An experimental change/back to the olden days

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louisem

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Some of you may remember my last report where I had some issues with Tea-bag (all 17.2 warmblood of him) when the weather turned exceptionally warmer at a show.
Don't get me wrong,he is fit,even possibly 75% eventing/galloping fit (which for showjumpers is quite impressive)
He has had Ulcers in the past,but he is on 1 month on/1 month off treatment and this has been a good maintenance plan for him.
However,for a while I have had a feeling that his diet didn't suit him.(1 scoop chopped luzerne,1 1/2 scoops sport mix + 3 times a day haylage) I could ride him twice a day (once 35mins flatwork and once 35mins fast hacking) but longer periods of work tired him. He felt stuffy and bloated.
After Villers,nearly 3 weeks ago a friend called me saying she had a supplier of high quality black oats.
Back at Lionels,in the 1980s he had his own oatcrusher and chaff-chopper and it got me thinking.....
Gradually I have tried to go back to the old fashioned way we used to feed our horses... Tea-bag is an old fashioned kind of horse,I thought!
He is now on ad-lib dry hay,1/2 scoop chopped grass (hartog) 1 scoop black oats 1/2 scoop spelt.
Wow! What a difference! It can't be the weather because it's wet,warm and muggy now,definitely not turbo weather. He just feels lighter and perkier...
Am I a saddo believing this is a step forward for him?
(By the way,not recomending this diet for all horses...;-))
Thoughts?
 
i won't feed haylage after someone with a lot more experience than me was adamant that it is fine for cattle but too acidic for horses. so, hay all the way for mine. i know someone on here has seen a dramatic behaviour change after swapping haylage to hay, and i knew a 4* horse years ago who went dangerously nuts on haylage but was fine on hay...
what are black oats? like naked oats, or tiger oats?
i have fed soaked whole oats as the only high energy feed to a very stuffy horse, they worked very well.
as long as it's working for Tea-bag, fantastic.
I've got mixed feelings about mixes, and tend to only use a handful as top-dressing for fussy feeders, or to get medicine down them. Much prefer to feed Alfa-A (same as lucerne I think?) and soaked whole oats for high energy(if i can get them, but that's another issue!)
 
Oats are brilliant, and provide a good slow release energy, as well as being high fibre. I think your "old fashioned" feed regime sounds perfect, as the spelt is high in calcium, which oats lack. I think a lot of horses need higher energy feeds that we think, to keep their concentration, so long as we keep them fit enough so they are actually burning the energy we are supplying. I am deeply wary of modern mixes, and tend to feed straights, although I've been converted by Allen and Page Fast Fibre, which is bloody amazing (mixed with oats LOL...)
 
They say that whole ( soaked) oats are the absolute best and most natural feed product there is for horses and that they are very digestible. Modren mixes and nuts contain just so many ingredients that are just not that digestible for horses not to mention a high amount of molasses added (all reasons why colic cases are so frequent these days?)
They are also very good for conditioning as theyre natually high in oils. I think that the fact that they are supposed to rev up highly strung horses is an old wives tale, not if they are soaked properly, also black oats would fall into this category as well.

What is spelt?

I think the jury is out on haylage? Every top nutritionist has their own opinion on this!
 
We feed haylage due to the problems getting GOOD hay. Last year we planned to cut our own hay but due to weather we dried it to almost hay then wrapped it as haylage and it was fab. Will try do the same again as the horses did fantastic on it. Turned out like really nice hay
 
To be fair,our haylage is home grown,85% dried hay packed in plastic,it has done us proud with the youngsters and the OAPs and ponies. I just felt it 'bloated' Tea-bag even though he loved it.
I am changing Pyjama,Badette and Chuckles over to this to see what happens... Orbit,possibly?
Not Dunkmeister though,he's a real 'nuts and 2 veg' kind of chap.
Spelt,Hmmm,what is that,I know they make bread from it. Supposed to be high in Calcium,kind of looks like really chunky barley....
The farmers feed their youngsters a spelt and maize-silo combination here...
Black oats are literally,BLACK oats, otherwise known here as 'wild oats'. Finer and softer that the oats I used to use in the UK....
I'll bring some :-)
 
Spelt is really yummy. I have only eaten the Ainsley version though... have been trying to find it to buy without Ainsley interference but have only seen it at an incredible price online in poncy health shops. Didn't realise you fed it to horses.

Spelt is a particular type of wheat with characteristic nutritional properties. It is particularly high in protein (generally around 15%) and tends to have lower amounts of gluten than most species of wheat. Spelt wheat was actually farmed for centuries in ancient times and has fallen out of favour recently due to a range of factors, including the fact that more modern wheats have a higher yield. However, some people with wheat allergies find that they can tolerate spelt. This is why this ancient crop, which was unfashionable until recently, has suddenly become a health food.
Spelt has a "heavy" feel to it which some people like, because it is quite a filling wheat. It can be used to make most wheat-based products, particularly pasta and crispbread.
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If it works for you, then dont worry. If he is looking good on it, feeling good then thats all the affirmation you really need, isnt it. Regarding haylage, personally am a great fan of it. I have one with COPD and it saves a lot of time as no need to soak hay.

To be honest I am all for simplicity. If I could get away with just grass and haylage I would do it. However, one horse is a WB/TB eventer who does need feeding. Mind you all I give her is the cheapest of the cheap feed manufactured at our local feed merchant. £6.50 a sack, and its lasts a month. She is a great doer and its all she needs. My horse justs gets a tiny handful with his glucosamine supplement - he is 19. Far too much faff in horse feeding in my opinion.
 
Clearly you know a lot more than me, and if it works for him then that's the best opinion you can get...but (did you see that coming?!) I'll be interested to see how it suits him longer term since cereal grains are one of the things everyone tells you to avoid like the plague with a horse that has/had ulcers, and oats/spelt are both cereal grains.
 
I'm a bit confused by oaty terminology!

We really only have rolled oats here (or seem to, maybe I haven't looked hard enough!). I've occasionally seen tiger oats but thought that was a brand name as the bag was printed in tiger stripes :o. So what are naked oats??? :confused: And is feeding soaked (rolled) oats better than unsoaked ones?

Please help,
(T)oatally Confused of Yorks.
 
Rolled oats have the husk crushed. Horses can't break it down to get to the oaty goodness inside, that's why whole oats need to be soaked. Naked oats don't have a husk.
As for tiger oats, I thought it was a brand name too :o but I guess it's a species of oat... :confused:
 
There doesn't seem to be any husk in my rolled oats (bog standard local ag merchant own brand) though, unless it's totally powdered :confused:. Maybe mine are naked? I have had some home-rolled oats before which have definitely still had the husk in as they weren't very well rolled and most were whole. I know it's indigestible as it all comes out the other end intact!
 
Gamebird - I have had that problem with Oats, the birds love it.

So you only soak whole oats? How long for?

I fed some topspec turbo for an energy boost last year, but oats (done correctly) may be a better bet.
 
In Canada we differentiate between rolled oats and cracked oats, Gb, just to confuse things.

I have heard of black oats but not used then. A lot of the people I knew who fed oats in my youth fed out of a bin or even a silo so I think you got what you were given! I always loved shovelling oats, although the movie Witness put me off a bit.
 
No idea, I've now written the word oat so much it looks odd!

When I was a Dressage groom, the PSG horse was fed soaked oats, I had to soak them overnight (I think, it was a long time ago and I've slept since then!)
 
Tiger oats have some pelleted mineral balancer in them too, to deal with whatever it is oats need adding to them.
 
kirstyhen said:
No idea, I've now written the word oat so much it looks odd!

When I was a Dressage groom, the PSG horse was fed soaked oats, I had to soak them overnight (I think, it was a long time ago and I've slept since then!)
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I mean't soaked correctly, sorry - never ask me about spelling, not my strong point!
 
I got told to feed oats with Alfalfa when feeding them last year, helps balance the lack of calcium in the oats... apparently!
 
Sounds fantastic! I am a big fan of back-to-basics feeding :D

If you are worried about a lack of calcium, you could add a tablespoon of Limestone Flour!

Cereals are only bad for horses prone to ulcers/lami etc due to their high starch and sugar content - when you soak oats the starch and sugar content decreases! You can also get germinating oats, which you soak, then leave covered and damp, each day rinsing off the portion you want to feed - over time the starch and sugar decreases and the protein, vitamins and minerals increase :D
 
I have been told that horses go fizzy on white oats because they are porridge oats, or sheep oats, but black oats are far better quality and will not hot horses up - but they are rarely grown in the UK and hard to find. Also there are two types of black oats and you need to feed the right one but I don't know what the difference is sorry!! Lol.

A decent feed mill should be able to help source the best quality.
 
HorseyLad said:
I have been told that horses go fizzy on white oats because they are porridge oats, or sheep oats, but black oats are far better quality and will not hot horses up - but they are rarely grown in the UK and hard to find. Also there are two types of black oats and you need to feed the right one but I don't know what the difference is sorry!! Lol.

A decent feed mill should be able to help source the best quality.
Click to expand...

This is what ive been told also, i would love to get hold of some of the black oats. But there virtually un-heard of in the UK.
 
We have black oats in our feed samples box (to confuse the students, not that that's difficult) - I thought they were widely fed in the US, but haven't located a supplier in Ireland.

I'm a big fan of straights. I'm sure my horses looked and did better in the old days when I boiled barley and linseed but maybe it's nostalgia kicking in :o
 
We have always had black oats but I will ask the supplier where these are grown.
The Spelt is high in Calcium and I feed lucerne/chopped dried grass too. I feel a 'before and after' photo shoot coming on..... :-)
I'll give it a month to see how he gets on with his new diet.
I have to say I love the smell of his breath while he's eating his tea,now! Warm oats and green grass!!!! Mmmmm
 
I've always fed rolled or crushed oat over whole oats as the rolling/crushing makes them easier to digest as it is the hard husk that horses can't digest. I also always soak them before feeding my 'rules' based on what other people ahve said/trial & error: if using boiling water soak for at least 4hrs, if just using cold water soak over night / day.

ETS - I recommend soaking in hot water, the smell is heavenly! ;)

I presume I've been feeding white oats as I've not seen black ones!

Random trivia - you can tell the gluten content of wheat by chewing it. You have to chew and chew for ages (about 5min) but eventually it will go sticky like a piece of gum. The stickier and more gum like it goes the the higher the gluten content. Which is why some wheat (Durum I think) is better for pasta (higher gluten = sticks toggether better) and other sorts for bread. And smelt which is very low in gluten is good for people who are sligtly gluten intolerant.
The high gluten wheat is a 'bred' trait and thought to be why so many people now have gluten intolerances as we are not used to high gluten wheat.

All of which is totally off topic and probably as boring as bat **** to anyone who isn't into Agriculture so, you will be relieved to hear Im shutting up! ;)
 
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