An update on Lottie... not very good

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Stasha22

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Following on from my post last night, thought I would update everyone who has been kind enough to reply and offer support and advise.

The vet came back to see her this morning and she is no better, if anything she is worse. He decided to admit her so she is now at the vets.

Obviously I am now even more worried and upset but I feel a little bit reassured knowing that she is in the best place for her.

He is still starving her accept for small handfuls of soaked hay which I am not overly happy about but as she is now there I don't think I have much choice. Bloods and urine samples will be tested tomorrow and her feet will be x-rayed to see if there are any changes to her pedal bones.

Really worried about her long term future as from what I have read she will be on box rest for a long time with restricted food. I think this would be impossible for her as she simply will not tolerate any box rest let alone months of it. In the past she has had to be sedated to be kept in and even then she still gets terribly worked up and gives herself spasmodic colic. Plus I have the ulcer issue. Really am very concerned about her future.

Guess all I can do for now is keep my fingers crossed for her (and try to stop crying but I don't think thats possible!)

Thanks again for everyones help and support.
 
I'm so sorry to read this - I've not read your other post yet - so don't really know the history - I'm sure that your vet will have her best interests at heart - I've got everything crossed for a speedy recovery.
Kate x
 
So sorry to read this that she is worse today. At least she is now in the best place and her condition will be monitored from hour to hour. I read your previous post and understand how worried you must be about the possibility of box rest. Both my laminitics accepted boxrest with no problems - but they are both extremely chilled and not clingy with their fieldmates. Once the results are back and her feet have been xrayed, you will have more of an idea about her longterm future and care. My heart goes out to you as it is a horrible situation to be in. Please keep us all up to date with her progress.
 
Hi there...I didn't answer your initial post (have been away for a few days), but I'd really like to send you and Lottie big hugs.

I'd just like to tell you a little bit about my horse, Archie, who was diagnosed with EMS induced laminitis in three feet last April, and hopefully show you that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Archie was in severe pain, and on 24/7 box rest for a couple of weeks with 'bute and ACP. He was xrayed, which thankfully showed no rotation. He is now fine, and as long as I keep control of his diet, he shows no symptoms and his EMS is under control.

I would speak to the vets about the whole 'starving' thing.....this is not a good idea, especially in a horse prone to ulcers. Inicidentally, it's widely known that 'bute is a gastric irritant, so can cause ulcers or aggravate existing ulcers (I fed Archie Aloe Vera while he was on 'bute and for a few weeks afterwards). Not having a constant supply of fibre passing through the gut will no doubt also aggravate/cause ulcers. A far better idea would be to feed Lottie stacks and stacks of long-time soaked hay (i.e. soaked for 24 hours).

In addition to the 'ulcer' issue, being cooped up in the stable and having very little feed to occupy her will be stressful for Lottie.....and stress is most definately not good for a laminitic horse.

I appreciate that Lottie is now in the care and control of the vets, but surely they can be reasoned with?

Anyway, good luck to you and Lottie....fingers crossed that she is 'out of the woods' soon

Tracey x
 
It's good to hear that Archie has been through this and come out the other side. It's good to hear anything positive as I feel so negative about things at the moment.

I tried to discuss the starving issue with the vet this morning when we dropped her off there. He said until he has the blood and urine test results he doesn't really want her to eat a thing. I managed to make him compromise a little by getting him to agree to give her small amounts of soaked hay. When I said that by looking after her in this way she is going to get ulcers back he agreed and said that's why he has her on Gastrogard already but thats a risk we have to take as at the moment he feels that the laminitis/EMS is life threatening and the ulcers are not.

I don't know what more to do at the moment, I find it very hard to question a vet when they are adamant that they are doing the right thing. I think all I can do is speak to the head vet tomorrow and see what she thinks.
 
Hi there

I'm no vet, and I completely understand that laminitis/EMS can be life threatening (got the T-shirt on that one!), but all laminitis experts are adamant that the LAST thing you should do is to starve a laminitic horse. Starving any horse can lead to hyperlipidaemia, which is also a life threatening illness.

Like I say, I'm far from being an expert, but I can't see how starving Lottie can help with the EMS/laminitis at all, and I can't see how her eating soaked hay could make it any worse.

I know things are a nightmare for you at the moment, but when you get a chance, it might be worth you contacting Jackie JA Taylor, who is a well known expert on metabolic conditions. She posts on the Intelligent Horsemanship discussion group (www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk), and will answer questions free-of-charge. She also has a website (www.metabolichorse.co.uk) and a Yahoo group on metabolic issues. Jackie was a real support to me when Archie was first diagnosed, and she is so knowledgeable on metabolic conditions.

I'm keeping everything crossed for you and Lottie

x
 
I totally agree with you, I really don't think that soaked hay is going to make her any worse. I don't know what to do though, I have talked to him about it but he wont budge. I will speak to the head vet first thing tomorrow and tell her that I will not have her starved.

I understand that hard feed wouldn't be a good idea but not even allowing her soaked hay is wrong.

God I feel even worse about things now!!!!

Thanks for the websites, I'm off to look at them now and will see if I can get in touch with Jackie Taylor.
 
I have to say that I agree with others on this, starving a horse in this situation will only cause more problems, surely??? I don't know much about the EMS, but agree that laminitic horses need all the vits and mins they can get, which is why they are usually put on the supplements (sorry, can't remember the name of it, but it is prescription).

Is your horse being fed electrolytes and having water?

If you are at all unsure, please do not hesitate to request a referral to one of the equine hospitals. I was advised to wait a bit longer with Grace when she had colic (thought to be ulceration at first) and I pretty much burst into tears and requested they refer her there and then on the Saturday. It is the best thing I have ever done for her, as she was operated on the following morning. At the end of the day this is your horse, you have the final say. Do not think that just because she is in with your vet that you are now excluded, you are still the decision maker.

I know how hard it can be to think rationally at these times too.
 
hang in there! As i said yesterday these metabolic horses can and do make it! I am really suprised at your vets choice of action - moving a horse during an acute attack is really not helpful unless there is more of a welfare issue by not moving it. Has he put frog supports on yet? Why has he no given her aspirin? Why is he waiting to take bloods? He is not really following the usual laminitis protocol at all. Sometimes when testing insulin it is suggested that the horse is fasted before hand - but by fasted that means feeding soaked hay and no concentrates. There is no other explanation why he is starving her. remeber vets are not God - as much as they may think they are - this is not the time for him to be blagging it. Although referal to a vet hospital is usually my first choice - from a cost point of view very few insurance companies now cover the actual livery charges of the vets or the vet hospitals and you could end up with a very large bill for an extended period.

As I said in my post yesterday the metabolic horse yahoo group is a wealth of support and information. This is jackie taylors group - sadly she has just lost her horse but I am sure she will try to help if she can. You are somewhat limited with her out of your care as there is evidence that metabolic horses have an increased requirement for magnesium and then the extra trace elements that go with that. Jackie also sells supplements which you can try with lottie.

I have managed to get my horse back within normal levels by being very strict with hay testing, weighing feeds/hay, restricting grazing etc. He is now on Winergy Equilibrium low energy which is only 3% starch and helps keep insulin peaks to a minimum. he is now able to have carrots and apples and mints again and we are nearly there.

Its not easy, it is a long process, but at 8 she has every chance of making it!
 
I can't add much to the above as any advice I might have has already been given - And Jackie JA Taylor, with the support and encouragement and helpful tips from the HHO lot, saved my pony.

I think the EMS induced laminitis is the thing you need to get under control - isn't the starving her thing to do with the dex suppression tests they might run to establish the cause of the laminitis. Conrtoversial IMO as you need to keep the gut moving or you get hyperlipaemia......

I bet you are feeling pretty all over the place - it has taken me over a year of living with non-stop Cushing's and a strangles secondary issue to get into action immediately and am much less of a mess when laminitis kicks off as I now have a plan (outlined in all the above posts) to deal with it.

Once they get her stabilised, then you can decide on your regime. She'll not want to move to begin with so being on box rest shouldn't be a problem!

You'll get inventive and ideas will pop into your head and you'll feel more empowered when you have an idea of what to do, what to feed and so on. It's very time consuming, be warned - but at least you'll feel like you are doing something. I'm much better once I get my nurse's head on.

I hope you get a definite diagnosis soon and Lottie is soon on the mend. It'll be a long haul, but ours came back from the brink, as have others on here. In fact, ours had a very acute attack of lami the week before Xmas - lay down, shifted her feet continually and could barely walk. The worst she has ever been, no cause I could see and I thought she'd had it. She is now almost sound on no bute and went out in the sand paddock bucking and rearing and shooting about two days ago. She will remain on clamp down until the three months are up though.

Good luck
 
good to see you have joined the yahoo group, be patient, people are all over the world so will reply at different times

As I just replied on there, i would query why a DEX test is being done (injecting a steroid) into a horse at such high risk. This is your horse and your vet must be able to justify his treatment route so that you are able to make informed decsions. Only time will tell as to how she responds.
 
Hi

The vet has not mentioned anything about a DEX test. There is no way I would let steroids anywhere near her!!!

The only thing he has said he will be doing so far is running a blod test (although I don't know which one yet), taking a urine sample and x-raying her feet.

I'm going to call them shortly to see how she is and if they can tell me anythng more so will keep you updfated.
 
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