"Anaemic" horse - what to do next?

E

emfen1305

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 December 2015
Messages
1,046
Visit site
Hi all, I would post on veterinary but I know this gets bit more traffic. I am after some advice and to see if anyone has had a similar experience. A few months ago my horse started to go quite lethargic, reluctant to move off the leg and seemed to have lost his sparkle. Put it down to the new grass coming through and just tried to work through it. He was no better after a month so popped him on the Kossolian Blood Salts as they are supposed to be good for seasonal and coat changes but this made no difference. Tried some propell for a week from a bottle that my friend had, no difference at all and then put him on the NAF Energ supplement as I've had friends have good results, still absolutely no difference so gave up and got the vet out to run a blood test. I should also mention that he had all the checks during this time too, physio, saddler, osteopath and when the vet ran the bloods he just checked over him and did some flexions (he has arthritic hocks). All physical checks came back clear.

Blood test came back yesterday and said that he is anaemic! I was shocked as he has been on three difference high iron supplements over the last 3 months or so so can't quite understand how he is anaemic. Vet recommended to put him on another iron supplement but I did some research (on here and online) and found that actually it is difficult for a horse to be deficient in iron and actually is more likely to be fed too much. I feed ready mash and a topspec lite balancer, linseed, salt and gut balancer so by rights the balancer should have the right amount of iron.

I am bit stumped on what to do. Vet wants me to give an iron supplement as he is supposedly deficient but having read that too much iron can be damaging I am wondering whether to not do that and then supplement the copper and zinc in case he has been getting too much iron from the other supplements. Has anybody else experienced this before? I am going to speak with the vet, I understand the basics of anaemia but I don't just want to start pumping him with stuff when the three well known iron supplements already haven't worked.

Sorry it's so long, any advice or experience would be greatly appreciated!
 
Could you quiz the vet a bit more on the actual cause of the anaemia? Ie treat the cause rather than/as well as the symptom?
 
If he is aneamic on iron my guess would be an imbalance in the vitamins/minerals needed to absorb it like b12. Has he ever had metformin as it is know n in some people and I stress people to cause vitamin b not to be taken up. I have know Idea if this is true of horses only that I have to have B12 injections due to this damage. Iron can be toxic so best get a definitive answer on the cause it could simply be that he he isnt absorbing the vitamins he needs from the balancer. Other wise check for ulcers
 
Last edited:
Bojingles said:
Could you quiz the vet a bit more on the actual cause of the anaemia? Ie treat the cause rather than/as well as the symptom?
Click to expand...

This was going to be my next step as I don't see the point in giving him yet another iron supplement when the others haven't worked!


ycbm said:
I understand that anaemia in horses can be caused by low copper, and that is made even worse by supplementing iron.

http://forageplustalk.co.uk/equine-anaemia-by-dr-kellon/

Dr Kellon is an internationally renowned horse nutrition expert.
Click to expand...

I did read this article which is where I got the copper and zinc idea from, i read a couple of threads on here of people who had supplemented it. I'm just wondering where all of this iron has gone that i've given him over the last three months for him still to show low iron levels!

windand rain said:
If he is aneamic on iron my guess would be an imbalance in the vitamins/minerals needed to absorb it like b12. Has he ever had metformin as it is know n in some people and I stress people to cause vitamin b not to be taken up. I have know Idea if this is true of horses only that I have to have B12 injections due to this damage. Iron can be toxic so best get a definitive answer on the cause it could simply be that he he isnt absorbing the vitamins he needs from the balancer. Other wise check for ulcers
Click to expand...

He's never been on metformin no but it does seem like the issue is with his iron uptake as opposed to me not giving him enough so i think that's what i need to investigate as others have said! He has had ulcers in the past and is being rescoped in 2 weeks to see if they have come back (i really hope not as I'll be a pickle if they have!)

Goldenstar said:
Put him on the forage plus winter performance balancer .
Have they checked for blood in his droppings ?
Click to expand...

Should I do that instead of supplementing with copper and zinc? No, he didn't actually though I did think that he droppings whilst on the NAF supplement looked much darker..
 
Horses are very rarely anaemic from low iron. If you have been giving him iron supplements, you may want to check his iron levels (serum ferritin etc) to ensure he hasn't gone into iron overload.

Anaemia in horses is usually caused by infection or haemorrhage (includes bleeding ulcers).

A lot can be told by what the actual red cell morphology is like, eg. the haematocrit, mean corpuscular volume (MCV), mean corpuscular haemoglobon (MCH) and mean corpuscular haemoglobin concentration (MCHC), rather than just the number of RBCs.
 
Bit of a long shot I'm afraid as I can't find anything at present (Builders in)

The Veteran Horse Society had a great article written by their vet about anemia and variations of blood results due to size, causes and reasons etc
it was one of those articles that was very easy to read and understand (I hate having to take a degree just to read and understand something). It was written some time ago but may be worth contacting them to see if they have copies of past Voice of the Veteran
 
Few years back my horse had similar lethargy (she stopped trying to tank off with me 😉), ran bloods & she was anaemic. Vet similarly suggested iron, but after lots of reading also discovered iron deficiency is very rare in horses.
She went on a good balancer & had some time off, 6 weeks later bloods came back normal.
Ditch any iron supplements & consider if you do more investigations now, or wait & see in a month or so. There are so many possible causes, could resolve itself.
 
Oh I was going to ask in the other thread about ulcers but also thinking he didn't seem the type, definitely first thing to eliminate given his history
 
Thank you all for taking the time to comment! I just spoke to my vet again to better understand what the bloods mean (it all went a bit over my head yesterday) and he explained that the actual cells look fine (age and size) and that the liver and kidney function also looks fine and he agreed that supplementing with more iron would be pointless due to the last three not working. He said there is no reason that he can see for these results so the fact that he has a lower percentage could just be normal for him due to his heinz 57 breeding (he has never had a blood test before so we don't have any baselines to go off).

I'll continue to research, the vet is back out in 3 weeks for a rerun of a different test (some inflammation levels came back higher than expected) so maybe I could ask him to look at it again, i'm not sure if 3 weeks will be long enough though!
 
ester said:
Oh I was going to ask in the other thread about ulcers but also thinking he didn't seem the type, definitely first thing to eliminate given his history
Click to expand...

No he never presented any signs either! He was scoped last October as the start of the poor performance work up and found to have grade 4 bleeding ulcers! I felt awful, he was so stoic which is why I am extra careful with anything now as I know how much of a trooper he is! My vet's scope is being fixed so he is being rescoped in 3 weeks to see if they have come back, I really hope not, I meticulously manage every part of his feed ensure it is 100% ulcer friendly so I will be gutted if they have reared their ugly head again!
 
ester said:
Especially with inflammation markers, something's not right somewhere.
Click to expand...

The vet said it could be a one off but i suspect it wont be! Shame that he needs to pull the blood before doing the scope, i'd be inclined to have the scope to see if the ulcers have come back and make the assumption that that is the cause but i don't know if the sedation can mess with anything!
 
Is anyone a dab hand at interpreting blood results? or can point me in the direction of how to decode this? I feel like i need to go back to university to understand the comments..

pOeLj6D.jpg
 
emfen1305 said:
Is anyone a dab hand at interpreting blood results? or can point me in the direction of how to decode this? I feel like i need to go back to university to understand the comments..

pOeLj6D.jpg
Click to expand...

So he's really not very anemic - PCV of 29% wouldn't bother me, particularly in a cob type who tend to run lower than TBs / highly strung types. Likewise platelets say low but horse platelets tend to clump causing artificially low readings, the pathologist hasn't commented so would assume they aren't worried.

AST is a muscle enzyme - it goes up easily with any kind of exertion so 433 wouldn't worry me. In horses that tie up (exertional rhabdomyolysis) the AST and CK will be sky high (1000's).

So main abnormality is inflammation - both SAA and globulins increased (which is why the total protein is increased). SAA is what's known as an acute phase protein so it goes up very quickly then comes down very quickly when the inflammation settles. The high globulins would suggest that maybe some more long-term inflammation also going on. There is lots of debate about SAA currently, some people advocate that if SAA is high that means there is infectious inflammation and horse needs antibiotics, but thats not exactly judicious antimicrobial usage and a lot of people (myself included) are not a fan of that approach. That being said I think if it stays high you could definitely advocate for antibiotics. SAA changes so quickly that you could recheck it pretty soon (days) and if he is getting better himself it should be decreasing.
 
Thank you Murphy (ester i didn't get a chance to see yours!)

That is exactly what I was looking for, I think my vet did try to explain but i was so concerned about the anaemia that I panicked and just focussed on that!

So if i understand, the most likely/only thing that causes this high SAA would be an infection somewhere? And the high globulins means he could potentially be in pain? Ie if his hocks are hurting, this would show up as a high globulin reading? Sorry if that sounds like a silly question just trying to understand where to go next.. the vet is coming to retest in a couple of weeks to see if it was a one off but if they are both still high I would have no idea where to begin, are the levels so ridiculously high that it means he is in constant pain all of the time? He doesn't present any signs of being in pain other than the unwillingness to move forward which so far I have put down to his temperament and the fact he is quite fat! He is being rescoped for ulcers when they do the blood test but other than that I am stumped! Thank you so much for all of your help on this, I really appreciate the explanation!
 
Has PSSM been considered, the notes briefly touch on it, extertional rhabdomyolsis, they do not all follow the same pattern many never tie up at all they are just generally tight, it would explain his reluctance to work, his lack of topline and probably the inflammation, it may be worth putting him onto the appropriate diet and supplements to see if he improves.
 
be positive said:
Has PSSM been considered, the notes briefly touch on it, extertional rhabdomyolsis, they do not all follow the same pattern many never tie up at all they are just generally tight, it would explain his reluctance to work, his lack of topline and probably the inflammation, it may be worth putting him onto the appropriate diet and supplements to see if he improves.
Click to expand...

i did test him for p1 and came back negative, obviously there are all of the other types and he was on the diet a while back but it didn't show any remarkable changes to his way of going, granted this is before he went super lazy at the beginning of summer and i didn't have him on everything (he was on a low sugar low starch feed and i was supplementing Vit E with the oil) but I stopped after the Vit E ran out as i didn't think it was making a difference.

The next blood test is in three weeks so i suppose i need to decide whether to make some changes now and see how these are reflected in the test or just carry on the same to and see what they are like by doing nothing differently to see if it was just a one off, not sure what would be more helpful!
 
One of mine had a similar issue years ago, he was just out of sorts and looked rough, - I tried iron and copper etc with no luck. Vet checked his bloods and they said the same kind of stuff as yours did. And the main red flag my vet said was the inflamation stuff. he ended up going for a full vet work up because of that in a hospital and it turned out he had a few issues; mild kissing spine, hock arthritis and a cyst causing pain on his back. They treated all that stuff and then the bloods a few weeks later were normal. they didn't know exactly what caused the inflamation spike in the bloods but they assumed it was one of the issues.
 
also a friend had a copper/iron balance nightmare a few years ago. the issue was solved when she got her forage and grazing analysed. apparently it was sending everything out of whack.
 
paddi22 said:
One of mine had a similar issue years ago, he was just out of sorts and looked rough, - I tried iron and copper etc with no luck. Vet checked his bloods and they said the same kind of stuff as yours did. And the main red flag my vet said was the inflamation stuff. he ended up going for a full vet work up because of that in a hospital and it turned out he had a few issues; mild kissing spine, hock arthritis and a cyst causing pain on his back. They treated all that stuff and then the bloods a few weeks later were normal. they didn't know exactly what caused the inflamation spike in the bloods but they assumed it was one of the issues.
Click to expand...

paddi22 said:
also a friend had a copper/iron balance nightmare a few years ago. the issue was solved when she got her forage and grazing analysed. apparently it was sending everything out of whack.
Click to expand...

Its the inflammation that's concerning me, i wouldn't hesitate sending him in but to be honest I don't know if they will find anything, he went for full work up in january, tried the lameness work up and they couldn't decide what was wrong so had to have a full body bone scan and it came back clear bar the hocks, they tried flexions and nerve blocking which made no difference so they just xrayed and medicated with steroids. I don't think the insurance will pay for another workup to be honest and I am running out of time and money so i'll have to be more selective in what I ask the vets to investigate. I'm starting to think it would be worth getting a back xray to check for KS, remedicate the hocks and do a cushings test as well as the scope and then if none of those things help to find out what's wrong then I really will be stuck to be honest, I don't have £££s to plough into him unfortunately!
 
Goldenstar said:
Where the inflammatory markers in the blood chronic or acute or both ?
Click to expand...

The notes on the test say "SAA is markedly increased indicating an acute inflammatory response. There is also a hyperglobulinaemia and a mild monocytosis consistent with more chronic inflammation" so I guess both?
 
I'd said much the same but in a more roundabout 'thinking' way Murphy def made it clearer! Was he any better after the hock meds last time? Realistically it would have worn off by now.

If the bone scan didn't pick up anything back wise I wouldn't bother xraying for KS.
 
ester said:
I'd said much the same but in a more roundabout 'thinking' way Murphy def made it clearer! Was he any better after the hock meds last time? Realistically it would have worn off by now.

If the bone scan didn't pick up anything back wise I wouldn't bother xraying for KS.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought, plus he doesn't have any pain in that region and can bend practically in half when i do his carrot stretches, he can touch his hip with ease on both sides and hold for 5 seconds so i would have thought if his spine was hurting then he wouldn't be able to do this..

Yeah i'd say he was but this was back in January and he had been out of work since October so when he was brought back into work he was a bit livelier, I didn't push him though, it was a very slow process! This lethargy definitely feels the same as what we went through this time last year so either he needs remedicating or the ulcers have come back or both! maybe I need to look to a more permanent solution for the hocks, the vets didn't give it as an option as the arthritis was only mild in the first place.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top