An apology

C

Chinchilla

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I have maintained for ages that my horse is not grey.
However I would like to apologise for this because Diva is heterozygous for grey. I am very sorry to everyone to whom I have ever said 'she's not grey', because I was wrong; I assumed because she'd not changed at all from the 2yo pics I have of her that she could not therefore possibly carry a grey allele. So, apologies for that folks :o

However there is an upside in that I could totally now call her a rose grey mottled fewspot - just to confuse folks even more :p
(Joking obviously... ;) )

Sincerest apologies lol !! Hope everyone is having fun and staying safe in the heatwave, though!
 
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Though considering she has recently discovered the delights of playing on the muck heap I'm not sure colour matters.... you aren't allowed to put 'beige with accents of sh_t and grass stains' on their passports, after all. ;)
 
alainax said:
Thread needs pics!
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I am SO not posting a picture! She looks like something that's just emerged from a swamp; someone would call the RSPCA on me :D

Honestly might just give in and dye her brown: I mean, she spends so much of her life brown that she must be trying to tell me something....
 
Haven't been able to post for days but really wanted to ask whether she's LP/LP tested as well? My friend had a registered few spot mare who had 2 foals by a piebald warmblood stallion. Both greyed out by 3 years old but were left with spots on their muzzles and around their eyes. If I didn't know who their dad was I would have sworn they were few spots - but neither can be LP/LP. The dam was PTS a couple of years ago, but I always wondered whether she was actually a few spot or had the grey gene covering up her true colour. Given her offspring I guess the latter.

Appy colour genetics are a challenge!
 
SEL said:
Haven't been able to post for days but really wanted to ask whether she's LP/LP tested as well? My friend had a registered few spot mare who had 2 foals by a piebald warmblood stallion. Both greyed out by 3 years old but were left with spots on their muzzles and around their eyes. If I didn't know who their dad was I would have sworn they were few spots - but neither can be LP/LP. The dam was PTS a couple of years ago, but I always wondered whether she was actually a few spot or had the grey gene covering up her true colour. Given her offspring I guess the latter.

Appy colour genetics are a challenge!
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Awaiting results on Lp & PATN1 :)
The presence of grey has thrown up in the air what I thought about her colour though; she's really not changed much since 2yo so I assumed definitely not grey (particularly not heterozygous, because anecdotally they are supposed to fade more slowly...) However she really doesn't look particularly like a purebred appaloosa or purebred knabstrupper so could very well be heterozygous Lp who has greyed out. (Obviously Lp does crop up in other breeds but she's too big to be a British spotted pony, too fine for a spotted gypsy cob.)

Her filly (who I now know to be grey) is 5, spotty, and fading very slowly, and the grey didn't come from the sire (palomino PBA).

Honestly Diva's behaviour in the dark suggests she's Lp/Lp though but it could just be she's a wuss. (Sorry Diva ;) )
This is way too interesting, UC Davis will get rich off me lol!! Results for appaloosa colour panel are expected between today and Friday...I am a bit excited lol.

Despite grey being something of a dirty word in spotty breeding I'm quite excited to see what both Diva and her daughter are going to end up looking like too. It was only after revisiting the filly's baby photos that I realised she was probably grey; Lp can cause goggles in newborns but she was hyperpigmented and is now (aged 5) obviously fading. Unfortunately I don't have the owner's permission to post photos else I would to show the progression.
 
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Just going to test a response before I write too much and it gets deleted by gremlins

so that worked....

Interesting about the 'goggles'. Baby #1 of the horse I know looked a little odd when it was born. It was coloured like its dad but had goggles around its eyes. Luckily he faded to grey very quickly because I think the owner was wondering what on earth 2 fabulous looking parents had produced. His younger sister was jet black at birth and gradually turned white.

I did read that even LP/lp can limit night vision. So they don't have the total blackout my snowcap has, but its not as good as the non Appy in the field. I did work experience with an Appy breeder many, many years ago (before they realised the genetic link) and she told me she thought most of her Appy's had dodgy eyesight. That comment came flooding back when I realised mine couldn't see where she was going in the dark!

Let us know what the results are!
 
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SEL said:
Just going to test a response before I write too much and it gets deleted by gremlins

so that worked....

Interesting about the 'goggles'. Baby #1 of the horse I know looked a little odd when it was born. It was coloured like its dad but had goggles around its eyes. Luckily he faded to grey very quickly because I think the owner was wondering what on earth 2 fabulous looking parents had produced. His younger sister was jet black at birth and gradually turned white.

I did read that even LP/lp can limit night vision. So they don't have the total blackout my snowcap has, but its not as good as the non Appy in the field. I did work experience with an Appy breeder many, many years ago (before they realised the genetic link) and she told me she thought most of her Appy's had dodgy eyesight. That comment came flooding back when I realised mine couldn't see where she was going in the dark!

Let us know what the results are!
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Will definitely post results when they arrive. Interesting about even heterozygotes having the dodgy eyesight; although appaloosas/spotties in general are supposed to be more susceptible to ERU as well (but LESS susceptible to melanomas...)
 
KleDajo.jpg
 
You guessed right with LP/LP!
I've had to dive over to the Appaloosa project to remind myself about PATN1. From what I can tell LP/LP always gives a lot of white, but homozygous for PATN1 is what makes her a few spot. Is that right? I think my snowcap will have PATN2, but I never tested past LP/LP. Might do now - its interesting! Does yours have black skin under the grey? I think she must have been born white due to LP/LP. You need to put a call out to the colour genetic experts on here.

Diva is a valuable brood mare it seems as well - would throw pretty foals.
 
SEL said:
You guessed right with LP/LP!
I've had to dive over to the Appaloosa project to remind myself about PATN1. From what I can tell LP/LP always gives a lot of white, but homozygous for PATN1 is what makes her a few spot. Is that right? I think my snowcap will have PATN2, but I never tested past LP/LP. Might do now - its interesting! Does yours have black skin under the grey? I think she must have been born white due to LP/LP. You need to put a call out to the colour genetic experts on here.

Diva is a valuable brood mare it seems as well - would throw pretty foals.
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There is no PATN2 - blankets are caused by so-called small effect PATN (pattern) modifiers, which can't be tested for yet :) They're only a recent discovery though: https://www.appaloosaproject.co/articles/free-articles/61-patn2-is-not-the-blanket-gene.html

LP causes varnish roan and appaloosa characteristics (mottled sclera, stripy hooves etc.) and PATN1 organises the roan, "into a PATN" is how I remember it.
if one copy of PATN1 then roan colouration is organised into leopard spots; if two copies, then it's a fewspot yes. It's a bit like if someone's SO organised their desk is EMPTY of things, in the same way, a fewspot's varnish roan is so organised its coat is empty of spots. (OK bit of a crap analogy but still....)

If no copies of PATN1 then horse is usually varnish roan though they can "spot out" sometimes with age and get spots on their rump etc.

Her skin is mostly pink with black freckles; when she's clean (not that THAT happens very often) she's truly "white". I really want a photo of her fully wet to show the freckles, but unfortunately she lives up to her name with baths lol!!
Yeah she would/does throw nice looking babies - was a broodie for a bit in her last home and a fair few people seemed pretty surprised when there were suddenly spotty babies on the ground out of an apparently grey mare from a palomino stallion. :lol:
But most serious appaloosa breeders wouldn't want a horse with grey; there was something of a furore a few years ago when the "spotted fresian" Mystic Warrior was found to carry grey, it's very unpopular with people who produce spotties because the loud marketable coat colours fade over time.
Diva's filly carries grey though and is gorgeous, the effect it's had on her phenotype is beautiful and fascinating.
 
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HiPo'sHuman said:
Ditto ;)
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No pics forthcoming; muck heap double fenced off with electric now. Mwahah. :D
She'd designed herself some stockings out of excrement today.
And all this talk of her lacking spots has obviously got to her because there were some lovely flecks of filth all along her (considerable) barrel too.
:eek:
 
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