was proper hunting and I kept his snaffle in, so as not to change anything. We ran everywhere so no guarantees!

Hermangerman so glad you had a better day too! Funnily enough I heard our hunt sec telling a girl with the snatch-down-p-off problem (though clearly not as severe as mine, lol!) that mysteriously standing martingales seemed to work on this problem. Though she admitted she had no idea why they should! (Ditto CC, my lad puts his head down but I have still had success in a double - go figure )

 

[skewby]

I was told time and again that a waterford would be perfect for my horse but he hates it - I get a violent reaction to it from him so no point using it!

CC at risk of sounding like some weird internet stalker who follows you around and agrees with everything you say, exactly the same happened to me *nods vigorously*. It was freakin useless. You see so many of them out hunting and people suggest them to me all the time (once they've caught me up 2 fields later :grin but been there, done that. Worst bit ever for us - though it clearly does work for many!

 

[star]

Don't despair Amy! There are plenty of stronger bits than a pelham!

I hunt my very strong warmblood in a tom thumb bit with a copper/sweet iron mouthpiece and a curb strap done up tight. I couldn't hold one side of him in a pelham but could stop him with my little finger in this one. Although I note yours doesn't like any form of poll pressure. Have you tried an army reversible?

that;s what i've settled on for now with mine too - might try the leather curb a bit tighter next time, but i think it was the best apart from the double but i'd rather not use that as hate juggling 2 sets of reins.

 

[Mike007]

Hi Amy , My question is , was rosie better or worse after I took your curb chain off,(end of third line). That was a truely horrible bit ,I think a lot of the problem was that Rosie resented the bit (she would probably put it stronger but is too much of a lady)

 

[Amy_08]

Thanks Hermangerman, I think I will try a standiing martingale next time, been doing a bit of research on them today and it seems like a good idea for the snatching. It definately looks like you've got it sussed though-excellent!

Chestnut Cob, it was suggested that I try a double. I haven't hunted her in one but did take her on a fun ride in one, and had no brakes. Also the poll pressure would be too great, so I'm not inclined to try it. I haven't tried a waterford yet, but my instructor told me not to bother, he didn't think it would work. I ride her in a grackle with a running martingale and breastplate, but will also think about the kineton. The instant calmer seems to be worth a try, but a pelham is a no go as is anything with poll pressure. I found two reins a real struggle, so would like to avoid if possible. Its a draghunt, so fast and furious!!!

Oofadoofa, never heard of an army reversible, will look it up.

Skewby, yes overall it was a better day, I loved it! I did take her out on hound exercise in a snaffle, with this theory. It was a slightly less chaotic day, less horses, less galloping and she did seem happier in it. There was no snatching, but I still had no brakes and we did overtake the fieldmaster!

 

[Amy_08]

Hi Mike, thanks for your help and advice on Sunday. No there was no difference without the curb chain. She just really didn't like it full stop!!!

 

[skewby]

Amy have you tried emergency brakes? By which I mean (and I am an expert lol - not that I can stop as you know - but my instructor knows every trick in the book and has taught me all of them!) crossing reins over her neck, bridging the reins, wedging one fist (with a tight rein) into the bottom of her neck and giving short, sharp tugs on the other? The latter works for me. They are all great tricks for regaining attention and, as I think of it, a bit of a "slap in the face" as you might give a hysterical person

I discovered, I was riding in a strong bit but too afraid to use it (I am too nice!). My instructor said (as did another guy in the field), as soon as he puts his head down and starts being a dick (excuse my language) give him a short, sharp shock. This is what I did and by God it sat him on his hocks and got him listening. I realised then that one millisecond's shock tactics, using the full extent of the severity of bit I had, versus an entire morning's prolonged tugging which resulted in his tongue swelling up and us passing the master, was infinitely kinder, and far less humiliating!

Also, this is why I love the double. I can get his attention, then put him back on the bradoon. As soon as he starts to lean and pull down, I reintroduce Mr Curb. This way, I feel we're getting somewhere and I am perhaps, hopefully, teaching him something - rather than continually hauling, which I can do if I am not concentrating. With dire results.

Also, you need to shut down your body to use it as a massive brake. I mean, sit down tight and hard, so that when she pulls, she just pulls you deeper into the saddle, rather than forward. All stuff I try and do, because it works when I manage it! Just a few thoughts? As getting run away with has been my problem forever, not just when we began hunting it's why, in 7 years of ownership, I've never dared take him before!

 

[Mike007]

With you all the way skewby. The double bridle used correctly will give the entire range of positive effects thet any bit has.

 

[skewby]

Thanks mike, glad I made some sense!

Meant to say also, I use spurs too as they help me get him off my hand. I know people in the past have had a go at me, for wearing a pelham and spurs. But what I like about both is that you have the fine control if you need it, neither the curb nor spur is there all the time. I have the spur to stop, not to go! Lots of people just can't understand that and think I'm a witch

My lad snatched down twice in a wood last week when it got fast, when we were going downhill (he's not stupid). Each time he did it I put my spur right in. He only did it twice and then didn't bother. I always ride in spurs and 99% of the time they never touch his sides. But they are there for emergencies (i.e., rudeness!) like that!

 

[Lollii]

I really don't think the Waterford bit will help much, I use it because my horse doesn't normally take a hold, he just snatches down when anxious/excited - the waterford seemed to cure this on non hunting rides, but out hunting it is a different matter! The Kineton noseband was rubbish - it just made him worse, but if you want to try it I can send it to you?

Changing the running martingale to a standing one did help a lot, I have also brought a leather rein that connects from the d rings on the saddle - goes up the neck to the top of the bridle (grass reins?) I will try these, but I'm not sure about jumping in them, but I'm going to try as a lot of the time he hurdles the jumps then sticks his head down - blimin nightmare!

Any update on your horses lameness?

 

[Lolo]

Have you tried a cheltenham gag? My insanely strong horse (he went through wire last time out, after snatching down and pulling me out of the saddle so I couldn't do anything- I'm never going again, he scares me too much) goes best in a cheltenham gag with a mexican grakle (English is worse than useless) and a running martingale. After I'd disentangled him, realised he was uninjured, I attached the loops of the martingale to his noseband, tied knots in his reins and everytime he snatched, he got an almighty jab in the gob and a growl. Sounds cruel, but it got me safely to the lorry.

If your horse is that bad, don't go. I gritted my teeth on Cheeks until then, but that incident scared me so much and there wasn't much sympathy for me as I desperately tried to sort out the wire, as they felt that I'd obviously had it coming it seems. I was only 16, and I think if I had been older I'd have been told off quite strongly. You may love it, but it's a fools game on an unsafe horse.

 

[Amy_08]

Hi Skewby, I've tried bridging the reins and the fist in the neck and sharp tugs, to no avail. Its as if she's in her own world, forgets I'm on board and is in the zone! I just can't seem to get her attention back. I think I need to try sitting deeper, I always seem to get pulled out of the saddle.

I totally agree with you about the double and I know Mike007 wants me to try it again, but I know how she will react when I pick up the curb rein. The poll pressure will drive her crazy and then she gets even more wound up and starts to get dangerous. I think the spurs sound a good idea and you don't sound like a witch, but I would have to have some form of brakes first.

The next time Rosie goes out it will be with my instructor, rather than me. I think this is best and safest for now.

So Hermangerman, what are you going to try next? There was a guy out on Sunday with a daisy rein on. I wouldn't want to jump with it on though. I had the vet and she's just got an infection so is on antibiotics. Such a relief as I thought she'd possibly pulled/strained something.

Does anyone else rate the kineton? Would it be worth trying?

NoSurrender, she hates poll pressure, so I haven't even considered the cheltenham gag. I hear what you're saying about is it worth continuing, which is why I won't be riding her next time, my instructor will. If he then comes back and says there's no hope I'll give up, but its such a buzz and something I've always wanted to do, I just don't want to give up if I think theres a glimmer of hope that I can calm her down and have some control.

 

[star]

hey, glad it was just an infection and she's gonna be fine - that's a relief!

 

[Amy_08]

Such a relief!!! The thought of anything worse, we've had a bit of a year for it! My vet even said to me he hoped he wouldn't see me until vaccinations as we've seen enough of each other this year!!!

 

[chestnut cob]

LMAO @ you being my internet stalker!!! :grin:

I really rate waterfords and used to XC, SJ and fun ride my Welshy in one but the big lad just doesn't get on with them at all. I think he objects to all of the metal in his mouth as he just runs backwards and upwards.

 

[Lollii]

So glad your horse is ok and nothing too serious, I'm really not sure what to try next, definitely going to stick to the standing martingale, I think I will put the daisy rein on and not jump if I can go around them, I would just love to get to the end of the lines with a smile rather than sheer panic!

NoSurrender - I haven't tried the Cheltenham gag yet, I am worried about the poll pressure as well, I may try a Pelham just to see if the curb will stop him.

I have also tried bridging the reins after a chat with the field master who was lovely, he even offered to swap horses with me, but I hate riding horses I don't know, so I declined, but that would have been interesting! I have jabbed my horse in the mouth so many times, when he is on a roll he just jabs back, I will never win over him, he is 17hh of pure muscle!

I will keep trying with him as he does seem to be getting better slowly, but I can just imagine me out with gadgets all over him - one to keep his head up, one to keep it down and a huge bit to stop him - nightmare!

So, I will try one more time .... I must be mad!

 

[Clodagh]

Have you tried a market harborough? It does strengthen the bit you use and stops them throwing their head up or down. You can't overdo it and its safe for jumping.

 

[Lollii]

Have you tried a market harborough? It does strengthen the bit you use and stops them throwing their head up or down. You can't overdo it and its safe for jumping.

I have one somewhere, it may be worth having a go - thanks.

 

[Amy_08]

A market harborough sounds a good idea, I know I have one somewhere too.

Hermangerman, we seem to be in the same boat! I just don't know what to try next? I'm just trying to arrange with my instructor a date for when he can take her out. When are you next going out and what bit are you using?

I wish the fieldmaster would offer to swap with me, I'd jump at the chance!

 

[Lollii]

Hi Amy_08, I was going to go out tomorrow but the forecast is heavy rain & 50mph winds - I don't fancy my chances much with that!!

So for the next time we go, I am still pondering if I should try a pelham & a standing martingale or stick to the Waterford and either a market harbourgh or those daisy reins, I am taking him out this morning for a hack, I may just try the pelham and see how he goes in that, but as I said he is always ok until we go hunting, so I can't really test anything until we are out on the field.

I hope your horse is ok with your instructor man - keep us (me!) updated, I may have to borrow him too!!!!

 

[Amy_08]

Yes I saw the forecast for tomorrow! I actually don't mind going to work, its going to be horrendous!

Yep my girls the same in that you can't test the bit until you go hunting, as she doesn't do anything the rest of the time!

I think I'm going to try the NS Waterford Universal with curb strap next time she goes out. I keep putting off trying a waterford, but still have it at the back of my mind. I've got to try it just in case. I'm either going to try a standing martingale or market harborough, probably the latter as I've got one somewhere.

I will let you know full details when my instructor takes her. Looking forward to hearing how you get on next time

 

[Lollii]

I think I'm going to try the NS Waterford Universal with curb strap next time she goes out. I keep putting off trying a waterford, but still have it at the back of my mind. I've got to try it just in case. I'm either going to try a standing martingale or market harborough, probably the latter as I've got one somewhere.
I will let you know full details when my instructor takes her. Looking forward to hearing how you get on next time

If you want to borrow any bits that I have (I have a lot!) let me know, I have a a NS Waterford Universal, I tried it out on a hack and he kept snatching down his head, so I didn't bother with it out hunting.
I also have the Kineton (which didn't work for us) if you want that.
Anyway - fingers crossed for both of us for next time :crazy:

 

[simplyhunting]

sorry to butt in but has anyone tried a dexter bit? and had good effects?
i have a 14.3 that is rather strong shall we say, and have tried god knows how many bits,but as soon has he's ridden in one , hes already worked out how to get away from it! last season he hunted in a kineton with D-ring roller, or a dr bristol which where rotated around each time... i have resorted to a double bridle currently, although hope of this working out hunting are looking less and less
also wondering if anyone has tried the long shank myler with a decent ported mouth piece? and wherether this has been any use?